Poor Squad Myth

[jrh]

14 minutes ago, McRightSide said:

You are part of the problem.

 

You accept and hold on to mediocrity 

Hahaha. No such thing, don't accept mediocrity. The opposite. I believe that we should be challenging top 2 team never mind about play offs.

 

If we'd have had sensible, gradual and sustainable improvements on the team since Carlos' first season then I believe we would have been in the prem. 

 

Instead we have people like yourself saying everyone is not good enough. Get rid of them all when realistically we can't spend money to bring a whole new squad in and what we are going to get in the free market is unlikely to be better than some of the very capable players we already have. 

 

We have some good players. Use them properly and we would be fine. Simple.

[Luke]

Absolute rubbish

 

The players have failed time and time again

 

Can't keep blaming managers for the players f#ckups 

 

Players are far to protected today

 

And its about time they are getting called out and need to realise that the time of them taking the p!55 out of the club and fans has ended 

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

31 minutes ago, should know better said:

Certainly Wilder would have the squad in the top six, I'm sure some other managers might too.

There is also the myth that changing the manager does not work but across the city they had numerous managers before Warnock and a large number after before finding Wilder.

Don't like Mccarthy or Warnock because of their attitude towards us, in the same vein we have had some issues with Karl Robinson but his teams play attractive football.

Had thought of Dean Smith when Carlos was struggling and losing to Bolton but most Wednesday fans agreed he was not good enough.

Finding  the right manager is the most important task.

Wilder has a squad that is incredibly fit with players that rarely get injured and thus he plays at an incredible tempo.  His goalkeeper, back 5 and midfield 3 have hardly had an injury for 3 years.

 

What on earth makes you look at our squad and think that Wilder could get that out of our players when they have constantly proved that the one thing you can rely upon them to do is get injured.

 

Also, the real myth is our fans thinking that Wilder has got United promoted with a rubbish set of players just because he didn't pay much money for them.

 

Henderson is a fantastic keeper.  Egan and O'Connell have barely put a foot wrong for 2 years.  Stevens was as good last season as any full back I've seen at this level.

 

Norwood and Fleck are superb players and Billy Sharp was that elusive 20 goal striker that we cannot get.

 

Our squad is aging, lacks athleticism and is injury prone.

[brando]

7 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

Only people with blind faith could believe this squad is good because the facts do not suggest they are:-

 

Westwood - bombed out by 2 managers now.  When he has played the amount of mistakes he has made has gone beyond acceptable. His age suggests he must now be beyond his best. INJURY PRONE

Dawson - Has potential but making costly mistakes.

Wildsmith - Isn't even looking good for the U'23's.  Making terrible errors, nothing to suggest he can cut it in The Championship.

 

DO NOT SEE HOW ANYBODY CAN SAY THE ABOVE REPRESENTS GOOD GOALKEEPING OPTIONS

 

Palmer - Good servant, average Championship full back.

Fox - if you believe the last couple of months, he is an average Championship full back.  if you believe the rest of his SWFC career, he is out of his depth.

Odubajo - Did well at Hull but got a SERIOUS INJURY and has looked a liability for us.

Urhoghide - A young lad with potential.  We've seen numerous players like this in the last 20 years.  Might make it at this level, but probably won't.

 

DO NOT SEE HOW ANYBODY CAN SAY THE ABOVE REPRESENTS GOOD FULL BACK OPTIONS

 

Lees - Played a few hundred Championship matches and usually to a good standard.

Iorfa - In general this season has looked like a good player this season.

Borner - Up until the last few matches has looked a good player.

 

PERSONALLY I THINK CENTRE HALF IS A REASONABLY STRONG AREA FOR US. MOST CHAMPIONSHIP MANAGERS WOULD BE HAPPY.

 

Bannan - Good player

Hutch - bombed out by 2 managers and INJURY PRONE

Lee - A shadow of the previous player we had after SERIOUS INJURY

Pelepussy - not good enough

Luongo - Constantly picking up niggling injuries since he joined.

 

DO NOT SEE HOW ANYBODY CAN SAY THE ABOVE REPRESENTS GOOD MIDFIELD OPTIONS

 

Harris - Started off well, form dipped.

Murphy - Started off poorly got better.

Forestieri - We all know how good he is by constantly injured

Reach - Opinions on here will be mixed but certainly capable of doing a job.

Windass - Jury out

Cruz - Jury Out

 

On balance, you'd have to say that most Championship managers would be very happy with the wide midfield/wide forward options.

 

Fletcher - Good but injury prone

Wickham - Good but injury prone

Winnall - - Never the same since serious injury

Nuhiu - Scores 1 in 5 at this level

Rhodes - In his fourth season with the club and never performed.

 

DO NOT SEE HOW ANYBODY CAN SAY THE ABOVE REPRESENTS GOOD STRIKER OPTIONS.  However, if Fletcher and Wickham are fit they're as good as anybody.

 

I really do not see how anybody can think that the above is a good Championship squad that should be in the top 6.  At the same time, we have far more quality than the bottom teams.

 

To me it is the sort of squad that could come in the top 6 if you got far better luck with injuries than the histories of these players suggest is even remotely likely.  The squad has too many players that are either injury prone or have had a serious injury.  The squad has the highest age in the division.

 

It just doesn't look like a squad with the hunger and fitness required to get out of this division over a marathon of 46 matches.

 

 

 

you sure about Nuhui getting 1 in 5 ? suprises me that pal,think he is absolutely awful,and people who call him an impact sub are talking shybo,him and the rest of the old guard need to be eased out,i know its not easy because i don't believe we have any player's who other sides wan't

[NeonLeon]

10 minutes ago, jrh said:

We have some good players. Use them properly and we would be fine. Simple.

In the main Monk has since we played Bristol and went 3rd. So why the collapse? 

[fudge27]

The thing is that there is not a great deal in difference in terms of quality across the division. Its the tactics to some degree, but how well you motivate the players that is the crux of everything. 

 

If the intangibles like the desire, love of the area, relationship with fans, work rate, motivation or belief aren't there you get turned over on a weekend. 

 

The difficulty we have is we don't see the whole picture and this whole things will come out stuff. 

 

I can accept losing to a better team. I struggle when we are out grafted but that comes back to the intangibles and recruiting the right type of player 

[21/4/91]

Monk is not a good motivator. He doesn't seem to have learned that you shouldn't publicly criticize players, or use words like "embarrassing". He also said that there were some players who shouldn't be at the club; what sort of a message does that send to the players he dropped from subsequent squads - Jordan Rhodes, Sam Winnall etc? How do you think those players feel right now? They are human beings. Being publicly castigated by a manager is not good for anyone. Wilder would never do this. Nor would any consistently successful manager - in any walk of life.

 

Those saying that our squad are good enough for the top six, even the top two - potentially - are correct.

 

Those advocating mass clear-outs of players are just reacting in anger and not analysing the situation. (That's one of the functions of football, though - it allows people to vent anger in an irrational and badly-thought out way).

 

It's not even Monk's "fault", he's conforming to managerial type - blaming other people (publicly) when things don't go well. Ultimately, it's the owner's responsibility, I suppose. He has made one relatively good managerial appointment and three relatively poor managerial appointments. I hope that Monk leaves in the summer.

 

 

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

34 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

They aren’t bad, and cost next to nothing by Championship standards

Lee has had a serious injury.  he is not the same player now.

Hutch is always injured.

Luongo has done nothing but pick up injuries.

 

Most managers want to play a midfield 3.  no idea how you think any manager can get a consistent 3 out of those lot.

Edited February 13, 2020 by HirstWhoScoredIt

[deano]

Not read the post but agree with the title. A good manager makes all the difference. 

[Lee A]

Central midfield is horrendous.  How can anybody say otherwise?  You will struggle to find a squad with such a lack of creativity, goals or even attacking intent from that area. 

 

Bannan has scored a handful of goals in 5 years and now seems to want to play centre half, his performances get worse by the week, silly passes and hopeful long balls from deep instead of getting up the field and running the show, that's not down to Monk, Bannan has been guilty of this for years.  Been a decent signing of course but we can't run things through him any more, we're arguably better when he doesn't play. 

 

Lee is finished, he's a very talented player, perhaps the best all round footballer we've had since the PL days, was worth a 1 year gamble due to the embargo this season but he's done, needs to go. 

 

Hutchinson is still capable of doing a job if and when he's available, which is still too rare due to injuries but there are clearly other issues with him aswell.  Needs replacing. 

 

Luongo is clearly a tidy player and looks capable of getting a few goals and supporting the attack, but again, never available.  

 

Joey is, as we all know, simply miles away from the standard we need.

 

This area of the field is non existent, its half the reason the forwards are useless, because all they get is long balls from the defence, if they can't get the ball down, the midfield is nowhere to be seen in terms of support and the opposing team deal with us far too easily, theres never a 2nd wave to our "attacks" its bang a long ball and retreat.

 

Its also why the defence is under so much pressure, because the midfield is so effortlessly overrun.

Every week we "lose the midfield battle" and as a result we lose games. 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Lee A

[NorthernOwl]

41 minutes ago, McRightSide said:

You are part of the problem.

 

You accept and hold on to mediocrity 

 

It's worth bearing in mind that if we have a complete clear out any replacements will be frees, loans and very cheap players.

 

That market is typically full of mediocre players as we have seen with recent additions.

 

Yes there are few if any out of contract players that we should be retaining. But let's face it they are most likely to be replaced with more mediocrity. That is simply where we are as a club right now.

[NorthernOwl]

36 minutes ago, jrh said:

Hahaha. No such thing, don't accept mediocrity. The opposite. I believe that we should be challenging top 2 team never mind about play offs.

 

If we'd have had sensible, gradual and sustainable improvements on the team since Carlos' first season then I believe we would have been in the prem. 

 

Instead we have people like yourself saying everyone is not good enough. Get rid of them all when realistically we can't spend money to bring a whole new squad in and what we are going to get in the free market is unlikely to be better than some of the very capable players we already have. 

 

We have some good players. Use them properly and we would be fine. Simple.

 

I think you are largely right here. We know quite a few need moving on. And luckily that largely corresponds to those out of contract in the summer.

 

But we do still have some decent players who can do well in the right set up. I don't buy the argument that the whole squad is rotten. It's a few individuals at most.

[gurujuan]

42 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said:

Absolute rubbish

 

The players have failed time and time again

 

Can't keep blaming managers for the players f#ckups 

 

Players are far to protected today

 

And its about time they are getting called out and need to realise that the time of them taking the p!55 out of the club and fans has ended 

Not true, history suggests, that all clubs get rid of the manager first

[gurujuan]

8 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

I think you are largely right here. We know quite a few need moving on. And luckily that largely corresponds to those out of contract in the summer.

 

But we do still have some decent players who can do well in the right set up. I don't buy the argument that the whole squad is rotten. It's a few individuals at most.

and this has been a process that started last summer, and as you say, will continue this summer. The only thing that has happened is, Monk, a manager with no management skills, has tried to cover his own shortcomings, by gobbling off about the players Talk about shooting yourself in the foot

[Dexter Morgan]

1 hour ago, jrh said:

It's really starting to frustrate me that many are convinced that a clear out is the only way forward. 

 

Even in the last year we have shown that we can be more than capable of competing in this league. Under Bruce we made a late play off push from looking like we had no chance and 8 games ago we were 3rd in the league. 

 

This whole downfall has been a result of countless bad decisions, tactics and problems caused by Monk. 

 

Even look at last night. We go to 3 at the back which you can make a strong argument for being a good formation with us I think most people with common sense would have had Iorfa at the right of the 3, Lees central and Borner left. Iorfa ended up being the central one more often than not and its just ridiculous. Then the left wing back. Well just wow. I prefer Forestieri on the left but on the left with limiting his defensive responsibility as much as possible. I actually thought he did an okay job to be honest and from left wing back still looked the most likely to make something happen in the first half. 

 

As for the players not being good enough. Well let's just have a look:

 

Goalkeepers: Dawson, Westwood both very good and Wildsmith not bad at all (having never really had a run of games). 

Centre Back: Lees, Iorfa and Borner have all been rubbish of late granted but have all shown they can be very good at this level. 

 

Full backs: Palmer is very steady, I have never rated Fox but you can't fault him the last couple of months. Still believe this position needs strengthening. 

 

Centre Mids: Bannan, Lee, Hutchinson, Luongo are all very very good players. They all have great ability and if instructed right then there won't be many better groups of 4 in the league. 

 

Wingers: Harris has been quality, yes the last month and a bit has been hard but most of what he has done when he gets the ball has still been pretty effective and he is dangerous. Forestieri (striker/left winger but I'd play him in the left side which is why I've put him here) is quality just lacks a bit of discipline at times. Reach's quality isn't the best but will always put you a shift in. 

 

Strikers: Fletcher obviously injured but has been quality this season. Da Cruz has looked very good so far, good touch, uses the ball well but it's difficult for anyone in the team currently because we are creating nothing. Rhodes has to be given chances to score and again in a team like this it's pointless because he isn't going to pick the ball up deep run at people and score. Winnall-the same. In my opinion Nuhiu should never start but is useful in the last 15 mins of games because he's just difficult (personally wouldn't renew the contract). Wickham has obvious class, needs some games and service. 

 

Put it this way if Chris Wilder had our squad I think we'd be doing pretty well. 

 

 

but what if most of those players are sick of treading water, know that the club is broken and can’t be bothered anymore, talent is only useful when you apply it 

[thesouthowl]

53 minutes ago, brando said:

you sure about Nuhui getting 1 in 5 ? suprises me that pal,think he is absolutely awful,and people who call him an impact sub are talking shybo,him and the rest of the old guard need to be eased out,i know its not easy because i don't believe we have any player's who other sides wan't

 

Actually he has a better record than that, it's 1 in 4.97 for us and to put it in perspective Connor Wickham's Palace record is 1 in 5.12

Edited February 13, 2020 by thesouthowl

[WalthamOwl]

We have got a crap squad and a manager that hasn’t a clue what to do with them. 

[McRightSide]

1 hour ago, jrh said:

Hahaha. No such thing, don't accept mediocrity. The opposite. I believe that we should be challenging top 2 team never mind about play offs.

 

If we'd have had sensible, gradual and sustainable improvements on the team since Carlos' first season then I believe we would have been in the prem. 

 

Instead we have people like yourself saying everyone is not good enough. Get rid of them all when realistically we can't spend money to bring a whole new squad in and what we are going to get in the free market is unlikely to be better than some of the very capable players we already have. 

 

We have some good players. Use them properly and we would be fine. Simple.

Keep telling yourself that.
 

Players need to be gone.

[McRightSide]

27 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

I think you are largely right here. We know quite a few need moving on. And luckily that largely corresponds to those out of contract in the summer.

 

But we do still have some decent players who can do well in the right set up. I don't buy the argument that the whole squad is rotten. It's a few individuals at most.

Fear of the future is also a major problem in our fanbase

[nickswfc]

Agree with the OP, its the same excuses that were used for Jos that are now being used for Monk.

 

Bruce proved us wrong last time and a good manager would get a lot more out of this squad now.