Guest Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, the monk said: Did united have enough for automatic? Did Cardiff ? I never said Carlos had the managerial pedigree of the likes of Warnock and few have been seen to do a better job at any level than Wilder in recent years. If we had such good players that anyone could have got us promoted and Carlos is one of the worst we have had, why has it got worse with a similar set of players, most of whom shouldn't be classed as over the hill, since then? We have had better manager and we have certainly had worse. Don't think there is a need for the hatred that seems apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the monk Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 47 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Ah yes, Stuart Gray, the fabled manager that hasn't had a managerial position of note since. Amazing how his reputation grew on the basis of a mid table finish where we failed to score a home goal from open play for about half a season. Stuart Gray seems like a good bloke and a good coach but if he was a good manager and believed in himself as a good manager, he would have put that to the test by now. He wasnt a good manager but he was working with 5 hite , the point is Carlos gained a grand total of half a dozen places for god knows how many million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, dorian gray said: what you said reyt to. What Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist_Owl Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, S72 Owl said: One of my favourite managers. Loved his passion on the sidelines, loved the football we played that first season. Don’t really understand the people still blaming Carlos for the squad now but everyone has an opinion. Pahshun. CC was all hat and no cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the monk Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: I never said Carlos had the managerial pedigree of the likes of Warnock and few have been seen to do a better job at any level than Wilder in recent years. If we had such good players that anyone could have got us promoted and Carlos is one of the worst we have had, why has it got worse with a similar set of players, most of whom shouldn't be classed as over the hill, since then? We have had better manager and we have certainly had worse. Don't think there is a need for the hatred that seems apparent. Dont hate him ,why would I I've never met him ,but dont rate him Hes not a manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ferkorf Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I cant believe how petty and bitter some of our fans are towards Carlos. His first season was probably the best season most have ever witnessed. Fact of the matter is if we would have beaten Hull that day none of you would be bitching so much. If we ever got to the premiership I'd expect some people to still be moaning and crying on here because we arent winning every game or getting to europe. I still can't believe we have fans that just cant understand we arent even good. Arguably we have never been that good. Odd seasons like the Carlos era come along once every blue moon and we should enjoy them for what they are. It doesn't matter if we average 23k fans a match or have an epic away support we will always be light years behind most of the prem clubs now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, the monk said: He wasnt a good manager but he was working with 5 hite , the point is Carlos gained a grand total of half a dozen places for god knows how many million Yet since he left we have dropped back further than we were at under Gray, so he got a better tune out of the expensive players than the managers we have had since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the monk Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Ferkorf said: I cant believe how petty and bitter some of our fans are towards Carlos. His first season was probably the best season most have ever witnessed. Fact of the matter is if we would have beaten Hull that day none of you would be bitching so much. If we ever got to the premiership I'd expect some people to still be moaning and crying on here because we arent winning every game or getting to europe. I still can't believe we have fans that just cant understand we arent even good. Arguably we have never been that good. Odd seasons like the Carlos era come along once every blue moon and we should enjoy them for what they are. It doesn't matter if we average 23k fans a match or have an epic away support we will always be light years behind most of the prem clubs Enjoy for what they are ....glorified failure Play offs dont half cloud peoples minds 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Womble Owl said: I'd have him back If he was allowed to pick his own transfers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, the monk said: Enjoy for what they are ....glorified failure Play offs dont half cloud peoples minds 81 points in a season at this level, look forward to seeing that again sometime soon...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Womble Owl Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 His first season was the best I've had since the 90's. The Brighton semi final game, Wembley, the Arsenal game, to name but a few,with flowing attacking football. I understand people need someone to blame for our demise since then, but I don't understand the vitriol towards him. Obviously he lost his way towards the end of his reign with us, but unfortunately that's what happens to all managers at all clubs in the end, with the exception of Ferguson, it's part and parcel of being a football manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ferkorf said: I cant believe how petty and bitter some of our fans are towards Carlos. His first season was probably the best season most have ever witnessed. Fact of the matter is if we would have beaten Hull that day none of you would be bitching so much. If we ever got to the premiership I'd expect some people to still be moaning and crying on here because we arent winning every game or getting to europe. I still can't believe we have fans that just cant understand we arent even good. Arguably we have never been that good. Odd seasons like the Carlos era come along once every blue moon and we should enjoy them for what they are. It doesn't matter if we average 23k fans a match or have an epic away support we will always be light years behind most of the prem clubs now I wasn't happy with Carlos at the time, as he presided over the transfer debacle which left us in this mess, which left us with a team which played pedestrian football and had no passion for the club. With two years hind sight I'm prepared to beleive that wasn't entirely or possibley even remotely his fault. This is what happens when you detach the transfer policy from the Manager's role. The manager dies by someone else's sword. Carlos had to go at the time. The players have since been proven to have been the problem on many ocasions since he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG_1984 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Fond memories of Carlos. Went sour at the end like it does for 95% of managers in football but there’s been much worse and he led us to our two most successful seasons this century. Yes his tactics were abysmal against Huddersfield and the capitulation against the pigs was unforgivable. I wouldn’t have him back now but gave us some lasting memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Anyone disliking Carlos can’t have watched the absolute tripe that I did for the majority of the previous 20 years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, vulva said: Anyone disliking Carlos can’t have watched the absolute tripe that I did for the majority of the previous 20 years. They will just tell you he had money to spend. Of course he had a more expensive squad than his predecessors but it need to be looked at with some relativity. Not much more than half a decade ago few clubs at this level were spending million pound sums on players let alone multi millions pound sums. All we did was keep up with everyone else, we still weren't in the top 6 budget wise and the fees we paid for the likes of Forestieri and Hooper were seen as good business at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Thome Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 People go on and on about the money spent, but it's clear he wasn't in charge of the signings. It was clear as day that he didn't want Jordan Rhodes and that particular signing was by far the biggest waste of money. Perhaps he had some input on the likes of João and Matias, but I doubt he was banging down the chairman's door saying we must sign David Jones and Jack Hunt. Even the Almen Abdi signing was, on paper, a good player, and the fault for that lies with the medical and boardroom staff who signed off the transfer/ didn't do due diligence. So, with the players we had, should a coach expect automatic promotion with them? Absolutely not - I'd say anywhere between 3rd-12th would be about the expectation. Even our much bemoaned play-off failures were 5 games against 3 very good sides (Brighton went up and stayed up the next season, as did Hudders, only Hull didn't but they actually got weaker the next season as they lost Bruce). 5 games, 4 goals scored, 3 conceded and very small margins in all the matches - e.g. Diame doesn't quite nail his worldie, or a slightly different angle deflection of Lees' shin, and we could have had a different result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ferkorf Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, the monk said: Enjoy for what they are ....glorified failure Play offs dont half cloud peoples minds Is that not what we have always been? Or did 2 cup final losses in 1993 still leave your head fuzzy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: They will just tell you he had money to spend. Of course he had a more expensive squad than his predecessors but it need to be looked at with some relativity. Not much more than half a decade ago few clubs at this level were spending million pound sums on players let alone multi millions pound sums. All we did was keep up with everyone else, we still weren't in the top 6 budget wise and the fees we paid for the likes of Forestieri and Hooper were seen as good business at the time. We wasted money, every which way you look at it, and the club is still in a mess because of it. That said I don't blame Carlos for this with hindsight. I blame the clubs connection to an agent who we outsourced our transfer policy too. (Allegedly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ferkorf Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said: I wasn't happy with Carlos at the time, as he presided over the transfer debacle which left us in this mess, which left us with a team which played pedestrian football and had no passion for the club. With two years hind sight I'm prepared to beleive that wasn't entirely or possibley even remotely his fault. This is what happens when you detach the transfer policy from the Manager's role. The manager dies by someone else's sword. Carlos had to go at the time. The players have since been proven to have been the problem on many ocasions since he left. Agreed, something definitely dodgy about the incomings and outgoings. Even still to this day I think that bearded dude is still appearing on youtube videos around the coaching staff and players... Paxio?? (I think) Not blaming him but just dont really understand what his role is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Thome Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Ferkorf said: Is that not what we have always been? Or did 2 cup final losses in 1993 still leave your head fuzzy? True. Even the team that got automatic promotion in 1990/91 only finished 3rd. Most seasons that would have only been good enough for the play-offs, it was only that the league was being restructured and 4 went up that year. And that with the best Wednesday squad pretty much in living memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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