gurujuan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 hours ago, The Horse said: No-one remembers the runners up in any competition. Except for Jimmy White. The perennial loser. Getting to the play-offs and losing is not an achievement as at the end of it, we start back in the Championship on zero points with everyone else. Winning is everything. I don't think singling out the United game is weird either. It was an absolute disgrace and insult that anyone who has to live in Sheffield is still having to live with. It pretty much nailed his self made coffin in on himself with that game. And this free flowing football everyone is seeing through rose tinted specs only materialised in second halves of his first season. Complaints at the time were of slow starts and 'why do we only play in the second half?' His second season was ugly, turgid stuff after he saw Burnley grind their way to promotion. Again, he failed. This thread is a tinted, nostalgic view of a proven loser and failure. I get that we're all angry and emotional right now but Carlos is not the answer. But the trouble is, I don't think any of us know what the answer is out of this. It's all bobbar. That is far too simplistic, or are we to consider Pep a loser for his efforts this season. Two play off appearances, after years of nothing, show we were making progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 He's a charmer no doubt (ask the ladies of Sheffield) but he failed on three occasions despite the highest budget of any Owls manager, why would you want to go back to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, toppOwl said: He's a charmer no doubt (ask the ladies of Sheffield) but he failed on three occasions despite the highest budget of any Owls manager, why would you want to go back to that. I don’t necessarily want to go back, but just one look at what has come after, Jos, Bruce and now, Monk, means keeping Carlos would probably been a better bet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, gurujuan said: I don’t necessarily want to go back, but just one look at what has come after, Jos, Bruce and now, Monk, means keeping Carlos would probably been a better bet He wouldn't, he had his chance working from a clean slate and failed, the ones that followed have had to work with a minimal budget and higher expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 No thanks. That ship has sailed and sunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, toppOwl said: He wouldn't, he had his chance working from a clean slate and failed, the ones that followed have had to work with a minimal budget and higher expectation. Including the best of the players Carlos had, plus a dozen signed since. If the players signed during the Carlos era, were indeed a load of rubbish, then all the more credit to him for reaching two play offs with those players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan93 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 You could arguably say this mess started under Carlos. A massive no from me. The players wasn’t good enough then, nevermind now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, Dylan93 said: You could arguably say this mess started under Carlos. A massive no from me. The players wasn’t good enough then, nevermind now. Maybe, but then Carlos’s tactical prowess must have made the difference. None of our subsequent managers have shown any tactical nous, therein lies the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Desperate times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Why would these players listen to Carlos now? When they didn’t listen to him years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincs Owl Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 24 minutes ago, toppOwl said: He's a charmer no doubt (ask the ladies of Sheffield) but he failed on three occasions despite the highest budget of any Owls manager, why would you want to go back to that. No, he didn't. He had just two and a half seasons here. Think he left on Xmas eve 2017, like Dooley years before. Both his full seasons took us into playoffs. How can you say that was failure? For a club like Sheff Wednesday with no spending money (we have, but the daft EFL rules won't let us spend it), that is success. He got us to Wembley on a shoestring. The Hull players were nearly all on Prem wages as they still had parachute payments. It's nothing to do with crowd sizes any more. Bournemouth are loaded. We aren't. Have you watched us at home this season? It's dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 37 minutes ago, DIPPS_S.W.F.C said: They contributed 2 of the best seasons in last 20 years,hands down,so close,why do people not see the kak of the last 20 years???,short memories or what.if you have been happier with other 18 years then wow,at least we had a go......dont get peoples logic of slating Carlos and DC in 1st 2 seasons.They went for it..Whats wrong with that????... Because Chansiri bet the farm on going up in 2017 with zero back up plan and we are paying the price now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, Lincs Owl said: No, he didn't. He had just two and a half seasons here. Think he left on Xmas eve 2017, like Dooley years before. Both his full seasons took us into playoffs. How can you say that was failure? For a club like Sheff Wednesday with no spending money (we have, but the daft EFL rules won't let us spend it), that is success. He got us to Wembley on a shoestring. The Hull players were nearly all on Prem wages as they still had parachute payments. It's nothing to do with crowd sizes any more. Bournemouth are loaded. We aren't. Have you watched us at home this season? It's dire. Not sure I agree with that. For me Carlos deserves credit for the 2015-16 season but went stale very quickly after that and was a bit of a laughing stock at the end with his bizarre rants in press conferences and interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan93 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Maybe, but then Carlos’s tactical prowess must have made the difference. None of our subsequent managers have shown any tactical nous, therein lies the problem Not really. After that first season under him, the football was dire. He never had a plan B. Where was the tactics against Hull and Huddersfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Horse Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 36 minutes ago, gurujuan said: That is far too simplistic, or are we to consider Pep a loser for his efforts this season. Two play off appearances, after years of nothing, show we were making progress. Of course it's simplistic. It's a game (supposedly) for the working man. It's a basic principle. Score goals. Win games. It's why thickos like me enjoy it. Bit this thread says it all about how crap we've been since the Prem days that we look back at losing in play-offs as halcyon days. We either get promoted or win a cup. Everything else is failure. After Wembley, I wasn't one of the 'great day out' brigade. I was fizzed off cos we lost. We went home with nothing. It hurt. It's why Pep looks so depressed now. He's a natural born winner and it's hurting him cos he's realised he's lost the title. He knows he's a loser this year in that particular competition. I can't talk for anyone else but I have a lot of patience if I can see things or see someone trying their best to move things in the right direction. But at the end of the day, we've had 20 years of failure (bar the league one promotions). And I will never applaud falling short cos it was the best season of football in a dark few decades. Never accept second best. Wednesday til I flipping die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIPPS_S.W.F.C Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said: Because Chansiri bet the farm on going up in 2017 with zero back up plan and we are paying the price now. And youd have rather had 2 seasons of mid table nothingness.He gambled,we had a go,didnt get there but,the likes of B'mouth,Villa,Woles etc gambled the same and made it.Why do people slate for him giving us a chance and Pumping HIS money in....Lets get Allen back or Richards ffs....Unbelievable Jeff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, DIPPS_S.W.F.C said: And youd have rather had 2 seasons of mid table nothingness.He gambled,we had a go,didnt get there but,the likes of B'mouth,Villa,Woles etc gambled the same and made it.Why do people slate for him giving us a chance and Pumping HIS money in....Lets get Allen back or Richards ffs....Unbelievable Jeff... Yes if it meant building slowly and not ripping off fans. Not sure why I should be grateful him pumping money in and making the club worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 50 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Including the best of the players Carlos had, plus a dozen signed since. If the players signed during the Carlos era, were indeed a load of rubbish, then all the more credit to him for reaching two play offs with those players The players he had certainly were not rubbish, we were lacking in a few positions going into his second season but he had the tools and FF was on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 35 minutes ago, Lincs Owl said: No, he didn't. He had just two and a half seasons here. Think he left on Xmas eve 2017, like Dooley years before. Both his full seasons took us into playoffs. How can you say that was failure? For a club like Sheff Wednesday with no spending money (we have, but the daft EFL rules won't let us spend it), that is success. He got us to Wembley on a shoestring. The Hull players were nearly all on Prem wages as they still had parachute payments. It's nothing to do with crowd sizes any more. Bournemouth are loaded. We aren't. Have you watched us at home this season? It's dire. His remit was to get promotion to the Premier League, he didn't manage to do that, being close isn't success, he was sacked in his 3rd season as it was failing again. I agree on the home games, its extremely dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMacLean Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Carlos had a play-off quality squad. He got there twice with it. It's a lottery once there as Leeds found too last year. Yes we spent but not like he had a Wolves or Newcastle size budget/side and messed it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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