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Leaving A Player Up When Defending- Basic Common Sense.


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22 minutes ago, East coast owl said:

Yh I’ve noticed that. We did it at youth football..  do they get it coached out of them as professionals. if you leave 2 up they have to match you or leave 3 back. Less bodies in the box and a break away attack if we can find a pass or a hoof 


And the if the teams you play then send a couple of defenders into the box. What happens?

 

Their chance to score is far greater than yours. That’s why managers don’t see value in looking at opposition corners as offensive opportunities.

 

The chance of scoring from a counter from an opposites corner is extremely low - even lower than scoring from a corner. People hardly score when the keeper comes up...
 

So you protect first and attack second. There’s oodles of behind the scenes analytics to show that more defenders in the box means less probability to score

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21 minutes ago, McRightSide said:


And the if the teams you play then send a couple of defenders into the box. What happens?

 

Their chance to score is far greater than yours. That’s why managers don’t see value in looking at opposition corners as offensive opportunities.

 

The chance of scoring from a counter from an opposites corner is extremely low - even lower than scoring from a corner. People hardly score when the keeper comes up...
 

So you protect first and attack second. There’s oodles of behind the scenes analytics to show that more defenders in the box means less probability to score

But it takes at least one of their players out of our box. Attack is the best form of defense. 

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12 minutes ago, McRightSide said:


And the if the teams you play then send a couple of defenders into the box. What happens?

 

Their chance to score is far greater than yours. That’s why managers don’t see value in looking at opposition corners as offensive opportunities.

 

The chance of scoring from a counter from an opposites corner is extremely low - even lower than scoring from a corner. People hardly score when the keeper comes up...
 

So you protect first and attack second. There’s oodles of behind the scenes analytics to show that more defenders in the box means less probability to score

It’s fine margins. Sometimes you get a chance at 1 end and then 10 seconds later the ball ends up in the other net. I’d rather see someone on half way line just in case it does come out. Instead it comes straight back into our box unchallenged. Would the opposition risk leaving men unmarked on the half way line. They would have to leave someone back just in case. From a young age we always left 2 up top on set pieces. The opposition would match it or leave 3 back so not to leave a 2v2 on a break. Like I said fine margins. Seems daft cramming a penalty box at set pieces with no out ball. Im going to pay attention to other teams and see if it’s the norm or is it just a Wednesday thing

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Just now, Andrew_Owl said:

But it takes at least one of their players out of our box. Attack is the best form of defense. 


That’s exactly the point I was making.

 

The data shows that the chance of them scoring by having an overload at a corner far outweighs our likelyhood to profit from a 1 v 1 on the halfway line.

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7 minutes ago, East coast owl said:

It’s fine margins. Sometimes you get a chance at 1 end and then 10 seconds later the ball ends up in the other net. I’d rather see someone on half way line just in case it does come out. Instead it comes straight back into our box unchallenged. Would the opposition risk leaving men unmarked on the half way line. They would have to leave someone back just in case. From a young age we always left 2 up top on set pieces. The opposition would match it or leave 3 back so not to leave a 2v2 on a break. Like I said fine margins. Seems daft cramming a penalty box at set pieces with no out ball. Im going to pay attention to other teams and see if it’s the norm or is it just a Wednesday thing


How often does that happen though? Very rarely.

 

The Intention of defending a corner for most teams most of the time is the complete that phase of defensive work, ideally with - but not defined by regaining possession.

 

If you want an out ball the player needs to be 30 yards from goal which sucks the other players there too anyway.

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Leaving someone like Harris up gives us 10 bodies in the box to defend the corner. 

 

If they send their extra man up, they’ve got 8 (less Harris’ marker, keeper and corner taker). 

 

We should really be giving the team bottom of the league something to think about by leaving one of the fastest players in the league up top. He’s not beating Shawcross in the air, but I’d fancy him to beat any one of theirs over 20-30 yards. 

 

I’d understand getting everyone back if we’re defending a lead in the final minute of a genuinely crucial game but the way we defended all those set pieces we gifted them didn’t make sense to me today.

 

It’s frustrating that we seemed to have grown more resilient after píssing so many points away last month but here we are discussing defending corners like a Sunday League side after píssing away another 3 points

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10 hours ago, dewsburyowl58 said:

We do leave a player up on occasions, we didn’t today by the sound of it but to say we have never done it isn’t correct 

No we didn’t. There was about 20 bodies in the penalty area and outside.. we had no one to pick up the headers away or clearances and it just got lumped back into the box again. We were asking for trouble against a tall stoke side. We should have Harris and Murphy or reach near the half way line. It ties up there defenders plus we have pace to press the half way line. Very strange yesterday we didn’t even play the percentage game. 

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27 minutes ago, East coast owl said:

No we didn’t. There was about 20 bodies in the penalty area and outside.. we had no one to pick up the headers away or clearances and it just got lumped back into the box again. We were asking for trouble against a tall stoke side. We should have Harris and Murphy or reach near the half way line. It ties up there defenders plus we have pace to press the half way line. Very strange yesterday we didn’t even play the percentage game. 

This ^^^^. It'll be the same on Sunday against Cardiff, at home. 

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10 hours ago, McRightSide said:


How often does that happen though? Very rarely.

 

The Intention of defending a corner for most teams most of the time is the complete that phase of defensive work, ideally with - but not defined by regaining possession.

 

If you want an out ball the player needs to be 30 yards from goal which sucks the other players there too anyway.

Yes you defend a corner and phases. first ball and 2 balls. But You can’t regain possession because you have 20+ players in or around the box. Usually playing head tennis. And the ball gets put back into our 18 yard box with 20+ players hovering for another phase. I went yesterday and it was frustrating. We cleared the danger and then gave them another go at putting in a better ball.  Just watch the stokes 2nd and 3rd goal. 

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17 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

One of basics of the game is to leave a man up near the half way line at all times to give you an out ball when defending set pieces and opposition attacks. The amount of times we cleared the ball today only for it to come straight back was annoying. Their second goal came because of exactly this.  Leave either Harris or Murphy up there. Neither of them are going to win any headers defending, so have them as as outlet with their pace, which would have made Stoke keep two players back defending. 

 

I just cannot believe we didn't do one the basics today   and we were punished for it. 

 

Correct. Bob on.

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17 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

One of basics of the game is to leave a man up near the half way line at all times to give you an out ball when defending set pieces and opposition attacks. The amount of times we cleared the ball today only for it to come straight back was annoying. Their second goal came because of exactly this.  Leave either Harris or Murphy up there. Neither of them are going to win any headers defending, so have them as as outlet with their pace, which would have made Stoke keep two players back defending. 

 

I just cannot believe we didn't do one the basics today   and we were punished for it. 

We have been doing this for years

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22 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

One of basics of the game is to leave a man up near the half way line at all times to give you an out ball when defending set pieces and opposition attacks. The amount of times we cleared the ball today only for it to come straight back was annoying. Their second goal came because of exactly this.  Leave either Harris or Murphy up there. Neither of them are going to win any headers defending, so have them as as outlet with their pace, which would have made Stoke keep two players back defending. 

 

I just cannot believe we didn't do one the basics today   and we were punished for it. 

have to agree, no argument here.

add to that our lack of pace in the counterattack means bringing everyone back means we likely can't launch an attack in under 90 seconds.

two men on our posts for corners too.

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