gurujuan Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) If A12 is suggesting Forestieri occupies a nominal wide left position in the current system, then I agree He offers more goal threat from that position, than any of the other wide players He is also the most adept at getting into the box, and would certainly be the player to get nearer to Fletcher. However, I don’t think he’d thrive in the middle in a 4-4-2 system, as he isn’t the type of player who’d thrive flick ons and knock downs Edited November 27, 2019 by gurujuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Holmowl said: Don’t pretend it hasnt been tried, or that it works. FF in this role has been tried since 2015, and results in fewer goals not more goals, and fewer points not more points. There are two shirts in the Xl which are perfect for him, currently being worn by the below par trio of Reach, Murphy and Harris. Do you really believe that Monk is putting these 3 (on their current form) ahead of Forestieri on ability? It’s more than that? It staggers me that people view this as a Nuhiu v FF issue. Those posters are looking at the wrong position. As an aside, take a look at how freely we score when Fletcher, Nuhiu and Forestieri are on. That’s because they then each play in their glaringly obvious best roles. still doubting FF / fletcher partnership?? FF showed he’s still a class act tonight and the front line when he was on looked ten times better!! The creativity improved and their defence suddenly realised they had things to think and worry about. The people That are saying FF is finished are clueless....tonight proved it. Give the lad a run of games in that forward position and things will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye West Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 After tonight’s showing, absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kanye West said: After tonight’s showing, absolutely. did you watch the same game? Or are you just basing it on the fact we didn’t win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye West Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said: did you watch the same game? Or are you just basing it on the fact we didn’t win? Yes I have been. My absolutely was in response to should we play 442. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 On 26/11/2019 at 07:22, Holmowl said: Why the clamour for 442? Based on the season so far, does it appear that 442 offers more likely success than 433? Our 442 games:- QPR 1-2 (Fletcher FF) Boro 4-1 (Fletcher Nuhiu) Hull 0-1 (Nuhiu Winnall) Leeds 0-0 (Fletcher Nuhiu) Swansea 2-2 (Fletcher Nuhiu) 442 - P5. W1. D2. L2. (1 point per game) 433 - P12. W6. D2. L4. (1.67 points per game) What is it about 442 that drives so many to think it’s the answer with our current squad? We scored 6 in 3 games with Fletcher and Nuhiu up front. And if your going to base your play around wingers putting crosses in the box your chances of scoring are higher with strikers at the near and far post. Conversely, we're not very accurate at crossing, but I was spoilt by watching Waddle's crossing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 I thought the midfield three worles very well first half, both Luongo and Lee played well. We seemed to have control of the midfield and the game and lost some of that when Lee went off. I'd just swap Foriesteri for Reach for next match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wednesday_Jack said: still doubting FF / fletcher partnership?? FF showed he’s still a class act tonight and the front line when he was on looked ten times better!! The creativity improved and their defence suddenly realised they had things to think and worry about. The people That are saying FF is finished are clueless....tonight proved it. Give the lad a run of games in that forward position and things will change. What partnership? After 5 minutes of hardly putting a foot right he went wide left when a Nuhiu came on and suddenly we looked a massive threat. He’s a wide forward, not a partner for Fketcher. Edited November 27, 2019 by Holmowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Holmowl said: What partnership? After 5 minutes of hardly putting a foot right he went wide left when a Nuhiu came on and suddenly we looked a massive threat. He’s a wide forward, not a partner for Fketcher. you didn’t see the several times that they linked up and tried to find each other in dangerous areas. Did we look better with both of them on the pitch?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said: you didn’t see the several times that they linked up and tried to find each other in dangerous areas. Did we look better with both of them on the pitch?? Once we had Nuhiu and Fletcher up top, with FF weaving magic out left, we looked excellent. I thought Harris looked threatening too out right cutting in. I’m genuinely not sure why you are peddling this as a Fletcher-FF “partnership”. It clearly wasnt. FF played striker with Fletch for 11 minutes, during which time we and he were poor. Once he went wide for the last 27 minutes we and he played far far better. Twas ever thus. Go back and watch Preston. FF came on - hopeless. Nuhiu came on and FF went wider - bingo. Watch Swansea. Were we and FF better or worse when Nuhiu came on and FF went wide left? Watch QPR. Tell me what you thought of the FF-Fletcher partnership for that 90 minutes. It was dire. In fact, it was more a divorce than a partnership. They probably averaged 40 yards between the two of them. It does not work. How can anyone not see how much better we looked last night with the FF-Fletcher-Nuhiu-Harris axis? It was so much more effective and so much better to watch. Edited November 28, 2019 by Holmowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Starling Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 We are playing a 4-1-4-1 which is a bit negative. Any chances we create are missed by Fletcher. Why not try 4-4-1-1. I'm looking forward to seeing the back of Lee, Bannan and Hutchinson for a midfield that's mobile and creative. They weren't good enough 4 years ago and certainly aren't good enough now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Once we had Nuhiu and Fletcher up top, with FF weaving magic out left, we looked excellent. I thought Harris looked threatening too out right cutting in. I’m genuinely not sure why you are peddling this as a Fletcher-FF “partnership”. It clearly wasnt. FF played striker with Fletch for 11 minutes, during which time we and he were poor. Once he went wide for the last 27 minutes we and he played far far better. Twas ever thus. Go back and watch Preston. FF came on - hopeless. Nuhiu came on and FF went wider - bingo. Watch Swansea. Were we and FF better or worse when Nuhiu came on and FF went wide left? Watch QPR. Tell me what you thought of the FF-Fletcher partnership for that 90 minutes. It was dire. In fact, it was more a divorce than a partnership. They probably averaged 40 yards between the two of them. It does not work. How can anyone not see how much better we looked last night with the FF-Fletcher-Nuhiu-Harris axis? It was so much more effective and so much better to watch. The second FF came on he looked bright and wanted the ball in and around the box. In those 11 minutes without Nuhiu, Fletcher and FF combined in very good moves which on another day would have lead to a chance (we are talking a couple of inches in the pass). Your basing your judgement QPR (lets be honest we all have off days and its not just the strikers at the moment)...the point is that Fletcher on his own simply isnt working and sitting FF on the bench as a spectator is absolute madness especially from a manager with Monk's experience. I totally agree that when FF, Nuhiu and Fletcher were all on the pitch, we looked far more dangerous than we did at any other time and that is the point of the thread....Fletcher needs support!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Fessi Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 26/11/2019 at 10:42, Kanye West said: Was going to post the exact same, I think that formation would suit us. Yes and yes. The players aren't the problem, the problem is since CC left we have 0 footballing identity and no distinct effective play style other than long balls to Fletcher or relying on FF/Harris/Reach to do something special. Neither of those things are going to get us promoted. Might get some stick for this but atleast Jos came in and tried something different, atleast he tried to change the shape of the team and get us playing a different way.(No excuse for him recognising it did not work...ever....not once....or exiling our best players....or playing Ash Baker as a RW). But i feel like we need a manager who can bring a proper footballing philosophy into the club. Monk's desired style of play seems very basic, low scoring games, heavily reliant on not conceding, over using big target men, direct football, dislike of flashy players, very safe...again nothing wrong with that, but is it working? Are we moving up the table? (That may sound harsh but I also feel in the last 7/8 games we've been VERY unlucky to not be walking away with 16 points instead of 7). It makes you wonder was appointing a very safe manager like Monk the right call? Or should we have rolled the dice again on a European import? I think we will get better over the Christmas period and the results will start coming in. As i mention i don't think we are playing bad we are just getting unlucky in games...once we can get rid of silly mistakes and letting leads slip in the last 10 minutes we can be up there. When i reflect on the last 8 games i don't look at any of them and think you know what, we deserved nothing from that...the only games where i felt we maybe didn't deserve to win were vs WBA & Blackburn...but even then a draw would have been a fair result. I can't see Monk ever changing from a variation of a 451/442/433, he's never done it and he's not got the balls for it...but its nice to wonder how we'd perform. Westwood Iorfa Hutchinson Borner Odubajo Bannan Luongo Reach Harris Fletcher Forestieri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Wednesday_Jack said: The second FF came on he looked bright and wanted the ball in and around the box. In those 11 minutes without Nuhiu, Fletcher and FF combined in very good moves which on another day would have lead to a chance (we are talking a couple of inches in the pass). Your basing your judgement QPR (lets be honest we all have off days and its not just the strikers at the moment)...the point is that Fletcher on his own simply isnt working and sitting FF on the bench as a spectator is absolute madness especially from a manager with Monk's experience. I totally agree that when FF, Nuhiu and Fletcher were all on the pitch, we looked far more dangerous than we did at any other time and that is the point of the thread....Fletcher needs support!! I am absolutely not judging it on QPR. I’m basing it on four seasons. I would be happy with one of two alternatives with FF playing. 433 with FF as wide forward, or 442 with FF where he played last night wide left. Both work really well. I’m really surprised we are not seeing it used more, given that Reach and Murphy are not doing well, and Harris has dropped his level/confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieB Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Holmowl said: Watch Swansea. Were we and FF better or worse when Nuhiu came on and FF went wide left? Swansea... This season? You mean the game Nuhiu started and went off with the team losing 0-1, only for FF to come on and the team scores 2 goals? That game? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LittleG Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 The problem with the way we play 4-3-3 is that our wide men stay too wide a lot of the time. If Harris had the ball wide, Reach should be coming in from his wing to support Fletch and vice versa when Reach has the ball. Fletch is far too isolated. FF is far better in this system cos he will get closer to Fletch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, RichieB said: Swansea... This season? You mean the game Nuhiu started and went off with the team losing 0-1, only for FF to come on and the team scores 2 goals? That game? Sorry yes ageing memory! It was Rhodes who came on to partner Fletcher wasn’t it? With FF moving out wide. Thanks. Same point - two proper strikers in partnership with FF wide is always a really good effective attacking move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, LittleG said: The problem with the way we play 4-3-3 is that our wide men stay too wide a lot of the time. If Harris had the ball wide, Reach should be coming in from his wing to support Fletch and vice versa when Reach has the ball. Fletch is far too isolated. FF is far better in this system cos he will get closer to Fletch. Said the same in the other thread It’s too basic, and relatively easy to defend against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlinOldham Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 5 man midfield with 3 at the back and 2 up top. Harris-Luongo-Bannan-Lee-Fessi that midfield could control any game and provide some serious threat and support where needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LittleG Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Said the same in the other thread It’s too basic, and relatively easy to defend against Why can't monk and the players recognise this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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