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Clubs demand Sheffield Wednesday points deduction


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1 hour ago, oz_owl said:

 

The similarity is the sale of stadiums.  If there weren't slight differences within that realm then they wouldn't be similar, they'd be the same.  :rolleyes:

But it’s not similar. Hence why the charge is different. :rolleyes:

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I don't think it will be more than we got. So the max you will get is maybe 6-9 points. 

 

Whole thing is a farce & i hope we are not one of the clubs pushing for it. 

 

Im all for controls on spending & wages. But do it for everyone not just a select few. Make a transfer & salary cap. 

 

FFP is just a way of keeping the big clubs at the top. None of the smaller clubs now can spend their way to glory. 

 

There is no way that our dear friends aston villa should be able to spend 80-100 million & get away with it while others get punished for half as much. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Steve Down South said:

Just don’t share your optimism - points deduction of 9-12 points will send us down in my view.

Based on current form, I wouldn’t be confident of staying up even if we only had a 6 point deduction. That would take us down to 38 - based on current form, that gives us a mountain to climb to get to the perceived safety figure of 50.

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1 hour ago, nilsson said:


To be fair I should have said on the last post that I’m not a fan of a FFP, I think it’s flawed but I can see why it was brought in.

 

How are owners going to put aside money for transfers and wages that’s yet to be generated? And does DC actually want to pour millions of his own money in?

 

There was about 40 or 50 cases of football league clubs going into administration between the year 2000 and the introduction of FFP. Since FFP was introduced, Bury and Bolton are the first to go into admin so you could say it’s been a success on that front. 
 

And can you imagine what the championship would be like now without FFP? There’d be some wild transfer fees and wages being thrown about. QPR would still be spending millions... Derby, Forest etc would all be going for it

It would be relatively easy to implement via a simple bank account wherby the money would be put in when players are purchased, that cannot be touched except for wages, the initial transfer fee and any taxation on these.

You sort of made my point when you said 'when that money had not been generated yet'.  Thats the major problem. Club owners are spending money that they haven't got.  My system would require them to have the money before completing the initial transaction. 

Now you may wonder why anyone would invest money for no return? The simple answer is that they would get a return if the club made a profit because incoming revenue would be going into a seperate account that owners could either collect on or reinvest if they wanted.  This would stop all clubs from getting into debt in the usual way and stop clubs from owing owners tens of millions of pounds.  The only way an owner could collect early would be to sell the clubs players but the money for the initially contracted wages would still be in 'storage' and effectively still an asset of the football club instead of an asset that could be collected by the owner as a means of cutting his losses.   This system would make owners think twice about taking risks of any sort, for instance if he/she set ticket prices so high that fans stopped going, he would be reducing the return on his investment.  If he spends too much on players and isn't successful he is never going to get his money back.  In short it puts the risk at the club owners door rather than the fans, the banks and as you said the inland revenue (the uk taxpayers). 

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11 minutes ago, Anlaby Owl said:

It would be relatively easy to implement via a simple bank account wherby the money would be put in when players are purchased, that cannot be touched except for wages, the initial transfer fee and any taxation on these.

You sort of made my point when you said 'when that money had not been generated yet'.  Thats the major problem. Club owners are spending money that they haven't got.  My system would require them to have the money before completing the initial transaction. 

Now you may wonder why anyone would invest money for no return? The simple answer is that they would get a return if the club made a profit because incoming revenue would be going into a seperate account that owners could either collect on or reinvest if they wanted.  This would stop all clubs from getting into debt in the usual way and stop clubs from owing owners tens of millions of pounds.  The only way an owner could collect early would be to sell the clubs players but the money for the initially contracted wages would still be in 'storage' and effectively still an asset of the football club instead of an asset that could be collected by the owner as a means of cutting his losses.   This system would make owners think twice about taking risks of any sort, for instance if he/she set ticket prices so high that fans stopped going, he would be reducing the return on his investment.  If he spends too much on players and isn't successful he is never going to get his money back.  In short it puts the risk at the club owners door rather than the fans, the banks and as you said the inland revenue (the uk taxpayers). 


So as an example how would the Jordan Rhodes transfer have worked using these rules? That was reportedly an £8 million transfer payable in instalments of £2 million a year over 4 years with a contract on around 35k a week. Would DC need to put £16 million into this simple back account before he can sign him?

 

Would this new system apply to all purchases (property, ground improvements, training ground etc) or just player purchases?

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12 minutes ago, Anlaby Owl said:

This system would make owners think twice about taking risks of any sort,

That system would stop anyone wanting to buy a football club in the first place.

To 'invest' a large amount of money the returns have to be high due the high risks involved.

Besides which, no one likes being told what they can or cannot do with their own money.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, BrumBlue said:

I don't think it will be more than we got. So the max you will get is maybe 6-9 points. 

 

Whole thing is a farce & i hope we are not one of the clubs pushing for it. 

 

Im all for controls on spending & wages. But do it for everyone not just a select few. Make a transfer & salary cap. 

 

FFP is just a way of keeping the big clubs at the top. None of the smaller clubs now can spend their way to glory. 

 

There is no way that our dear friends aston villa should be able to spend 80-100 million & get away with it while others get punished for half as much. 

 

 

Yeh,but just think of the laughs you lot can have when they get relegated,spending all that to end up back where they were,be funny as F---k.

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48 minutes ago, nilsson said:


So as an example how would the Jordan Rhodes transfer have worked using these rules? That was reportedly an £8 million transfer payable in instalments of £2 million a year over 4 years with a contract on around 35k a week. Would DC need to put £16 million into this simple back account before he can sign him?

 

Would this new system apply to all purchases (property, ground improvements, training ground etc) or just player purchases?

Exactly, the owner couldn't strip assets to get his money back.  It would be a simple investment and as with all basic investments, if the company looses money, theres no return.  A bit like bankers, football club owners have for far too long had it both ways.  Make bad decisions, run the club badly, no growth but a big payout at the end of it. 

 

You could compare the two to a sole trader verses a limited company.  A sole trader has to make the right decisions he is solely responsible for any debt his company incurs and has to be approved for any loans in the first place.  A limited company can ride roughshod over any creditors and the directors can leave that company in a right old mess but still come up smelling of roses. 

 

Someone else said that no one would invest in football clubs.  I don't believe this would be the case because if you ran the club properly, developed players and sold them at a profit, each player sold would represent a profit for the owner/investor.. Promotion would create a profit and it would be a clear profit for the investor because all wages and transfers would already be covered (not still owed).  This would undoubtedly deter a certain type of investor who wanted to gamble with the club and its assets at no risk to himself but personally i only see this as a positive. 

Edited by Anlaby Owl
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15 hours ago, prowl said:

The decision isn't up to the other clubs. It will be made by the independent panel. It's independent, not owned, controlled or governed by the other clubs.

 

It's proved it's independence already in all the cases that have gone before it by being more lenient than EFL wanted.


They're independent in the sense that they aren't employed by the EFL but I believe the disciplinary panel is made up of chairmen/officers of EFL clubs.

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8 hours ago, Anlaby Owl said:

Exactly, the owner couldn't strip assets to get his money back.  It would be a simple investment and as with all basic investments, if the company looses money, theres no return.  A bit like bankers, football club owners have for far too long had it both ways.  Make bad decisions, run the club badly, no growth but a big payout at the end of it. 

 

You could compare the two to a sole trader verses a limited company.  A sole trader has to make the right decisions he is solely responsible for any debt his company incurs and has to be approved for any loans in the first place.  A limited company can ride roughshod over any creditors and the directors can leave that company in a right old mess but still come up smelling of roses. 

 

Someone else said that no one would invest in football clubs.  I don't believe this would be the case because if you ran the club properly, developed players and sold them at a profit, each player sold would represent a profit for the owner/investor.. Promotion would create a profit and it would be a clear profit for the investor because all wages and transfers would already be covered (not still owed).  This would undoubtedly deter a certain type of investor who wanted to gamble with the club and its assets at no risk to himself but personally i only see this as a positive. 

It would deter any kind of investor...good,bad or indifferent.

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10 hours ago, BrumBlue said:

I don't think it will be more than we got. So the max you will get is maybe 6-9 points. 

 

Whole thing is a farce & i hope we are not one of the clubs pushing for it. 

 

Im all for controls on spending & wages. But do it for everyone not just a select few. Make a transfer & salary cap. 

 

FFP is just a way of keeping the big clubs at the top. None of the smaller clubs now can spend their way to glory. 

 

There is no way that our dear friends aston villa should be able to spend 80-100 million & get away with it while others get punished for half as much. 

 

 

I personally think ours will be more. You breached spending and was given a 9 point deduction. We in trouble for allegedly putting our stadium in the previous years accounts to avoid the punishment that you received. So if proven we will receive the 9 points for the breach on spending plus extra for fiddling our accounts. I genuinely believe it will be around 12 

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