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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, torryowl said:

Yeah but would they welcome and be happy to share there tv revenue  with barnsley,Luton,Wigan,brentford etc etc .   Why on earth would the prem clubs want clubs like those take  a share of there money 

 

Ah there’s the thing. A PL2 would be a closed shop.

 

You won’t see those clubs getting ‘invited’.

 

8 minutes ago, sheffsteel said:


Years ago Bolton’s chairman suggested a PL2.

He could see the financial gap getting bigger between the PL and EFL.

There were concerns regards if a PL club was relegated then they would still be legally obliged to pay huge player contracts...meaning that club go into financial meltdown. At the tIme any PL club who thought they could possibly be relegated was interested in forming a PL2.

 

However a new solution was found...that solution was parachute payments.

This was democratically voted through because it offers several advantages to the PL and all the PL clubs.

The competition is better with a higher standard towards the bottom. Newly promoted clubs...even small clubs are encouraged to spend and be competitive because even if they are immediately relegated they still receive funds to afford those contracts. Any relegated club isn’t forced to sell off all their best players so have a better chance to regain promotion at the first attempt.

 

If clubs want a PL2....they would need to be able to persuade the other PL clubs why it would be such a positive for them.

They would also need to come up with a business model regards who those PL clubs would receive more money if they are expected to share the PL millions with other clubs in  PL2. Its seems impossible to expect any PL to vote through a PL2....when parachute payments achieves so much of what a PL2 would do.

 

Championship clubs can’t just set up a PL2..only the PL can set up a PL2.

 

 

 

100% can see it happening. A closed shop of two divisions will be wonderful for clubs who are sh*t scared of relegation.

 

i would be very surprised if conversations aren’t currently ongoing. All it would need is for those clubs working with the EPL to revoke their EFL membership and jobs a good un ...

Edited by danblakemore

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1 hour ago, torryowl said:

Yeah but would they welcome and be happy to share there tv revenue  with barnsley,Luton,Wigan,brentford etc etc .   Why on earth would the prem clubs want clubs like those take  a share of there money 

 

I assume you don't know that the Prem clubs already do exactly that in the form of 'solidarity payments'?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_parachute_and_solidarity_payments

 

 

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10 minutes ago, sheffsteel said:


Years ago Bolton’s chairman suggested a PL2.

He could see the financial gap getting bigger between the PL and EFL.

There were concerns regards if a PL club was relegated then they would still be legally obliged to pay huge player contracts...meaning that club go into financial meltdown. At the tIme any PL club who thought they could possibly be relegated was interested in forming a PL2.

 

However a new solution was found...that solution was parachute payments.

This was democratically voted through because it offers several advantages to the PL and all the PL clubs.

The competition is better with a higher standard towards the bottom. Newly promoted clubs...even small clubs are encouraged to spend and be competitive because even if they are immediately relegated they still receive funds to afford those contracts. Any relegated club isn’t forced to sell off all their best players so have a better chance to regain promotion at the first attempt.

 

If clubs want a PL2....they would need to be able to persuade the other PL clubs why it would be such a positive for them.

They would also need to come up with a business model regards who those PL clubs would receive more money if they are expected to share the PL millions with other clubs in  PL2. Its seems impossible to expect any PL to vote through a PL2....when parachute payments achieves so much of what a PL2 would do.

 

Championship clubs can’t just set up a PL2..only the PL can set up a PL2.

Agree with some of the other comments....every club is self serving....it’s all about chasing money and to hell with football as a whole.

 

 

 

 

I half expect the Premier League to change in a few years - top clubs to have a separate division across Europe and the second tier being domestic feeders into that.

 

 

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7 hours ago, DeeJayOne said:

 

Indeed, as I stated in the last line of the paragraph you highlighted.

 

However, regarding position - having internal hands-on experience of both Sheffield Wednesday and the Football League, as well as having to have a decent understanding of the rules, policies/procedures, how it all works together and the proper roles of all involved I’d suggest maybe I’m in a slightly better position than most observers reading the forum perhaps?

 

What is your role that means you need to have a decent understanding of these matters? When was the last time you had hands-on experience of Sheffield Wednesday? 

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I have a cunning plan.

 

SPEND, SPEND, SPEND.

 

Love Baldrick x

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Meanwhile SHaun Harvey earned 1 million in his last year for overseeing all the issues with Bury, Bolton, Coventry, Blackpool, Birmingham, us, Macclesfield, Southend....

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21 hours ago, DeeJayOne said:

 

Not only do clubs agree to what they are signing up to - clubs ARE the EFL. The clubs, including Wednesday create and approve the rules.

 

 

I think a lot of people miss this point and don't know what the EFL is, or how it works, so just to go over it:

 

There are 72 shareholders in the EFL. The 72 Football League clubs. Including Wednesday.

 

The EFL is non-profit. Any monies created by the EFL is distributed amongst the clubs as shareholders in accordance with the provisions of the rules created and agreed upon by the clubs.

 

 

The rules of the EFL are created by the clubs, including Wednesday:

 

Of course it is a collective and any decisions regarding the rules and structure of the EFL made are formed from that collective as a whole (Wednesday get just one out of 72 votes, effectively), and the collective is in flux (clubs promoted/relegated in/out of the league means the membership changes year-on-year) but Wednesday were represented at meetings deciding the rules, and as far as I am aware agreed to any implemented rule changes in regard to FFP, Profit and Sustainability and anything else. I'm not aware of Wednesday being against the creation or implementation of those rules at any point.

 

If Wednesday want a change to the rules, they just have to propose it and successfully lobby enough other clubs to vote to implement that change.

 

The clubs collectively sanction the EFL as a central representative of that collective to enforce the rules, to maintain integrity of the competition and the membership.

 

 

That said, the dispute Wednesday have commenced isn't actually about the league's rules:

 

From what I understand the action Wednesday are taking is actually about 'advice' given by the EFL over the sale of the ground rather than around the rules themselves. I suspect that the EFL's argument will be that the rules are the rules, as members create the rules they [EFL] aren't in a position to 'sanction' such sales and can only enforce rules after the fact, and that Wednesday as a part owner of the EFL and part creator of those rules should (and would) have known the rules for themselves... they will probably argue that Wednesday's argument proves we were knowingly trying to circumvent the rules to gain an advantage over the other owner-members of the league against the spirit of the rules, the competition and the integrity of the whole membership structure.

 

Objectively, It is hard to see how Wednesday come out of this well to be honest. A sympathetic judge/arbiter may see correspondence with the EFL as the regulatory body as somehow constituting advice, but will they go as far as to say it constitutes approval to go ahead? IANAL but personally, I doubt it (without seeing that correspondence and the full arguments, of course).

 

 

 

 

Seems a pretty fair assessment.

 

Additionally, there may well be a few instances where rules cannot be enforced as they go against restraint of trade or other company law. There are 24 separate companies in the Championship and each one has its own issues and its own way of working.

 

Interesting times, eh?

 

 

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21 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

failure payments should be forced to go into separate accounts and can only be used to pay up players contracts they cant afford to keep in the championship. 

That's exactly what failure payments were introduced for, but no club ever uses them for that!

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7 minutes ago, Spuddy01 said:

That's exactly what failure payments were introduced for, but no club ever uses them for that!

 

Exactly, but the EFL have allowed them to be classed as income, so the clubs used it to sign more expensive players. 

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2 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

 

Exactly, but the EFL have allowed them to be classed as income, so the clubs used it to sign more expensive players. 

Yep, making it nigh on impossible to compete with them.

Who actually made the rules regarding PP, the EFL or the EPL? 

Cause they blatantly don't care that clubs don't adhere to them.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Spuddy01 said:

Yep, making it nigh on impossible to compete with them.

Who actually made the rules regarding PP, the EFL or the EPL? 

Cause they blatantly don't care that clubs don't adhere to them.


The irony is that it’s the clubs themselves that collectively came up with these rules.....the governing bodies are there to try and enforce those rules.

Edited by sheffsteel

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2 hours ago, sheffsteel said:


The irony is that it’s the clubs themselves that collectively came up with these rules.....the governing bodies are there to try and enforce those rules.

I don't recall us voting to be £65m + down at the start of the last few seasons.

Who voted for what, and who didn't?

 

I've just noticed 'clubs have voted to scrap match day programmes...if they want to.

Never knew it was in the rules that they had to produce em before.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 07/01/2020 at 10:24, S36 OWL said:

The entire system will never work whilever the EFL are allowing teams to have the failure payments from the premier league. It has created a totally unfair competition and caused the problems we are now seeing. 

 

Been saying the same thing for years and I said so to the EFL in one of my emails regarding the actions that they are trying to take against us.

 

I suggested that the EFL should put in a wage cap for championship players. Their wages would be determined by their overall taxable income, which would include incomes from other sources, payments in kind, and all other perks and freebies so that there are no loopholes or dodges regarding tax, NI contributions or whatever. If any of the poor souls do have legitimate incomes form other sources then tough, their income from football will be reduced. They will still be on the same high incomes as everybody else, but no more! Relegated clubs would also have to adhere to a strict wage structure and cap that fits in with the same FFP rules that every other club has to adhere to. An agreed percentage of a clubs profits could be used to account for up to a ten percent increase in wages from the permitted cap, in the form of bonuses, but no more (maybe less than 50% of profits, to encourage investment in club infrastructure and longer term bonus plans). Which would allow sensible and profitable clubs (maybe with extra revenue from cup runs etc) to pay their players better bonuses and encourage players to perform better in all competitions. Clubs that refuse to follow these rules in future would be warned before the start of the season and dropped out of the league altogether, with teams promoted to take their place. The money currently given by the Premier league to relegated clubs should be divided up on a sliding scale between all the clubs in the championship with relegated teams getting a much smaller amount than those finishing 4th from bottom. A small portion of the money could even be fed down to leagues 1 and 2, if it is thought that there may be a knock on effect wealth wise, but something along these lines would make for a fairer system and we would finally get to see which players play for the love of the club and the game, and which players only want to play for the big bucks. Obviously these numbers are just examples and players playing on loan from the prem would have to be paid under the same EFL guidlines, depending which division they are in, which again would stop big premier clubs from amassing huge numbers of players and hiring them out. Players playing in each division would then be playing for more or less the same money, or up to a certain amount and we would hopefully then see an end to stupid wages taking clubs under and players being paid huge amounts of money that are not justified when the club paying their wages are struggling to pay other bills and businesses that are acting in good faith.

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