mogbad Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, teddybeararmy said: We were in the hole by the time of the fans forum, the only way out was promotion (highly unlikely at that point) or the stadium sale. Why wasn't it mentioned to ease fans worries at the time. As I said it's very concerning & as you say he could quite easily have said "We have measures in place & FFP/P&S shouldn't be a problem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Minton said: Except when we sold the goods to the EFL, we asked them to check our goods were in date and they accepted that they were and signed a document to that effect. Only to later come back and claim that they have changed their mind. Which from a legal standpoint is wrong. That's like saying if you smuggled drugs across a border, and customs gives you the OK (because they didn't find the drugs), they are no longer permitted to confiscate the drugs or punish you for smuggling them. We have no idea what basis the club used to "get away" with their creative accounting, and on what basis the EFL said it was OK. It's quite possible the EFL aren't acting in good faith, but with what we know (i.e. bugger all), there's no way to say who's in the right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minton Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, bobness said: That's like saying if you smuggled drugs across a border, and customs gives you the OK (because they didn't find the drugs), they are no longer permitted to confiscate the drugs or punish you for smuggling them. We have no idea what basis the club used to "get away" with their creative accounting, and on what basis the EFL said it was OK. It's quite possible the EFL aren't acting in good faith, but with what we know (i.e. bugger all), there's no way to say who's in the right here. No the equivalent would be bringing drugs back through customs, declaring them, customs signing off on them and telling you it is ok to do it, but months down the line deciding that they actually aren't ok with it and trying to punish you retrospectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, teddybeararmy said: We were in the hole by the time of the fans forum, the only way out was promotion (highly unlikely at that point) or the stadium sale. Why wasn't it mentioned to ease fans worries at the time. It suggests DC may not have had a clue of the latter solution, and only discovered the loophole when it was already too late. Which is surprising, considering he's surrounded himself with experienced football professionals... On a separate note, I think Bruce wanted out because he saw the writing on the walls. I know it's not a popular opinion on here (because we're supposed to believe Newcastle randomly approached him), but if you were Bruce and witnessed how poorly the club was being run, wouldn't you be looking for opportunities elsewhere? Especially when there's only half a year left on your contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Minton said: No the equivalent would be bringing drugs back through customs, declaring them, customs signing off on them and telling you it is ok to do it, but months down the line deciding that they actually aren't ok with it and trying to punish you retrospectively. Haven't the EFL alleged that there is "new evidence"? Which would indicate the club wasn't exactly forthcoming. Not saying it's the case, but I think that's what the EFL have said. Edited February 25, 2020 by bobness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, bobness said: On a separate note, I think Bruce wanted out because he saw the writing on the walls. I know it's not a popular opinion on here (because we're supposed to believe Newcastle randomly approached him), but if you were Bruce and witnessed how poorly the club was being run, wouldn't you be looking for opportunities elsewhere? Especially when there's only half a year left on your contract? I don't for a minute think Bruce was that naive that he didn't know the clubs situation prior to accepting the job. He may well have got disillusioned with some other aspect of the job, but surely he would have known the financial constraints we were under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oz_owl Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, bobness said: On a separate note, I think Bruce wanted out because he saw the writing on the walls. I know it's not a popular opinion on here (because we're supposed to believe Newcastle randomly approached him), but if you were Bruce and witnessed how poorly the club was being run, wouldn't you be looking for opportunities elsewhere? Especially when there's only half a year left on your contract? There's a chance you're right, but it's pure speculation based on no observable facts. I don't believe any quotes exist from Bruce that would suggest any situation occurred other than Newcastle made an approach and he felt he had to give managing his boyhood team another go. So it's just made up, regardless of whether it's unpopular or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mighty wednesday Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, mogbad said: If the documents were in place the club/DC didn't necessarily have to undertake the sale process & they may have been put in place as a last resort should we need to get out of a FFP/P&S hole. However the fact that it all seemed to be done as a last minute exercise is concerning & doesn't indicate to me that it was a pre-planned process. I'm personally not feeling confident on the arbitration outcome. I've thought this for a while. It would explain why DC said we would be in trouble at the fans forum. He would not want to cause disquiet at that time if it was unnecessary. I know that the threat of FFP trouble caused disquiet but a rather different kind of disquiet to the one we have seen over the fact that we are perceived by many not to own our ground any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Concrete Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, bobness said: It suggests DC may not have had a clue of the latter solution, and only discovered the loophole when it was already too late. Which is surprising, considering he's surrounded himself with experienced football professionals... On a separate note, I think Bruce wanted out because he saw the writing on the walls. I know it's not a popular opinion on here (because we're supposed to believe Newcastle randomly approached him), but if you were Bruce and witnessed how poorly the club was being run, wouldn't you be looking for opportunities elsewhere? Especially when there's only half a year left on your contract? Totally agree, I used to think Bruce was just a snake who denied any knowledge of even being linked with the barcodes before he jumped ship. Maybe now looking at it he was jumping a sinking ship and saw the crash before anyone else did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogbad Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, bobness said: Haven't the EFL alleged that there is "new evidence"? Which would indicate the club wasn't exactly forthcoming. Not saying it's the case, but I think that's what the EFL have said. Yes, the basis of the EFL'S charge is that they are in possession of further evidence. We don't know whether the new evidence is from the club or a 3rd party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, oz_owl said: There's a chance you're right, but it's pure speculation based on no observable facts. I don't believe any quotes exist from Bruce that would suggest any situation occurred other than Newcastle made an approach and he felt he had to give managing his boyhood team another go. So it's just made up, regardless of whether it's unpopular or otherwise. 100% made up, and driven by my confirmation bias. Bruce has publicly said he is following his dream of managing his boyhood club, but to me there was an air of diplomacy about it. It was mentioned on here that Bruce stated that "promises weren't kept", but I'm not sure how accurate that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mighty wednesday Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, bobness said: Haven't the EFL alleged that there is "new evidence"? Which would indicate the club wasn't exactly forthcoming. Not saying it's the case, but I think that's what the EFL have said. They did say that shortly after we said we had got evidence of permission. I would assume that they have shown the new evidence to us and we are still convinced, and Nick de Marco seemingly agreed with us, that we are in the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hookowl said: I don't for a minute think Bruce was that naive that he didn't know the clubs situation prior to accepting the job. He may well have got disillusioned with some other aspect of the job, but surely he would have known the financial constraints we were under. My conspiracy theory wasn't surrounding our financial constraints as much as it was the shambles of our operations, which he only witnessed first hand after he signed. For what it's worth, as an experienced manager, I was surprised he accepted a one-year contract. When I heard he was signing, I was delighted, and thought DC had finally learned something. But was then surprised to discover it was another one of DC's one-year contracts. I imagined someone with Bruce's pedigree would've commanded a longer-term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMacLean Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, bobness said: It suggests DC may not have had a clue of the latter solution, and only discovered the loophole when it was already too late. Which is surprising, considering he's surrounded himself with experienced football professionals... On a separate note, I think Bruce wanted out because he saw the writing on the walls. I know it's not a popular opinion on here (because we're supposed to believe Newcastle randomly approached him), but if you were Bruce and witnessed how poorly the club was being run, wouldn't you be looking for opportunities elsewhere? Especially when there's only half a year left on your contract? Looks very much like Chansiri saw what Mel Morris did at Derby very late on. Nothing wrong with it and probably barely any hassle if it goes in the next years accounts which aren't delayed. Wouldn't have helped immediately with FFP but think honesty was needed that at somepoint we'd have to take a slap on the wrist to get sorted out going forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Johnny Concrete said: Totally agree, I used to think Bruce was just a snake who denied any knowledge of even being linked with the barcodes before he jumped ship. Maybe now looking at it he was jumping a sinking ship and saw the crash before anyone else did? Think Bruce leaving for Newcastle was a bit of both of seeing we were not likely to be involved in promotion battle and Newcastle needing a manager. Bet he didn't fancy a 2-3 years at least rebuilding job. Think biggest reason he came here was we offered him well above the going rate in wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogbad Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, the mighty wednesday said: They did say that shortly after we said we had got evidence of permission. I would assume that they have shown the new evidence to us and we are still convinced, and Nick de Marco seemingly agreed with us, that we are in the right. It could depend on whether there were any conditions attached to the permission given by the EFL. They might have said "based on the information supplied we accept the accounts inclusive of the stadium sale, however should any further information come to light that casts doubt on the accuracy of the information supplied we reserve the right to investigate & instigate disciplinary proceedings where we see fit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, the mighty wednesday said: I've thought this for a while. It would explain why DC said we would be in trouble at the fans forum. He would not want to cause disquiet at that time if it was unnecessary. I know that the threat of FFP trouble caused disquiet but a rather different kind of disquiet to the one we have seen over the fact that we are perceived by many not to own our ground any more. Come on 100% of deals are signed off at the very last minute. You just cant sign off a deal at any other time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, matthefish2002 said: Think Bruce leaving for Newcastle was a bit of both of seeing we were not likely to be involved in promotion battle and Newcastle needing a manager. Bet he didn't fancy a 2-3 years at least rebuilding job. Think biggest reason he came here was we offered him well above the going rate in wages. Good point. Might've played a big role. Which only begs the question: what happened to that budget after he foooked off to Newcastle? If we had a monster budget for a manager, why did it take so long to replace him, and with a manager who's probably on substantially less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, bobness said: Good point. Might've played a big role. Which only begs the question: what happened to that budget after he foooked off to Newcastle? If we had a monster budget for a manager, why did it take so long to replace him, and with a manager who's probably on substantially less... Not only Bruces big wages but he also brought along 2 coaches with him which have not been replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAnotherShez Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, bobness said: Good point. Might've played a big role. Which only begs the question: what happened to that budget after he foooked off to Newcastle? If we had a monster budget for a manager, why did it take so long to replace him, and with a manager who's probably on substantially less... I suspect not everyone wants to come here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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