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Bannan's vision


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2 hours ago, WelshOwl74 said:

Comparing bannan to Sheridan is laughable 

Not even in the same league 

Sheridan playing in the top leagues and cup finals 

Bannan a playoff failure and premier league flop

Good championship player but some need to take their heads out of his ar5e

 

 

 

If you are going to compare players then compare equally, you are cherry picking Sheridans successes against Bannans failures.    

 

If I remember rightly Sheridan was at Hillsborough when we were relegated, does that make him a Premier league flop?

 

Both are quality players and I loved watching them both play.  One is interchangeable with the other. 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

 

If you are going to compare players then compare equally, you are cherry picking Sheridans successes against Bannans failures.    

 

If I remember rightly Sheridan was at Hillsborough when we were relegated, does that make him a Premier league flop?

 

Both are quality players and I loved watching them both play.  One is interchangeable with the other. 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

OK what's bannan achieved in his playing career then? 

 

Good player but comparing him to Sheridan is laughable

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1 hour ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

I'm not going to construct your argument for you.

 

And you failed to answer my question about Sheridan.

Yes he was relegated with us then went on to get promoted and win the league cup in 91 (scoring the winning goal)

Two cup finals and 3rd place finish in 93 

And a cup semi final in 94/95

And a promotion with a Bolton team that scored 100 goals in the process

 

What's bannan done?

Contributed 6 goals in 5 years and two back to back playoff failures ,got 60 games in premier league with 2 clubs and dropped at both within 3 months 

 

Anyone comparing Sheridan and bannans career is either blind ,daft or both.

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Sheridan played at the highest level and won a domestic competition. He ran midfields in the premier league, Bannan can’t even do that in this league 

 

I swear, when we get anyone whose a cultured footballer we overrate them to the high heavens, because we’ve been starved of any quality for years. Bannan is a good championship midfielder, nothing more nothing less.
 

No one has ever come in for him and he can’t even get in the Scotland team 

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On 15/01/2020 at 18:03, HOOTIE AND THE poo TU said:

This is the moment Bannan saw the pass to Reach, the ball hadn't reached Borner yet, but Bannan could see the big picture

 

He knew Leeds were stretched, he knew the run that Reach would make if he could get the ball quickly

 

Not all midfield players have this vision, to some like Bannan, it comes easy, John Sheridan had this talent in abundance, and Bannan has it too

 

It's like a second sight, knowing where colleagues are going to be at any given moment

 

There's still an awful lot of work to be done when Bannan gets the ball, fortunately Reach has the quality to be in the right place and deliver the right pass,  and Nuhiu has the quality to deliver the shot

 

But it all started here, in the mind of Barry Bannan

 

Screenshot_20200115-175000_YouTube.thumb.jpg.2b04fe880f92758c575a31387abb84d4.jpg

 

Yes, Bannan makes it look so simple and a lot of it is just about being aware of what is happening on the pitch and what could happen next. Luckily Reach is another of those players that is very aware of what is happening and has enough talent to supply a high percentage of good balls in to players who have made the run into space. I recently watched some footage on YouTube with my son, of John Sheridan in action, but unfortunately because he was so good at corners, free kicks and penalties, most of the footage of him shows those things and not the amazing little touches he would make to shake off a marker, or lay a perfect ball right in front of a player's best foot, without him having to change pace or shout for the ball. If anybody knows of any footage showing some of Sheridans passing and turning skills I'd love to see them again. One highlight in the clips I saw, was the amazing run he made to score against Utd. M

 

My son plays at U13 level and I have always given him the same good advice I got when we were playing in teams as kids, something like, "always be aware of where everybody is and look around quickly, before you get the ball, so that you can have at least one pass in mind before you receive the ball". Best advice I was ever given, that and a dodgy one that refs still do not seem to understand was, "make sure you don't have the ball at your feet when somebody commits to a tackle in or around the opponents box". The number of free kicks won by players for this and the number of penalties still being given even in the prem, where the attacking player kicks the ball (very often going out for a goal kick and couldn't have reached it without the tackle), but gets given a penalty because the defender was already committed to the tackle! 

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26 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said:

Yes he was relegated with us then went on to get promoted and win the league cup in 91 (scoring the winning goal)

Two cup finals and 3rd place finish in 93 

And a cup semi final in 94/95

And a promotion with a Bolton team that scored 100 goals in the process

 

What's bannan done?

Contributed 6 goals in 5 years and two back to back playoff failures ,got 60 games in premier league with 2 clubs and dropped at both within 3 months 

 

Anyone comparing Sheridan and bannans career is either blind ,daft or both.

you might compare who was booed off the pitch most times ? lol 

Seriously Sheridan and Nielsson together invented the artform of playing out from the back before it had a name. They were quite telepathic in reading each others progress up the right of the pitch. When far enough up the pitch Sheridan would look to get in the central hole with the aim of sliding a through ball to Hirst, Atkinson or Warhurst.

 

Bannan doesn't have the tools to play in a variety of speed merchants in through the middle so he has to adopt a different modus operandi ! He tends not to work with anyone in particular but drifts left looking for the diagonal Crossfield pass or sliding one down the line (Elland Road). Where he more than matches Sheridan is in his recovery, his mobility at pace around the pitch is superb.

 

Sheridan probably edges it in control and flow of a game whereas Bannan is always looking to pick up the pace of the game.

 

In truth I would love to see them both playing together. I can't pick but over the years both have been a joy to watch.

 

But remember both have had their detractors at senior management level in the top division; None more so than Brian Clough who slated Sheridans skill set on our acquisition of him. "I was pleased to see it go in and I know I had a lot of support after the Oxford game and that goal was for them". One thing is for sure, we don't half have some whingers in our ranks !      

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2 hours ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

 

If you are going to compare players then compare equally, you are cherry picking Sheridans successes against Bannans failures.    

 

If I remember rightly Sheridan was at Hillsborough when we were relegated, does that make him a Premier league flop?

 

Both are quality players and I loved watching them both play.  One is interchangeable with the other. 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I would have to agree with WelshOwl74 on a lot of his points there. Bannan was let go by a Prem side because he was not deemed good enough at that level at the time. Whether he would be good enough now, or next season is another matter, but I would say that Bannan's work rate is probably higher than Sheridan's. Sheridan was not particularly well know for running around and tackling people was he, but on every other level and not having a go at Bannan here, just highlighting his weaker points, because his strong points are very very strong, but I would say that Sheridan had the edge. His passing was always purposeful and rarely put us in danger, whereas Bannan, even at this level does tend to make mistakes in most games, some of which are punished by chances on goal for the opposition, doing his one trick under pressure where he turns one way, then quickly back the other in dangerous areas, or makes silly passes backwards and forwards too often in defence when he is the player who should be playing the long ball forward, especially if it has to be made under pressure, not the defender, or playing balls out to defenders, or wingers which they have to slow down or stop for before having to pass it back wards or sideways because there is an opposition player in front of them. Those kinds of things happen less when Bannan is playing well, but he does them often enough to be a weakness when he is not quite at his best. Sheridan had so many different ricks up his sleeve and was always trying something new, maybe something he'd heard of, or seen in a foreign game, or something he had been working on in training that totally bamboozled everybody and made you want to watch it over and over again to see exactly how he had done it. On the ball Sheridan could get a yard of space against a marker using a number of different techniques and he would do them in sequences until he had the required space, unlike Bannan, who does the left turn/right turn thing then either manages to just get the ball away or gets tackled because the opponent knows what he is going to do next. I would also say that temperament wise, when he was riled, Sheridan would become so determined (once he had calmed down a bit) that he would rise to the occasion more often than not and would never let an opposing midfielder have the upper hand. Bannan can go into his shell, sulk for long periods of games and play in a more predictable way, which enables the opposition to take over. I have seen Bannan pull our strings and make us play in a certain way when he is on top form, but Sheridan could totally tie a team in knots and if was kept out of the game by tight marking, or heavy tackling he would pay them back with a goal from a corner, free kick, or penalty with unerring regularity. Yes ok I might be eulogising over a player we had yonks back, but we were totally in love with the fellow then because of what he did to the best midfields and the best defences in the country and the style and the swagger that he carried it off with. If you hear him talking, he sounds a bit shy and awkward sometimes, but never with the ball at his feet. He is one of the best midfielders I have ever seen and although Bannan comes close in some respects, I never watch one of his free kicks or corners expecting to see something special, although he can surprise you every now and again, he does not have the same consistency, or very high levels of skill and composure that Sheridan had. Sheridan was really a one off player and is very difficult to compare to any of the players we have had since, or prior to him, in my opinion of course maybe others have a different view.

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41 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

you might compare who was booed off the pitch most times ? lol 

Seriously Sheridan and Nielsson together invented the artform of playing out from the back before it had a name. They were quite telepathic in reading each others progress up the right of the pitch. When far enough up the pitch Sheridan would look to get in the central hole with the aim of sliding a through ball to Hirst, Atkinson or Warhurst.

 

Bannan doesn't have the tools to play in a variety of speed merchants in through the middle so he has to adopt a different modus operandi ! He tends not to work with anyone in particular but drifts left looking for the diagonal Crossfield pass or sliding one down the line (Elland Road). Where he more than matches Sheridan is in his recovery, his mobility at pace around the pitch is superb.

 

Sheridan probably edges it in control and flow of a game whereas Bannan is always looking to pick up the pace of the game.

 

In truth I would love to see them both playing together. I can't pick but over the years both have been a joy to watch.

 

But remember both have had their detractors at senior management level in the top division; None more so than Brian Clough who slated Sheridans skill set on our acquisition of him. "I was pleased to see it go in and I know I had a lot of support after the Oxford game and that goal was for them". One thing is for sure, we don't half have some whingers in our ranks !      

 

Yeah Nilsson one side and Irish on the other, we really were devastating weren't we. I know that Sheridan loved to spice up the free kick routines and instigated most of them, but do remeber that lovely routine where Irish would start a lazy run out on the wing, breaking into a fast run as Sheridan got to the ball and slid the ball in towards the goal line for Worthington to cross or pull back, for our front line to head or kick goal wards? The number of times defences fell for that one! Sometimes we would rest it for a while before dusting it down and doing it again, sometimes with different players crossing it in, but Sheridan's slide rule passing would always account for the player's speed and ability to get to the ball wouldn't it. We would have him back in a flash wouldn't we. 

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29 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

Sorry, but I would have to agree with WelshOwl74 on a lot of his points there. Bannan was let go by a Prem side because he was not deemed good enough at that level at the time. Whether he would be good enough now, or next season is another matter, but I would say that Bannan's work rate is probably higher than Sheridan's. Sheridan was not particularly well know for running around and tackling people was he, but on every other level and not having a go at Bannan here, just highlighting his weaker points, because his strong points are very very strong, but I would say that Sheridan had the edge. His passing was always purposeful and rarely put us in danger, whereas Bannan, even at this level does tend to make mistakes in most games, some of which are punished by chances on goal for the opposition, doing his one trick under pressure where he turns one way, then quickly back the other in dangerous areas, or makes silly passes backwards and forwards too often in defence when he is the player who should be playing the long ball forward, especially if it has to be made under pressure, not the defender, or playing balls out to defenders, or wingers which they have to slow down or stop for before having to pass it back wards or sideways because there is an opposition player in front of them. Those kinds of things happen less when Bannan is playing well, but he does them often enough to be a weakness when he is not quite at his best. Sheridan had so many different ricks up his sleeve and was always trying something new, maybe something he'd heard of, or seen in a foreign game, or something he had been working on in training that totally bamboozled everybody and made you want to watch it over and over again to see exactly how he had done it. On the ball Sheridan could get a yard of space against a marker using a number of different techniques and he would do them in sequences until he had the required space, unlike Bannan, who does the left turn/right turn thing then either manages to just get the ball away or gets tackled because the opponent knows what he is going to do next. I would also say that temperament wise, when he was riled, Sheridan would become so determined (once he had calmed down a bit) that he would rise to the occasion more often than not and would never let an opposing midfielder have the upper hand. Bannan can go into his shell, sulk for long periods of games and play in a more predictable way, which enables the opposition to take over. I have seen Bannan pull our strings and make us play in a certain way when he is on top form, but Sheridan could totally tie a team in knots and if was kept out of the game by tight marking, or heavy tackling he would pay them back with a goal from a corner, free kick, or penalty with unerring regularity. Yes ok I might be eulogising over a player we had yonks back, but we were totally in love with the fellow then because of what he did to the best midfields and the best defences in the country and the style and the swagger that he carried it off with. If you hear him talking, he sounds a bit shy and awkward sometimes, but never with the ball at his feet. He is one of the best midfielders I have ever seen and although Bannan comes close in some respects, I never watch one of his free kicks or corners expecting to see something special, although he can surprise you every now and again, he does not have the same consistency, or very high levels of skill and composure that Sheridan had. Sheridan was really a one off player and is very difficult to compare to any of the players we have had since, or prior to him, in my opinion of course maybe others have a different view.

This 

Couldn't agree more 

Excellent post mate

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2 hours ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

Sorry, but I would have to agree with WelshOwl74 on a lot of his points there. Bannan was let go by a Prem side because he was not deemed good enough at that level at the time. Whether he would be good enough now, or next season is another matter, but I would say that Bannan's work rate is probably higher than Sheridan's. Sheridan was not particularly well know for running around and tackling people was he, but on every other level and not having a go at Bannan here, just highlighting his weaker points, because his strong points are very very strong, but I would say that Sheridan had the edge. His passing was always purposeful and rarely put us in danger, whereas Bannan, even at this level does tend to make mistakes in most games, some of which are punished by chances on goal for the opposition, doing his one trick under pressure where he turns one way, then quickly back the other in dangerous areas, or makes silly passes backwards and forwards too often in defence when he is the player who should be playing the long ball forward, especially if it has to be made under pressure, not the defender, or playing balls out to defenders, or wingers which they have to slow down or stop for before having to pass it back wards or sideways because there is an opposition player in front of them. Those kinds of things happen less when Bannan is playing well, but he does them often enough to be a weakness when he is not quite at his best. Sheridan had so many different ricks up his sleeve and was always trying something new, maybe something he'd heard of, or seen in a foreign game, or something he had been working on in training that totally bamboozled everybody and made you want to watch it over and over again to see exactly how he had done it. On the ball Sheridan could get a yard of space against a marker using a number of different techniques and he would do them in sequences until he had the required space, unlike Bannan, who does the left turn/right turn thing then either manages to just get the ball away or gets tackled because the opponent knows what he is going to do next. I would also say that temperament wise, when he was riled, Sheridan would become so determined (once he had calmed down a bit) that he would rise to the occasion more often than not and would never let an opposing midfielder have the upper hand. Bannan can go into his shell, sulk for long periods of games and play in a more predictable way, which enables the opposition to take over. I have seen Bannan pull our strings and make us play in a certain way when he is on top form, but Sheridan could totally tie a team in knots and if was kept out of the game by tight marking, or heavy tackling he would pay them back with a goal from a corner, free kick, or penalty with unerring regularity. Yes ok I might be eulogising over a player we had yonks back, but we were totally in love with the fellow then because of what he did to the best midfields and the best defences in the country and the style and the swagger that he carried it off with. If you hear him talking, he sounds a bit shy and awkward sometimes, but never with the ball at his feet. He is one of the best midfielders I have ever seen and although Bannan comes close in some respects, I never watch one of his free kicks or corners expecting to see something special, although he can surprise you every now and again, he does not have the same consistency, or very high levels of skill and composure that Sheridan had. Sheridan was really a one off player and is very difficult to compare to any of the players we have had since, or prior to him, in my opinion of course maybe others have a different view.

Make your mind up... lol  

Edited by daveyboy66
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6 hours ago, WelshOwl74 said:

Yes he was relegated with us then went on to get promoted and win the league cup in 91 (scoring the winning goal)

Two cup finals and 3rd place finish in 93 

And a cup semi final in 94/95

And a promotion with a Bolton team that scored 100 goals in the process

 

What's bannan done?

Contributed 6 goals in 5 years and two back to back playoff failures ,got 60 games in premier league with 2 clubs and dropped at both within 3 months 

 

Anyone comparing Sheridan and bannans career is either blind ,daft or both.

 

Sorry mate, your memory is failing you.  We finished 3rd in 91/92, got to both cup finals in 92/93 and the FL Cup semi-final in 93/94.

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5 hours ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

Sorry, but I would have to agree with WelshOwl74 on a lot of his points there. Bannan was let go by a Prem side because he was not deemed good enough at that level at the time. Whether he would be good enough now, or next season is another matter, but I would say that Bannan's work rate is probably higher than Sheridan's. Sheridan was not particularly well know for running around and tackling people was he, but on every other level and not having a go at Bannan here, just highlighting his weaker points, because his strong points are very very strong, but I would say that Sheridan had the edge. His passing was always purposeful and rarely put us in danger, whereas Bannan, even at this level does tend to make mistakes in most games, some of which are punished by chances on goal for the opposition, doing his one trick under pressure where he turns one way, then quickly back the other in dangerous areas, or makes silly passes backwards and forwards too often in defence when he is the player who should be playing the long ball forward, especially if it has to be made under pressure, not the defender, or playing balls out to defenders, or wingers which they have to slow down or stop for before having to pass it back wards or sideways because there is an opposition player in front of them. Those kinds of things happen less when Bannan is playing well, but he does them often enough to be a weakness when he is not quite at his best. Sheridan had so many different ricks up his sleeve and was always trying something new, maybe something he'd heard of, or seen in a foreign game, or something he had been working on in training that totally bamboozled everybody and made you want to watch it over and over again to see exactly how he had done it. On the ball Sheridan could get a yard of space against a marker using a number of different techniques and he would do them in sequences until he had the required space, unlike Bannan, who does the left turn/right turn thing then either manages to just get the ball away or gets tackled because the opponent knows what he is going to do next. I would also say that temperament wise, when he was riled, Sheridan would become so determined (once he had calmed down a bit) that he would rise to the occasion more often than not and would never let an opposing midfielder have the upper hand. Bannan can go into his shell, sulk for long periods of games and play in a more predictable way, which enables the opposition to take over. I have seen Bannan pull our strings and make us play in a certain way when he is on top form, but Sheridan could totally tie a team in knots and if was kept out of the game by tight marking, or heavy tackling he would pay them back with a goal from a corner, free kick, or penalty with unerring regularity. Yes ok I might be eulogising over a player we had yonks back, but we were totally in love with the fellow then because of what he did to the best midfields and the best defences in the country and the style and the swagger that he carried it off with. If you hear him talking, he sounds a bit shy and awkward sometimes, but never with the ball at his feet. He is one of the best midfielders I have ever seen and although Bannan comes close in some respects, I never watch one of his free kicks or corners expecting to see something special, although he can surprise you every now and again, he does not have the same consistency, or very high levels of skill and composure that Sheridan had. Sheridan was really a one off player and is very difficult to compare to any of the players we have had since, or prior to him, in my opinion of course maybe others have a different view.

 

 

You put it so much better than our resident Welsh windbag.

 

 

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On 15/01/2020 at 18:03, HOOTIE AND THE poo TU said:

This is the moment Bannan saw the pass to Reach, the ball hadn't reached Borner yet, but Bannan could see the big picture

 

He knew Leeds were stretched, he knew the run that Reach would make if he could get the ball quickly

 

Not all midfield players have this vision, to some like Bannan, it comes easy, John Sheridan had this talent in abundance, and Bannan has it too

 

It's like a second sight, knowing where colleagues are going to be at any given moment

 

There's still an awful lot of work to be done when Bannan gets the ball, fortunately Reach has the quality to be in the right place and deliver the right pass,  and Nuhiu has the quality to deliver the shot

 

But it all started here, in the mind of Barry Bannan

 

Screenshot_20200115-175000_YouTube.thumb.jpg.2b04fe880f92758c575a31387abb84d4.jpg

I don’t know whether it’s a natural tendency or it’s instruction but I think Bannan sits too deep at times; I think he does most of his best work when he’s more advanced - not Kieran Lee territory but on the edge of the final third where he can orchestrate our attacks. 
 

For the record. I think Bannan and Lee are the best two players of the last 20 years and could have easily fitted in the early 90s squad. 

Edited by shandypants
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9 hours ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

 

If you are going to compare players then compare equally, you are cherry picking Sheridans successes against Bannans failures.    

 

If I remember rightly Sheridan was at Hillsborough when we were relegated, does that make him a Premier league flop?

 

Both are quality players and I loved watching them both play.  One is interchangeable with the other. 

 

 

 

You are both right and wrong at the same time.

Sheridan did ply his trade at the top of England's football at that time, and he didn't just do it adequately, he did it brilliantly.

You can argue about the team around Sheridan at the time being better quality, and i'd totally agree with you if you did taht.   Just like those around Bannan right now are not of anywhere near the quality that Sheridan had around him - but still, it's very hard to compare the two players all things considered.

Plus, as I said in a post previously, I do not actually consider them the same type of player anyway.

 

Personally, i'd stick Sheridan not just a notch above Bannan, but a whole bedpost - but this is personal opinion and I don't think its easy to gauge.

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7 minutes ago, Salmonbones said:

 

 

You are both right and wrong at the same time.

Sheridan did ply his trade at the top of England's football at that time, and he didn't just do it adequately, he did it brilliantly.

You can argue about the team around Sheridan at the time being better quality, and i'd totally agree with you if you did taht.   Just like those around Bannan right now are not of anywhere near the quality that Sheridan had around him - but still, it's very hard to compare the two players all things considered.

Plus, as I said in a post previously, I do not actually consider them the same type of player anyway.

 

Personally, i'd stick Sheridan not just a notch above Bannan, but a whole bedpost - but this is personal opinion and I don't think its easy to gauge.

 

Oi I'm never wrong :biggrin:, anyway its all subjective. I'm not saying that Bannan is better than Sheridan or even on a par. I Enjoy watching them both and if you put Bannan in Sheridans place he wouldn't have looked out of place (not better) he would have had better players around him for a start.

 

Would agree that they are not the same sort of player.

Edited by Inspector Lestrade
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13 hours ago, shandypants said:

I don’t know whether it’s a natural tendency or it’s instruction but I think Bannan sits too deep at times; I think he does most of his best work when he’s more advanced - not Kieran Lee territory but on the edge of the final third where he can orchestrate our attacks. 
 

For the record. I think Bannan and Lee are the best two players of the last 20 years and could have easily fitted in the early 90s squad. 

They might have got in the squad, but no way would they have got in the team

 

The midfield pairing of Sheridan and Palmer was the best I've seen in my 61 years following Wednesday.

Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife.

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