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Beholder

What the f has happened?

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1 hour ago, Beholder said:

Seems far too early to sack monk but this is crazy.

 

His team selections are too bold and it isn't working.

 

Chucking forwards on like confetti isn't gonna work when the basics have gone out of the window. 


Said before this really does remind me of the tail end of the Dave Jones reign. Bonkers selections, apathy, no new ideas, a dressing room lost and a manager who doesn't want to be here. Problem is for Monk is that unless he has something else lined up, he's pretty much done for at this level.

Half of the squad (at least) won't be given new contracts in the summer, so like the manager don't have any skin in the game. Picking on Hutchinson and Westwood is low hanging (but tempting) fruit. I've no doubt they're causing trouble etc, yet maybe it's for a reason. Maybe they know a bad manager when they see one. Or they're bad eggs. Yet how come Foresteri gets life after life?! Where's Reach gone? (If injured apologies).

Then we have the 'Chairman'... There's just so much going on here to pin on one factor. Yet we're in freefall and if Monk won't survive the Summer, why persist? No point keeping faith with a dud.

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56 minutes ago, g-owls said:

Dejphon Chansiri. 

 

That's whats happened. He got away with it for long enough with taxi firms, energy drinks and selling the ground to himself. 

 

Now that he's backed himself into a corner, even the nonsensical ideas aren't fooling the majority anymore. 

 

Anyone expecting him to change will be waiting for ever. He hasn't learned a single thing in the time he's been here and he's not the type to start listening now. 

 

Having to deal with him must be akin to having a seance with Mr Bean. 

 

 

 

Exactly this!  The man admitted from the start that he knows nothing about football.  Anyone sensible, in that position would surely recruit a Managing Director or at least a Director of Football who has deep and positive experience of operating a successful footbal club.  But Chansiri has not had the humility to do so and we all know the outcome.  Unless he sells up (and who the hell is going to pay what he will want, to recoup his losses?), - this club that we all love will only drop further and further.  Certainly relegation this season is a real possibilty, especially if the EFL deduct points in relation to the financial rules.  Even if they don't, there's a real possibility of relegation, in any case, given performances since Boxing Day.

 

I've followed Wednesday since the age of 8 (early in the 60s) and I can't recall ever feeling so despondent as I do now, because the squad, although not the worst in the division, seems unable to motivate themselves to perform.  Even if the manager is not popular amongst the squad, you would at least expect some self respect and effort from the players on a match day.  It's obvious that it's not happening and even when results were better in the first half of the season, there were many occasions when the result was far, far better than the performance.  We scraped through and gained points that performances didn't deserve, - but that's football sometimes.

 

As others have said, the club is in a complete mess from top to bottom and I for one can't see a positive way forward.

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1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

The loss of Fletcher has to be a major factor, but it just highlights the managers one dimensional,approach

the manager's 'one dimensional approach' is due to the 'damaged' squad he inherited, you bring one new loanee in, and another two go 'over the hill'.

our squad is ****ed, hands up who wants to try out in goal or up front next week?

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17 minutes ago, pussface said:


Said before this really does remind me of the tail end of the Dave Jones reign. Bonkers selections, apathy, no new ideas, a dressing room lost and a manager who doesn't want to be here. Problem is for Monk is that unless he has something else lined up, he's pretty much done for at this level.

Half of the squad (at least) won't be given new contracts in the summer, so like the manager don't have any skin in the game. Picking on Hutchinson and Westwood is low hanging (but tempting) fruit. I've no doubt they're causing trouble etc, yet maybe it's for a reason. Maybe they know a bad manager when they see one. Or they're bad eggs. Yet how come Foresteri gets life after life?! Where's Reach gone? (If injured apologies).

Then we have the 'Chairman'... There's just so much going on here to pin on one factor. Yet we're in freefall and if Monk won't survive the Summer, why persist? No point keeping faith with a dud.

Yeah.

 

Scapegoating players isn't only unfair on those players, it creates a toxic environment. 

 

Hutch is probably justified in thinking he is one of the leaders of that team. 

 

To be told he is the main problem (if that happened) is tantamount to destroying the team spirit in one action. 

 

But like you say there are a number of factors.

Edited by Beholder
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We've been in free fall for almost the last 3 years. It all started when Chansiri gave CC that new contract after the Semi-Final loss to Huddersfield. When really we should have brought in somebody else with a new philosophy, given them the proper backing and cleared out players who only suited CC’s system.
Instead, we’ve given big contracts & paid big transfer fees to players who we can’t sell that we’ve never been able to get the best from (financially crippling ourselves in the process) and now if we consider LB, we’re on our 4th manager who has yet to get any long term success from this aging squad – that like all the others has been given limited opportunity to properly ‘rebuild’.
 

The issue is clear, there is no long term plan in place. We’ve gone from quick fix to quick fix ever since May 2017, papering over the cracks being completely ignorant to the future implications of our actions. Total failure to plan for the future and establish what the long term goals are for the club and most importantly how we handle business in the short term to get us there.
 

Chansiri needs to re-evaluate his strategy for managing the club, either appoint people at the director level who know what they are doing or start listening to the people he already employs. Our long term performances on the pitch will only ever be as strong as the foundations behind it and until we can establish a culture to make this work, things will not get any better.
 

In the short term, I don’t think sacking Monk answers any of our problems. Irrespective of whether or not I think he’s the man for the job – whoever we bring in won’t last until we can provide a proper environment for them to be productive. Likewise with buying/loaning more players, until we have a proper system – tactically, strategically, philosophy on how to play just like the manager they are short term quick fixes that offer no long term benefit.
 

We will see what happens in the summer, I expect the inevitable summer clear out (contracts expired or sold for a small fee) as much as it pains me to say it, getting rid of former core high earners; players like Westwood, Lees, Bannan,,Hutchinson, Lee, Forestieri, Fletcher and Rhodes could be crucial to our long term plans. I would not be surprised to see us sell the handful players we do own on longer contracts that have good potential too, Iorfa, Reach.

Then the painful slow rebuild can happen, get everything right behind the scenes, financially stable, create that winning environment so when we do back a manger they have the tools to be successful.

 

WAWAW.

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10 minutes ago, Kevan said:

 

Exactly this!  The man admitted from the start that he knows nothing about football.  Anyone sensible, in that position would surely recruit a Managing Director or at least a Director of Football who has deep and positive experience of operating a successful footbal club.  But Chansiri has not had the humility to do so and we all know the outcome.  Unless he sells up (and who the hell is going to pay what he will want, to recoup his losses?), - this club that we all love will only drop further and further.  Certainly relegation this season is a real possibilty, especially if the EFL deduct points in relation to the financial rules.  Even if they don't, there's a real possibility of relegation, in any case, given performances since Boxing Day.

 

I've followed Wednesday since the age of 8 (early in the 60s) and I can't recall ever feeling so despondent as I do now, because the squad, although not the worst in the division, seems unable to motivate themselves to perform.  Even if the manager is not popular amongst the squad, you would at least expect some self respect and effort from the players on a match day.  It's obvious that it's not happening and even when results were better in the first half of the season, there were many occasions when the result was far, far better than the performance.  We scraped through and gained points that performances didn't deserve, - but that's football sometimes.

 

As others have said, the club is in a complete mess from top to bottom and I for one can't see a positive way forward.

in a perfect world 'football people' should run football clubs, NOT newcomers and amateurs, but people who've been in football for any length of time know it's generally a money burning exercise, not a healthy investment and thus avoid it.

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The old boys of 2016 got older. They ran out of steam last year. We’ve tried a few sticking plasters but they’ve come unstuck. We’re a club without real leadership and there is no evidence of a plan.

 

I’d change it from top to bottom over the next 5 years. A proper plan to improve and align everything behind one clear vision.

 

If the 2016 boys had got us over the line in 2017 we could have been in even more mess. 

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4 minutes ago, Lionel Fessi said:

We've been in free fall for almost the last 3 years. It all started when Chansiri gave CC that new contract after the Semi-Final loss to Huddersfield. When really we should have brought in somebody else with a new philosophy, given them the proper backing and cleared out players who only suited CC’s system.
Instead, we’ve given big contracts & paid big transfer fees to players who we can’t sell that we’ve never been able to get the best from (financially crippling ourselves in the process) and now if we consider LB, we’re on our 4th manager who has yet to get any long term success from this aging squad – that like all the others has been given limited opportunity to properly ‘rebuild’.
 

The issue is clear, there is no long term plan in place. We’ve gone from quick fix to quick fix ever since May 2017, papering over the cracks being completely ignorant to the future implications of our actions. Total failure to plan for the future and establish what the long term goals are for the club and most importantly how we handle business in the short term to get us there.
 

Chansiri needs to re-evaluate his strategy for managing the club, either appoint people at the director level who know what they are doing or start listening to the people he already employs. Our long term performances on the pitch will only ever be as strong as the foundations behind it and until we can establish a culture to make this work, things will not get any better.
 

In the short term, I don’t think sacking Monk answers any of our problems. Irrespective of whether or not I think he’s the man for the job – whoever we bring in won’t last until we can provide a proper environment for them to be productive. Likewise with buying/loaning more players, until we have a proper system – tactically, strategically, philosophy on how to play just like the manager they are short term quick fixes that offer no long term benefit.
 

We will see what happens in the summer, I expect the inevitable summer clear out (contracts expired or sold for a small fee) as much as it pains me to say it, getting rid of former core high earners; players like Westwood, Lees, Bannan,,Hutchinson, Lee, Forestieri, Fletcher and Rhodes could be crucial to our long term plans. I would not be surprised to see us sell the handful players we do own on longer contracts that have good potential too, Iorfa, Reach.

Then the painful slow rebuild can happen, get everything right behind the scenes, financially stable, create that winning environment so when we do back a manger they have the tools to be successful.

 

WAWAW.

the top bit of your post I can agree with, but we're a mile off the last part.

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Since Tom Lees got back in the side Iorfa and Boerner aren't the same players not to mention the loss of Fox. Our midfield is nonexistent..we have one good positive player (Luongo) who loses more games than he plays. Upfront our strikers haven't got supply.

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2 minutes ago, toooldforthis said:

The old boys of 2016 got older. They ran out of steam last year. We’ve tried a few sticking plasters but they’ve come unstuck. We’re a club without real leadership and there is no evidence of a plan.

 

I’d change it from top to bottom over the next 5 years. A proper plan to improve and align everything behind one clear vision.

 

If the 2016 boys had got us over the line in 2017 we could have been in even more mess. 

IF the boys of 16 had got us over the line in 17 we'd have had parachute money, and the fl wouldn't have given a flying **** IF we'd spent 4 times more than we presently have, that's how BENT the system is.

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I know we flll short but I miss the Carlos games, we played some great football at times and scored some crackers. 

Now it feels like watching England

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8 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

IF the boys of 16 had got us over the line in 17 we'd have had parachute money, and the fl wouldn't have given a flying **** IF we'd spent 4 times more than we presently have, that's how BENT the system is.

 

Take a look at the clubs with good players who came down...not many do well for quite some time afterwards.

 

Many players have contracts that give them more pay if they come down than if they stay in the Prem...this might sound ridiculous but it's a fact. This is how crazy the current imbalance between players, agents and clubs has become. Clubs need to take back control. The EFL is owned by the clubs and they should get together to fix this rubbish.

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1 minute ago, toooldforthis said:

 

Take a look at the clubs with good players who came down...not many do well for quite some time afterwards.

 

Many players have contracts that give them more pay if they come down than if they stay in the Prem...this might sound ridiculous but it's a fact. This is how crazy the current imbalance between players, agents and clubs has become. Clubs need to take back control. The EFL is owned by the clubs and they should get together to fix this rubbish.

I agree, but dc won't, for me his plan was to follow the old WBA plan of up/down = pockets filled.

up/down = poskets filled, up/down = pockets filled, until you can stay up.

it financially leaves you ahead of the bunch as we've found to our cost.

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I get the impression that Chansiri appointing Bruce was his last throw of the dice to build a club with an infrastructure and identity.

 

I think he probably would have given Bruce control on the players in and out and backroom staff, he probably did this because of Bruce's past success, and let's face it Chansiri got this decision right. If Bruce had stayed i think he would have sorted the club out from top to bottom.

 

Bruce leaving meant Chansiri probably didn't know what to do, appointed Monk because he was probably to least worst option but Monk ain't Bruce and isn't going to build a club from top to bottom.

 

Needs a director of football with a clear three year plan to implement an identity that's shared with a manager he can work with!

 

 

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1 hour ago, SiJ said:

Feels like the sort of inevitable conclusion of three or so seasons of mediocrity. 

 

Clearly, there is a culture within our club at the moment and it isn't a good one. 

 

Every team experiences wobbles, losses of form, but what I've been watching for the last several weeks goes way beyond that. 

 

Our performances are nothing short of shocking. 

 

These players have completely downed tools and it seems like the manager has pretty much given up. 

 

Honestly, I can't see where the next win is coming from. Even without a points deduction, we might find ourselves in trouble at this rate. 

 

Very worrying. 

 

Totally agree.

I purposely kept off here last night and let the dust settle, so to speak.

I've just watched GMs post match interview and either he's as gutted as us at that performance or he doesn't give one.

Sad fact being, I really don't know which.

The tactics last night and for a few weeks have been totally wrong, which goes a long way to how we perform and must have an effect on the players.

I'm not saying GM is totally to blame because some of the players attitudes and performances stink, no matter where they play.

You're 100% correct saying we are in deep do do, points deduction or not.

I'm totally at a loss as to what's happening and it hurts.

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We were all over the place last night. That wasn’t lack of effort, but players were running down blind alleys and rarely had passing options. It was a total mess. No shortage of hunger , but it was keystone cops stuff from the first 15 seconds.

 

The loan signings look poor, the tactics were dreadful, the defenders looked like pub players. 
 

Blame the manager for that

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6 minutes ago, Lionel Fessi said:

We've been in free fall for almost the last 3 years. It all started when Chansiri gave CC that new contract after the Semi-Final loss to Huddersfield. When really we should have brought in somebody else with a new philosophy, given them the proper backing and cleared out players who only suited CC’s system.
Instead, we’ve given big contracts & paid big transfer fees to players who we can’t sell that we’ve never been able to get the best from (financially crippling ourselves in the process) and now if we consider LB, we’re on our 4th manager who has yet to get any long term success from this aging squad – that like all the others has been given limited opportunity to properly ‘rebuild’.
 

The issue is clear, there is no long term plan in place. We’ve gone from quick fix to quick fix ever since May 2017, papering over the cracks being completely ignorant to the future implications of our actions. Total failure to plan for the future and establish what the long term goals are for the club and most importantly how we handle business in the short term to get us there.
 

Chansiri needs to re-evaluate his strategy for managing the club, either appoint people at the director level who know what they are doing or start listening to the people he already employs. Our long term performances on the pitch will only ever be as strong as the foundations behind it and until we can establish a culture to make this work, things will not get any better.
 

In the short term, I don’t think sacking Monk answers any of our problems. Irrespective of whether or not I think he’s the man for the job – whoever we bring in won’t last until we can provide a proper environment for them to be productive. Likewise with buying/loaning more players, until we have a proper system – tactically, strategically, philosophy on how to play just like the manager they are short term quick fixes that offer no long term benefit.
 

We will see what happens in the summer, I expect the inevitable summer clear out (contracts expired or sold for a small fee) as much as it pains me to say it, getting rid of former core high earners; players like Westwood, Lees, Bannan,,Hutchinson, Lee, Forestieri, Fletcher and Rhodes could be crucial to our long term plans. I would not be surprised to see us sell the handful players we do own on longer contracts that have good potential too, Iorfa, Reach.

Then the painful slow rebuild can happen, get everything right behind the scenes, financially stable, create that winning environment so when we do back a manger they have the tools to be successful.

 

WAWAW.

 

I agree with a lot of this, but there's two issues:

 

Can we get enough points this season to insulate us from the risk of relegation?

 

Also, if we stay in the Championship, will we want Monk to do the Summer dealings and go into next season's campaign? 

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We probably need new players, a new manager and a new Chairman.

 

Invariably Monk will be the scapegoat.

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I’ve come to the conclusion that the sooner Mr Chansiri finds a buyer (good luck with that) the better for everyone concerned. For his sake much as anyone’s. Im not calling for the managers head, the last 2 weeks he gambled and it’s misfired spectacularly. As for the players all I can ask is that they show some professional pride and respect for the clubs supporters and chairman who pays their wages. 

 

I felt sick last night, sarcasm, black humour, perspective ain’t working for me anymore. I’m pissed, really pissed off with the state of my beloved football club

 

See you Saturday folks.

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It does smack of player unrest / revolt doesn’t it?

 

if that’s the case, DC has to gauge whether Monk is up to taking on the group.  ( Bruce, I suspect, would have handled this very well).  If Monk is up to it, stick will him and clear out the bad apples in the summer.  If there’s a whiff that Monk can’t handle the situation, he has to go now as we will fall out of the league.

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