How difficult is it .....

[SallyCinnamon]

7 minutes ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

The blunts have 8 league 1 players in their senior squad. They are average players. But have the will to fight for everything whilst they wear their shirt and now they are playing at the highest level.

Mentality and mental strength is nothing to do with ability.

FF, Bannan,Westwood are talented and supposedly world beaters, but in my view lack mental strength to succeed and their mentality sucks

Fair point, but United’s success is a bit of a one off let’s be honest. A superb manager and stumbled across some players who have actually turned out to be quite good players. I think the likes of Fleck, Stevens and Egan are very good players who are better than what we have on talent and mentality.

 

I just we lack quality in key areas. I actually think we have an honest bunch of players who do work hard. We’re just inconsistent which reflects our league position and our league position for the past two seasons.

[torres]

5 minutes ago, owls maniac said:

I agree with a lot of this. It’s all very stale and there is no one at the top with the creativity or energy to change things. Instead DC is suing the council, the very body we should be working with to try and improve things around the ground for the supporters. 
 

The only hope is that we stumble upon a miracle worker manager like the pigs have with Wilder or that DC sells up to someone who sees the potential. But I can’t say I look forward to the next few years as anything other than a continued slog. 

I know other clubs are far worse off and will never do anything but I can’t think of many that have our potential who haven’t done anything for so long!

 

We must be the “biggest” club in Europe to be out of the top league for this amount of time 

 

 

[fpowl]

I think what this comes down to is consistency and mentality 

 

we have a squad full of talent but we don’t have the mentality 

 

to compare how we play to our noisy scrubbers across the city they are light years ahead 

 

wilder as built a team full of nobodies but they all have the win or die trying attitude in them to fight for everything with a manager of the same ilk they give it everything 

 

we only do that in the big games 

 

I believe we have the right manager in charge

 

I don’t believe he will have the time to turnover this club to be that promotion winning Leicester team or wilder team (shudders) 

 

it would take at least 4 transfer windows or 2-3 summer windows 

 

it needs to run through the club, to have the fight, togetherness, passion. Players need releasing and replacing with heart and bottle a bit of talent in there and you can coach the rest 

 

having weak players who don’t want to play or declare themselves unfit not guts or heart players like abdi questions over westwood and FF we changed our culture and ended up with two many fancy dan premadonas and we need more warriors

 

we need more fletchers and borners 

 

this is not a quick fix managers don’t get time to have a long term plan and monk will effectively be gone before Christmas after 1 decent summer transfer window and the cycle continues 

 

the club need to identify a culture they want and stick to it no matter who is in charge managers like Carlos could never manager a culture I’ve spoke about thats why we have the one we have today  

[owls maniac]

3 minutes ago, torres said:

I know other clubs are far worse off and will never do anything but I can’t think of many that have our potential who haven’t done anything for so long!

 

We must be the “biggest” club in Europe to be out of the top league for this amount of time 

 

 

Think Forest have been out longer than us and Leeds just a bit less. But yes, get your point. 

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

14 minutes ago, torres said:

FF for one reason or another has let us down on the whole. Not sure it can be levelled at Westwood and definitely not Bannan in my opinion 

 

 

Westwood is a diva who plays when he wants to. Do you truly believe he's injured? Or maybe it's just his ego that's bruised because he was dropped after several costly errors.

Bannan tries to do it all himself when it's not quite happening and throws the game plan out of the window. Who knew he prefers sweeping behind the back four. 

 

Hutch bless him has the desire but is too rash in the challenge costing us again.

The problem is they have not developed at all to change any of this in the last four years.

If you can't teach old dogs new tricks we need new, younger dogs.

[owls maniac]

1 minute ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

Westwood is a diva who plays when he wants to. Do you truly believe he's injured? Or maybe it's just his ego that's bruised because he was dropped after several costly errors.

Bannan tries to do it all himself when it's not quite happening and throws the game plan out of the window. Who knew he prefers sweeping behind the back four. 

 

Hutch bless him has the desire but is too rash in the challenge costing us again.

The problem is they have not developed at all to change any of this in the last four years.

If you can't teach old dogs new tricks we need new, younger dogs.

Westwood and Hutch need to go at the end of this season. Bannan still is one of our best players on his day, but I agree, we have to be less reliant. 

[stanningtonowl]

1 hour ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

No, I don't want to go up and be the whipping boys of the PL.

This whole club needs a nut and bolt restoration.

It's stale, stagnant, and feels like the club has lost its soul. 

We have to accept that these players are not going to do it and are too comfortable, past it or do not have the right mentality.

 

All us supporters in our heart of hearts know this.  The club in its current state feels somewhat toxic and feels like it is slowly dying unless something changes. Go to Hillsborough and listen. The silence is deafening. No more bouncing, or trying to out sing the away end regardless of the score. There's nothing to motivate the fans and the fans aren't motivating the players. No one seems to be having fun anymore.

I was there in the 80s, I was there in the 90s. I was there when we went down with Big Ron and bounced back.

The place was buzzing. We were upset but we got behind the team and went back up.

I don't know what has happened but I've not experienced that feeling or atmosphere for a very long time.

Only twice in recent years has anything come close. The final home game with promotion from league 1 and the playoff final.

 

Monk needs to be able to get rid of whoever he needs to, players and staff, whether or not they are crowd favourites. We need to support him in this.

 

We need a factory reset. Build a new ethic and methodology of this great football club. It will take years but something has to give.

 

The blades have managed it and there is no reason why we can't do the same.

 

 

Sadly I don’t think we can reset whilst the gate prices are what they are. 
Season ticket holders prop the place up. If they are all the same age as me, I don’t sing, I just sit and grumble whilst the away end sing “Is this a library”. 
The malaise lies at Chansiri’s door. He needs to see this and see it quickly. 
Looking at the new season ticket prices, he doesn’t get it. 

[Animis]

13 minutes ago, KivoOwl said:

Club has been dying a slow death for 25 years.

 

Old mob of Richards, Hulley, Culley, Grierson etc... overspent and didn't have a Plan B when the poo hit the fan, other than run away.

 

Dave Allen a colossal wee pipe head.

 

Strafford was a good bloke with good ideas but nowhere near enough money and was having to pull a u-turn with an oil tanker the way we were going.
 

Mandaric is the best we've had but didn't fancy putting up any more money - another £10m and he'd have had us in the PL, but fair enough it was his money.

 

Then he sold us to Chansiri who quite frankly hasn't got a clue. Followed the path of the mob that got us into this mess in the first place by overspending and not having a Plan B when the poo hit the fan.

 

In the past 25 years, most of the Football League have moved to new grounds or seen significant redevelopment of their existing stadium.

 

Hillsborough hasn't altered since 1996. The West Stand resembles a prison, the Kop concourses are something from a bygone era, the South Stand is stuck in the 1910s and the North Stand has needed its concourses widening since being built in 1961. All the while, the whole place has been steadily falling apart. We've had a new pitch and scoreboard fitted, fans went crazy as though it was a new stand being put up. Chansiri has spent £180m apparently, but diddly-squat on spectator facilities.

 

The area around the ground has fallen to pieces too. Pubs shut, fans sat on walls outside an abandoned car showroom forecourt or swigging from cans on street corners. No fanzones or anything like that. Riverside doing a roaring trade but you have to pay a fiver to go in the club's own bar.

 

All the while, fans are being asked to pay the highest ticket prices in the league (and higher than most in the PL) to watch mid-table second-tier football mercenaries who don't really care about the club. The average age of the Wednesday fan is going higher and higher - people under 30 see Wednesday as just another club, and won't pay £30+ just because it's their local team. We do nothing to entice people to come to the games.

 

Yes we'll win the odd game here and there, but the whole place stinks. It's boring, drab, miserable and downright depressing to go to Hillsborough.

 

What makes Wednesday, Wednesday any more?

 

We're caught in a time warp with the ground - we apparently need to get promoted to make a decision - why?

 

Why can't start a long-term plan now. I think it's clear this owner isn't going to be here long term or he intends to move grounds once promoted and therefore, guaranteed revenue flows in.

 

The paradox with this strategy is he's the one holding promotion back - his poor, narcissistic management of the club at all levels, with results any employee would have been sacked by now. 

 

There's essentially nothing to show from his 5-year investment, other than the pitch. His family, who were there today, must think what is this all about DC - it's verging on a personal and financial disaster.

[Swiss Toni]

Personally I still think a lot of this stems from poor management and structure in the club since Chansiri took charge . You have 2 'soft' embargos and an EFL threat hanging over us for poor ownership and as soon a season the chips are down on the pitch the players heads go. Unfortunately it happens. 

[owls maniac]

1 minute ago, Animis said:

 

We're caught in a time warp with the ground - we apparently need to get promoted to make a decision - why?

 

Why can't start a long-term plan now. I think it's clear this owner isn't going to be here long term or he intends to move grounds once promoted and therefore, guaranteed revenue flows in.

 

The paradox with this strategy is he's the one holding promotion back - his poor, narcissistic management of the club at all levels, with results any employee would have been sacked by now. 

 

There's essentially nothing to show from his 5-year investment, other than the pitch. His family, who were there today, must think what is this all about DC - it's verging on a personal and financial disaster.

Totally agree. And he’ll be the last person to recognise this. I don’t doubt that his heart is in the right place, but ultimately he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. And it’s starting to cause serious damage to the fabric of the club. 

[owls maniac]

1 minute ago, Junk Smuggler said:

Personally I still think a lot of this stems from poor management and structure in the club since Chansiri took charge . You have 2 'soft' embargos and an EFL threat hanging over us for poor ownership and as soon a season the chips are down on the pitch the players heads go. Unfortunately it happens. 

We aren’t set up to be successful. As you say, how can you be when you have so many threats hanging over the club. Our season could be ended tomorrow if the EFL rule against us. It’s not conducive to us progressing, and that is entirely within DC’s control. 

[Mac_77]

22 minutes ago, KivoOwl said:

Club has been dying a slow death for 25 years.

 

Old mob of Richards, Hulley, Culley, Grierson etc... overspent and didn't have a Plan B when the poo hit the fan, other than run away.

 

Dave Allen a colossal wee pipe head.

 

Strafford was a good bloke with good ideas but nowhere near enough money and was having to pull a u-turn with an oil tanker the way we were going.
 

Mandaric is the best we've had but didn't fancy putting up any more money - another £10m and he'd have had us in the PL, but fair enough it was his money.

 

Then he sold us to Chansiri who quite frankly hasn't got a clue. Followed the path of the mob that got us into this mess in the first place by overspending and not having a Plan B when the poo hit the fan.

 

In the past 25 years, most of the Football League have moved to new grounds or seen significant redevelopment of their existing stadium.

 

Hillsborough hasn't altered since 1996. The West Stand resembles a prison, the Kop concourses are something from a bygone era, the South Stand is stuck in the 1910s and the North Stand has needed its concourses widening since being built in 1961. All the while, the whole place has been steadily falling apart. We've had a new pitch and scoreboard fitted, fans went crazy as though it was a new stand being put up. Chansiri has spent £180m apparently, but diddly-squat on spectator facilities.

 

The area around the ground has fallen to pieces too. Pubs shut, fans sat on walls outside an abandoned car showroom forecourt or swigging from cans on street corners. No fanzones or anything like that. Riverside doing a roaring trade but you have to pay a fiver to go in the club's own bar.

 

All the while, fans are being asked to pay the highest ticket prices in the league (and higher than most in the PL) to watch mid-table second-tier football mercenaries who don't really care about the club. The average age of the Wednesday fan is going higher and higher - people under 30 see Wednesday as just another club, and won't pay £30+ just because it's their local team. We do nothing to entice people to come to the games.

 

Yes we'll win the odd game here and there, but the whole place stinks. It's boring, drab, miserable and downright depressing to go to Hillsborough.

 

What makes Wednesday, Wednesday any more?

That is an absolutely cracking post.

[torres]

2 minutes ago, owls maniac said:

We aren’t set up to be successful. As you say, how can you be when you have so many threats hanging over the club. Our season could be ended tomorrow if the EFL rule against us. It’s not conducive to us progressing, and that is entirely within DC’s control. 

I honestly don’t think the players take any notice/understand it 

 

(pigs in turmoil at board level)

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

3 minutes ago, stanningtonowl said:

Sadly I don’t think we can reset whilst the gate prices are what they are. 
Season ticket holders prop the place up. If they are all the same age as me, I don’t sing, I just sit and grumble whilst the away end sing “Is this a library”. 
The malaise lies at Chansiri’s door. He needs to see this and see it quickly. 
Looking at the new season ticket prices, he doesn’t get it. 

I hear what your saying but I'm not sure any of what is happening on the pitch relates to ticket prices.

The wage bill is killing us. If we had the same players on a third of the wage bill we'd be more sustainable. Many of them only seem to be putting in a third of the effort so maybe that's the answer. Lol

 

 

[stanningtonowl]

34 minutes ago, KivoOwl said:

Club has been dying a slow death for 25 years.

 

Old mob of Richards, Hulley, Culley, Grierson etc... overspent and didn't have a Plan B when the poo hit the fan, other than run away.

 

Dave Allen a colossal wee pipe head.

 

Strafford was a good bloke with good ideas but nowhere near enough money and was having to pull a u-turn with an oil tanker the way we were going.
 

Mandaric is the best we've had but didn't fancy putting up any more money - another £10m and he'd have had us in the PL, but fair enough it was his money.

 

Then he sold us to Chansiri who quite frankly hasn't got a clue. Followed the path of the mob that got us into this mess in the first place by overspending and not having a Plan B when the poo hit the fan.

 

In the past 25 years, most of the Football League have moved to new grounds or seen significant redevelopment of their existing stadium.

 

Hillsborough hasn't altered since 1996. The West Stand resembles a prison, the Kop concourses are something from a bygone era, the South Stand is stuck in the 1910s and the North Stand has needed its concourses widening since being built in 1961. All the while, the whole place has been steadily falling apart. We've had a new pitch and scoreboard fitted, fans went crazy as though it was a new stand being put up. Chansiri has spent £180m apparently, but diddly-squat on spectator facilities.

 

The area around the ground has fallen to pieces too. Pubs shut, fans sat on walls outside an abandoned car showroom forecourt or swigging from cans on street corners. No fanzones or anything like that. Riverside doing a roaring trade but you have to pay a fiver to go in the club's own bar.

 

All the while, fans are being asked to pay the highest ticket prices in the league (and higher than most in the PL) to watch mid-table second-tier football mercenaries who don't really care about the club. The average age of the Wednesday fan is going higher and higher - people under 30 see Wednesday as just another club, and won't pay £30+ just because it's their local team. We do nothing to entice people to come to the games.

 

Yes we'll win the odd game here and there, but the whole place stinks. It's boring, drab, miserable and downright depressing to go to Hillsborough.

 

What makes Wednesday, Wednesday any more?

Excellent post. 

[Swiss Toni]

57 minutes ago, hugeowl said:

We had one Bruce 

I think Monk can do it , we will not know until he can bring his own players in and get rid of the dross 

 

Problem is Monk is unlikely going to get a chance to bring in the players he truly wants. That's through no fault of his, just poor running of the club in seasons 1-3 under Chansiri and Carvalhal.

[Mac_77]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again.

 

As soon as Chansiri took over, long term foundations should have been laid to show his intentions.

 

The ground, drastically improved or better still move away from Hillsborough.

 

Investment in the youth set up.

 

The club hasn’t moved with the times and the experience is the same as the first match I attended in 1996 v Liverpool but with a few thousand less at the ground.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Mac_77

[DobbinTheDonkey]

Until the advisers go nothing will change.

If someone cannot understand that he is being badly advised then...

 

The plan was to get in the PL as fast as possible then think of the possibilities with all that cash. Not possibilities for the fans just the leeches and hangers-on that appear.

[Mike Hunt]

Let’s be honest 

Mr Chansiri has been badly advised on many levels 

I am not defending him totally but I bet he wishes he could turn the clock back and start again 

There are many people and players who have profited from his   Money but I am afraid the most Important people in the club, the fans are coming of the worst in every way possible 

who knows what the next chapter will bring 

[owls maniac]

49 minutes ago, DobbinTheDonkey said:

Until the advisers go nothing will change.

If someone cannot understand that he is being badly advised then...

 

The plan was to get in the PL as fast as possible then think of the possibilities with all that cash. Not possibilities for the fans just the leeches and hangers-on that appear.

Why do you and many others keep giving him the benefit of the doubt about advisers. He’s been here 5 years now. If he’s not worked out for himself by now that he’s made a catalogue of bad decisions then it’s not the advisers who are to blame, its him.