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Chansiri charged - could be banned from football

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Just now, rickygoo said:


You seem to be very confident that the owner is in the wrong here ...  what do you know that everyone seems to not know ? Anything ?  Or are you just assuming and having a dig at owt that doesn’t suit your agenda ? 

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Starting to think Meire wasn't happy what was planned..and thought foook this i'm off, don't want no part of it.

Or maybe it was her idea...then later thought oh shyte, what have i done...i'm off.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

It never ceases to amaze me the things people have no problem posting on a public internet forum for anyone (and their lawyers) to read.

I've been saying the same thing, appparantly I'm defending Chansiri, perhaps when these people get sued into the back of beyond, they may learn.................... Ya know what, my sympathy meter would be stuck on zero. 

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11 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said:

 

P&S rules state:

2.3 The Executive shall determine whether consideration included in the Club’s Earnings Before Tax arising from a Related Party Transaction is recorded in the Club’s Annual Accounts at a Fair Market Value. If it is not, the Executive shall restate it to Fair Market Value.

 

The (EFL) executive we need to employ RICS registered valuation firm to do this, as SWFC did to do their original valuation. It's unlikely that another firm would vary significantly in values.

 

As with the accounts side, both disciplines are chartered and heavily regulated and a failure to abide by the strict methods and rules could lead to disqualification. This means it's very rare 'mistakes' happen, and firms don't contradict other firms in their field unless its in a full disciplinary case and 'expert witnesses' are called upon.

 

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11 minutes ago, sherlyegg said:

Starting to think Meire wasn't happy what was planned..and thought foook this i'm off, don't want no part of it.

Or maybe it was her idea...then later thought oh shyte, what have i done...i'm off.

 

 

 

Or maybe she just wanted a job nearer home.

 

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19 minutes ago, Royal_D said:


You seem to be very confident that the owner is in the wrong here ...  what do you know that everyone seems to not know ? Anything ?  Or are you just assuming and having a dig at owt that doesn’t suit your agenda ? 

Point docked for use of the word agenda. Another for not reading my posts but commenting in general about them. 

 

I have stated very clearly and carefully a number of times that we don't know. The EFL feel they have a case. I don't see why they would pursue it if there weren't some grounds for concern. Chansiri refutes it which is fair enough.

 

But people on both sides are saying things with certainty, that Chansiri has been cooking the books or there is clearly no case to answer. My point is we actually don't know  - all bets are off. I said auditors aren't infallible. I didn't say Wednesday's have cocked up. It's highly unlikely - but it happens and sometimes with massive firms full of expertise.

 

I question Chansiri's competence based on the accounts as they are stated - they are a flipping car crash. I question why he said what he said about us being in a P&S pickle in January 2019 when according the subsequent accounts it was already sorted  - but my emphasis is on him not being straight with fans as opposed to attempting to con the EFL. I am not saying he's a crook. I have cautioned against jumping to conclusions. 

 

I am not a big fan of the guy but I have no "agenda" other than wanting Wednesday to do well. 

 

Edited by rickygoo
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2 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Point docked for use of the word agenda. Another for not reading my posts but commenting in general about them. 

 

I have stated very clearly and carefully a number of times that we don't know. The EFL feel they have a case. I don't see why they would pursue if there wasn't some grounds for concern. Chansiri refutes it which is fair enough.

 

But people on both sides are saying things with certainty, that Chansiri has been cooking the books or there is clearly no case to answer. My point is we actually don't know  - all bets are off. I said auditors aren't infallible. I didn't say Wednesday's have cocked up. It's highly unlikely - but it happens and sometimes with massive firms full of expertise.

 

I question Chansiri's competence based on the accounts as they are stated - they are a flipping car crash. I question why he said what he said about us being in a P&S pickle in January 2019 when according the subsequent accounts it was already sorted  - but my emphasis is on him not being straight with fans as opposed to attempting to con the EFL. I am not saying he's a crook. I have cautioned against jumping to conclusions. 

 

I am not a big fan of the guy but I have no "agenda" other than wanting Wednesday to do well. 

 

 

I think you are being fair and level.

 

Your point about the timings is something no doubt the EFL will be looking at. The Dec 18 fans forum and subsequent comments in Jan 19 were all a bit of an emotional ramble, which was widely discussed on here at the time. Katrien Meire left in Feb 19, so she may have been aware of the ground sale plans, and proposal to extend the 17/18 accounts date before she left.

 

If not, someone has advised DC on the options from Feb - July 19, and on paper he's pretty much been legally acting alone for near on a year - John Redgate although FD is now just an employee of SWFC. DC's sole Directorship and owner status leaves him exposed - but I'm sure he knows that.

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9 minutes ago, Animis said:

Katrien Meire left in Feb 19, so she may have been aware of the ground sale plans, and proposal to extend the 17/18 accounts date before she left.

 

If the financial accounts reflect the true picture, given her status in the club, she should have known as it was already a done deal when she left. Unless she was being kept in the dark. 

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So if DC / accountants have made a mistake re- date of ground sale, what would be the bottom line...£30 - £40m overspend?

Brum were ...i think £10m..over and copped for a 9pt deduction.

Seems to me were likely to be at least double that anyhow...especially because we have previous, anything from 12 to 21 points was on the cards.

Of course the efl don't like loopholes, looks to me like dolls out of the pram. And the media go into frenzy giving their absolute worse case scenario...no doubt we will see shortley

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

I think you are being fair and level.

 

Your point about the timings is something no doubt the EFL will be looking at. The Dec 18 fans forum and subsequent comments in Jan 19 were all a bit of an emotional ramble, which was widely discussed on here at the time. Katrien Meire left in Feb 19, so she may have been aware of the ground sale plans, and proposal to extend the 17/18 accounts date before she left.

 

If not, someone has advised DC on the options from Feb - July 19, and on paper he's pretty much been legally acting alone for near on a year - John Redgate although FD is now just an employee of SWFC. DC's sole Directorship and owner status leaves him exposed - but I'm sure he knows that.

Looking at the accounts presumably the auditor satisfied themselves as to the timing of the transfer of Hillsborough. It's such a fundamental transaction that for them to get it wrong they would have to be duped rather than be mistaken. 

 

However, where does the value come from? Another company albeit a related one agreed to pay £60m for Hillsborough and a contract would be drawn up for the auditors to inspect. So in respect of the audit of Wednesday does it matter what the "real" value is. If it was overvalued, as long as the other company agrees to pay the said amount then does that matter in terms of this audit of these accounts?

 

I used to be an auditor, in fact an accountant, many moons ago so I have a basic grasp of accounts etc but I've lost track of it all. Have Wednesday said where the £60m value came from? There's no specific note in the accounts on the stadium sale. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

If the financial accounts reflect the true picture, given her status in the club, she should have known as it was already a done deal when she left. Unless she was being kept in the dark. 


She’s been charged too - according to the original article cited in the OP.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/12/02/exclusive-sheffield-wednesday-chairman-could-banned-football/

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5 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

So in respect of the audit of Wednesday does it matter what the "real" value is.

I have an accountant mate, the value has no bearing on what the efl allege. Though they might try and make it circumstantial...it wouldn't wash normally, though they may try to get support from other efl chairman.

 

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8 minutes ago, sherlyegg said:

I have an accountant mate, the value has no bearing on what the efl allege. Though they might try and make it circumstantial...it wouldn't wash normally, though they may try to get support from other efl chairman.

 

So if it's all about when rather than how much you would think there wouldn't be a case to answer.  But the EFL clearly feel differently  - I don't see why they would bring a totally spurious case, there'd be no point. I don't believe in a vendetta.  Let's hope it's dealt with reasonably quickly. 

 

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Whatever the outcome it makes me sick to the stomach what football has become.

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Sheffield Wednesday Football Club has today filed its response to the charges brought against it by the English Football League for alleged misconduct concerning the sale and leaseback of Hillsborough stadium and the inclusion of the profit on that sale in the Club’s 2017/18 accounts. The Club has informed the EFL that the charges are themselves unlawful and, without prejudice to that fact, are all denied by the Club and the other Respondents.

The Club has reserved all of its rights against the EFL and will take all such actions as are necessary to protect its rights and integrity, and those of its current and former officers, including in relation to inaccurate reporting. The Club has also notified the EFL that it stands ready to bring a claim against the EFL to obtain compensation for its conduct.

 

The Club maintains that it consulted with the relevant executive officers of the EFL in connection with the stadium transaction and that it acted in good faith. The Club has in its possession numerous emails, letters and other documents in which the EFL gave authorisation to the transaction, and on which authorisation the Club understood it could rely. That authorisation gave rise in law to a legitimate expectation that the transaction would be accepted by the EFL, which is binding on the EFL. The EFL is acting in breach of that binding legitimate expectation by retrospectively treating as misconduct that which it had itself previously authorised, and this makes the charges themselves unlawful. The Club is accordingly bringing its own claim against the EFL to establish that it is acting unlawfully, as well as standing ready, if necessary, to vigorously defend the charges.

The Club will make no further comment at this time.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mus said:

Whatever the outcome it makes me sick to the stomach what football has become.

All we had to do was stay within the rules, how hard can it be?  Chansiri is to blame not the EFL.

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