Westwood & Hutchinson

[Rogers]

Give Hutch the managers job and Westwood his assistant, see how they get on

[Guest LondonOwl313]

2 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I'm constantly bemused by the complete naivety and lack of realism (and in some cases self-righteousness) when it comes to demands for the club to conduct it's business in that kind of way. As we don't know what has (or hasn't) happened, then how can we so earnestly provide counsel on the best way to deal with it? 

Dude what are you on about? The point is that nobody knows what’s gone off so it needs clearing up in some fashion. I mean Westwood has 18 months left on his contract.. so do we assume that 1. Nobody will come in for him because only we would pay him what he earns here (owlstalk myth 1) and 2. He will refuse to sit on the bench ever because he thinks he’s too good to do so (owlstalk myth 2). That implies he’s going to be sat at home until the end of his contract and every time Dawson drops a ball, which is fairly frequently, fans are going to ask where he is. It needs clearing up one way or the other, we don’t need every detail, just clarify what it means. Other professional sports teams don’t operate in this way. Would suggest that it’s you who’s naive to think this is a healthy, normal and sustainable position for the club to be in

[DJMortimer]

39 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Dude what are you on about? The point is that nobody knows what’s gone off so it needs clearing up in some fashion. I mean Westwood has 18 months left on his contract.. so do we assume that 1. Nobody will come in for him because only we would pay him what he earns here (owlstalk myth 1) and 2. He will refuse to sit on the bench ever because he thinks he’s too good to do so (owlstalk myth 2). That implies he’s going to be sat at home until the end of his contract and every time Dawson drops a ball, which is fairly frequently, fans are going to ask where he is. It needs clearing up one way or the other, we don’t need every detail, just clarify what it means. Other professional sports teams don’t operate in this way. Would suggest that it’s you who’s naive to think this is a healthy, normal and sustainable position for the club to be in

 

You make a lot of assumptions with the only evidence required being your own certainty. The idea that this is some kind of unique situation to this club at this time is so far from the reality of competitive sport that there seems little point in my attempting to rationalise much further.

 

But it's only fair to provide at least some evidence. So, at Wednesday alone in just the last three decades, I can think of numerous examples of feuds and power struggles that were not discussed publicly at the time and in a few cases are still mysterious to some degree. For example, punch ups between Ron Atkinson and John Sheridan, then again with Paolo Di Canio, Trevor Francis and the infamous 'mole', the dissent caused by the old guard being eased out by David Pleat, Di Canio talking of cliques in the dressing room that would barely communicate with one another, his relationship with Danny Wilson and Dave Richards and the exact circumstances of how the Italian came to leave the club after the Paul Alcock debacle, Gilles de Bilde scoffing at an element of the squad who were openly taking the piss as we meekly surrendered our Premier League status, Paul Jewell and Chris Turner alluding to a number of players who were a bad influence on the younger pros we were forced to rely on at those times, the breakdown of the relationship between Paul Sturrock and Dave Allen, a similar situation between Milan Mandaric and Gary Megson, the civil war in the boardroom that led to Allen's exit, Carlos Carvalhal hinting at some unknown element that resulted in the slump before he left, the widespread disappearance of senior players under Jos Luhukay etc.

 

Do you ever listen to interviews or read sports biographies? It's by no means restricted to football, never mind just Wednesday for the last few weeks. This stuff is relatively routine and rarely discussed openly at the time for very good reasons.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by DJMortimer

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

You make a lot of assumptions with the only evidence required being your own certainty. The idea that this is some kind of unique situation to this club at this time is so far from the reality of competitive sport that there seems little point in my attempting to rationalise much further.

 

But it's only fair to provide at least some evidence. So, at Wednesday alone in just the last three decades, I can think of numerous examples of feuds and power struggles that were not discussed publicly at the time and in a few cases are still mysterious to some degree. For example, punch ups between Ron Atkinson and John Sheridan, then again with Paolo Di Canio, Trevor Francis and the infamous 'mole', the dissent caused by the old guard being eased out by David Pleat, Di Canio talking of cliques in the dressing room that would barely communicate with one another, his relationship with Danny Wilson and Dave Richards and the exact circumstances of how the Italian came to leave the club after the Paul Alcock debacle, Gilles de Bilde scoffing at an element of the squad who were openly taking the piss as we meekly surrendered our Premier League status, Paul Jewell and Chris Turner alluding to a number of players who were a bad influence on the younger pros we were forced to rely on at those times, the breakdown of the relationship between Paul Sturrock and Dave Allen, a similar situation between Milan Mandaric and Gary Megson, the civil war in the boardroom that led to Allen's exit, Carlos Carvalhal hinting at some unknown element that resulted in the slump before he left, the widespread disappearance of senior players under Jos Luhukay etc.

 

Do you ever listen to interviews or read sports biographies? It's by no means restricted to football, never mind just Wednesday for the last few weeks. This stuff is relatively routine and rarely discussed openly at the time for very good reasons.

 

 

Most of the things you mention were swiftly resolved though one way or another. We don’t know the full details even now.. I’m not suggesting that Monk should spill all on his relationship with Westwood and Hutchinson, I’m saying he should clarify whether he intends to pick them ever again. 
 

This applies to any business not just football. Do you think if I have a disagreement with my boss and I’m suspended from work that my boss will tell everyone else that I might be doing some work or I might not. What good is that? People don’t need to know the details on what the disagreement was about but they do need to know whether I’m going to be working there anymore. A few years ago, the place where I work a lad got done for forgery, obviously at the time when it was investigated, nobody wants to say someone’s guilty without due process.. it was a complete joke for a few weeks where nobody was able to plan work either way. I’d imagine that unless with the squad, Monk takes a different approach to what he does with the media which is possible, then it’s the same situation where nobody knows whether they’re coming or going with this

[DJMortimer]

5 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Most of the things you mention were swiftly resolved though one way or another. We don’t know the full details even now.. I’m not suggesting that Monk should spill all on his relationship with Westwood and Hutchinson, I’m saying he should clarify whether he intends to pick them ever again. 
 

This applies to any business not just football. Do you think if I have a disagreement with my boss and I’m suspended from work that my boss will tell everyone else that I might be doing some work or I might not. What good is that? People don’t need to know the details on what the disagreement was about but they do need to know whether I’m going to be working there anymore. A few years ago, the place where I work a lad got done for forgery, obviously at the time when it was investigated, nobody wants to say someone’s guilty without due process.. it was a complete joke for a few weeks where nobody was able to plan work either way. I’d imagine that unless with the squad, Monk takes a different approach to what he does with the media which is possible, then it’s the same situation where nobody knows whether they’re coming or going with this

 

I think you are rather misunderstanding the duties and responsibilities of chairman, manager and supporter.

 

What you are suggesting is logically only a short step away from the club seeking your tacit consent for fundamental operational decisions.

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I think you are rather misunderstanding the duties and responsibilities of chairman, manager and supporter.

 

What you are suggesting is logically only a short step away from the club seeking your tacit consent for fundamental operational decisions.

 

I don’t see how you’re drawing that conclusion.. if it was me who was manager, on face value I’d be picking them but I don’t know the full details and that’s not the point. I don’t need to consent to them playing or not playing, but if you’re paying your money to go then it’s good to know. 
 

Interested to know what he says to the squad.. like does he say Kieren and Sam won’t be here today or what. Or are they training fully and slagging him off to the group for being unfairly treated. It’s just not a healthy situation to be in.. if they’re finished at the club then so be it but it’s bad to leave it open ended for a long time. It was the same with Abdi, basically didn’t hear anything for the whole duration then gets released

[DJMortimer]

Just now, LondonOwl313 said:

I don’t see how you’re drawing that conclusion.. if it was me who was manager, on face value I’d be picking them but I don’t know the full details and that’s not the point. I don’t need to consent to them playing or not playing, but if you’re paying your money to go then it’s good to know. 
 

Interested to know what he says to the squad.. like does he say Kieren and Sam won’t be here today or what. Or are they training fully and slagging him off to the group for being unfairly treated. It’s just not a healthy situation to be in.. if they’re finished at the club then so be it but it’s bad to leave it open ended for a long time. It was the same with Abdi, basically didn’t hear anything for the whole duration then gets released

 

To paraphrase your argument, "Monk is making squad decisions that I don't like or agree with and I want to know why." Is that really part of his responsibilities to the fans, especially if misconduct might be part of the reason? 

 

The players will obviously know what is going on, whether they've been specifically addressed about it or not. And if there is a serious problem, then I'm sure some long-term decisions will have been made and therefore it is not open-ended where it actually matters. But footballers can't usually be dismissed or made redundant like people in other lines of work, so immediate closure may not be possible.

 

Even assuming that the popular narrative is true (despite the evidence being no more than circumstantial), I fail to see why it would be advantageous to confirm that this or that guy will not be considered for the first team. That only leads to more questions, more speculation and more harsh judgements and neither would it be conducive to potentially attracting a buyer for a player if that is practical.

 

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, billyblack said:

I dont know, i wasnt there.  Its between Monk and Hutchinson. If Monk thinks hes crossed the line the fair enough. Who are we to say otherwise.

 

I'm not sure I have a great deal of faith in a number of decisions the manager is making. If we can't question that then what is the point in discussing anything at all that we can't control?

[Ante's Bubbly]

On 14/02/2020 at 11:22, The only way is S6 said:

 

I couldn't resist asking him what's going off at S6 with him & Westwood.

 

You have more self restraint obviously. 

No, unfortunately I haven't either Luckily I am at work early doors so don't get to see him and my son and his mates are at that shy age!

 

[mcmigo]

On 14/02/2020 at 17:29, Suzuki_San said:

I have been told that Hutchinson's house went up for sale 2 days ago...

It is pretty easy to see on rightmove yes. It is for sale . 
 

 

[matthefish2002]

From Monks interview he considers Westwood and Hutchinson a disruptive influence in the dressing room and he is not the first manager to think this.

IMO one reason we are in the mess is we have over indulged players in the past leading to them thinking they are bigger then the club. Obviously I don't know all the details but overall I am giving Monk the benefit of the doubt on this one and would be happy not to see them play for the club again.

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

On 14/02/2020 at 11:43, BIG D said:

Bizarrely I saw Hutch yesterday afternoon trying to hail a cab on Abbeydale Rd. If I’d noticed him sooner I’d have given him a lift. 

 Why didn’t you spin around, do a slow drive-by, pulled up as if you were giving him a lift and then sped off as he approached your car. You’d have been a OT legend if you had managed to get that on dash cam!

[abdiwonderland]

On 14/02/2020 at 09:04, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

Bless his poor little cotton socks.

 

It's a man's game.  Weakness, physical or mental is soon exposed. If he's not up to it , he's not up to it.

 

But he's no fool. I doubt he cares if he plays or not. He'll be happy shovelling the money through his front door each week before another fifa20 tournament on the Xbox.

 

It used to be but certainly isn't anymore.. Its a game for tarts.