Chansiri, embargo and the players

[Mick De Lyons]

2 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Realistically he isn't going to sell the club unless he wants to write off probably £60-80m as we'd only fetch £30-40m. If he chose to do that, who would buy us... can't think of anybody with local links with that kind of money bearing in mind the new owner would probably have to fund £10m+ yearly losses even if we tighten our belt. So it would be another foreign guy and who's to say they'd be any better.

 

I kind of think that sometimes its the better the devil you know. Chansiri gambled on promotion in the first couple of years and it didn't happen. Over the last 18 months or so he hasn't got much wrong either in the transfer market or with appointing managers so maybe he's learnt. I know there's the stadium sale issue, but that's not through choice it's trying to cover mistakes he'd already made back in 2017.

 

We need to be careful about what we wish for as we aren't going to get promoted without a wealthy benefactor. We've no parachute payments and we don't have young players to sell for big money which is something the pigs, Norwich, Bristol or Brentford have done and that allows you to reinvest in the squad. We won't compete only signing frees and paying out the wages we'd be able to afford so we'd be back to being a lower half championship team with the odd trip to league one in there.

I think he'll have to take a cut on price to get anything back. It's a deal that hasn't worked out. He's said himself that it would take a few years to break even once in the premiership. You make a good point about the scale of investment involved by Chansiri, but I just can't see him staying around for a long time. So he other takes a massive cut to sell or sits quiet on his investment for at least five years. The other scenario is that he takes a big cut, but then gets a percentage of money from possible success in the future.

[Mike Hunt]

Some muppets around 

End of !

[Mick De Lyons]

1 minute ago, hugeowl said:

Some muppets around 

End of !

Starting with yourself fella

[asteener1867]

15 minutes ago, bobowl said:

Chansiri's first season was bloody awsum. I'm hoping he goes for it again. Couple of years of pain is worth it. If we had gone up he would be a god. He knows what he's doing now, next time we will properly go for it like Wolves did.

"Goes for it again"?

Well he can't really can he, not whilst staying within the rules,I'm afraid its time for DC to take it more cautiosly, Its no longer gambling to go up..its gambling with the club isn't it?

Theres a difference

[marshy]

Chansiri openly admitted he knew Very little when he took over. The biggest mistake imho was him getting rid of people who did know about football, and allowed himself to be suckered into listening to others who could well have been in it for their own gains. 

[Mike Hunt]

2 minutes ago, Mick De Lyons said:

Starting with yourself fella

Let me ask you a simple question 

What benefit would Chansiri selling the club have for us ?

[Steve Down South]

25 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

We need to be careful about what we wish for as we aren't going to get promoted without a wealthy benefactor.

Other clubs have shown that much can be achieved without a wealthy benefactor.  It could even be seen as an advantage, with clubs forced to  build in a sensible and sustainable manner, with talented players / staff all pulling in the same direction to achieve medium term objectives.

[the monk]

18 minutes ago, Mick De Lyons said:

I think he'll have to take a cut on price to get anything back. It's a deal that hasn't worked out. He's said himself that it would take a few years to break even once in the premiership. You make a good point about the scale of investment involved by Chansiri, but I just can't see him staying around for a long time. So he other takes a massive cut to sell or sits quiet on his investment for at least five years. The other scenario is that he takes a big cut, but then gets a percentage of money from possible success in the future.

All this is based on your assumption that D C is "done" at the club 

Any evidence you have for this ?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

2 minutes ago, Steve Down South said:

Other clubs have shown that much can be achieved without a wealthy benefactor.  It could even be seen as an advantage, with clubs forced to  build in a sensible and sustainable manner, with talented players / staff all pulling in the same direction to achieve medium term objectives.

Can you name the clubs that have as I can't think of any off the top of my head. The only ones I can think of sold young players for £10m+ to premier league clubs, like Utd did with Brooks. What I was saying is you need either 1. parachute payments 2. young players to sell for big money or 3. a wealthy benefactor. 

 

I can't think of any that don't meet one of those three criteria as that's where we'll be without Chansiri

[Hookowl]

1 hour ago, Mick De Lyons said:

I Think if he can get the right price he would sell. Besides, Chansiri knows his time at the club is done anyway, so I think he would sell at a lower value to get rid of it. 

 

57 minutes ago, Mick De Lyons said:

It's semantics, but he knows his time is over at the club. I'm sure his plan was to try and get the club into the premiership in his first two seasons and then sell it. It nearly happened, but now it's gone sour and it's just a drain on him. He will sell if he gets a decent price.

 

42 minutes ago, Mick De Lyons said:

That's what he say's, in reality he would take a price at a lower value to get rid of the club. He bought it to move his finances around and perhaps sell it for a profit if we got to the premiership.

 

You seem to know a lot about what DC knows and thinks.

 

 

 

Come on own up..........................................you're DC aren't you?

[torryowl]

1 hour ago, Dizzys Dad said:

Not much thought gone into that. You make it sound so simple and (with hindsight) blame DC for everything. If only that were the case. 

I wonder what you would have done (with hindsight), if you’d been unfortunate enough to be in his position. It’s easy to criticise others.

 

If it's not chansiri then who's fault is it ?....

[torres]

35 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

Think the bucks stops with Chansiri.
Hand on heart if someone gave me £100m to spend on Wednesday 5 years ago I reckon I would have done a better job. 
If I had made a complete balls up of it though I would expect to some criticism and by the same token if I made a success of it and SWFC were a Premier League club I would expect to get the plaudits. 

 

I agree,

I think it would take some doing to do a worse job.

 

He had almost a clean slate to start with  - we all know his intentions but the way he has executed them have been extremely poor, on and off the pitch.

 

He has been let down in certain areas, of course he has, but the majority of decisions made by the club under his tenure have been bad ones 

[room0035]

25 minutes ago, marshy said:

Chansiri openly admitted he knew Very little when he took over. The biggest mistake imho was him getting rid of people who did know about football, and allowed himself to be suckered into listening to others who could well have been in it for their own gains. 

For me this excuse doesn't wash anymore - use the excuse the first year but he has been here 4 years and is still making such basic mistakes month in month out.

 

He simply has not learnt anything from the last 4 years other than taking a business losing £5m a year and turning it into a business losing £20m a year that has not moved forward, the players here when he arrive are in large still here and he has saddled us with debt all be it underwritten by him due to years of incompetent recruitment and retention policy.

 

There is no one else to blame for this than the man in charge.

 

If DC continues to do it his way, in a few years we will be relegated, the fan base will dwindle and the club will only go one way and that's down the league until someone comes in with an ounce of business ability to run the club the way it should have been run from day one.

 

What business is DC in again as I am wondering if he is in fact a businessman at all and in fact it is his family running his businesses.

[Hookowl]

2 minutes ago, torres said:

 

I agree,

I think it would take some doing to do a worse job.

 

He had almost a clean slate to start with  - we all know his intentions but the way he has executed them have been extremely poor, on and off the pitch.

 

He has been let down in certain areas, of course he has, but the majority of decisions made by the club under his tenure have been bad ones 

 

Hafiz Mammadov

[Johnny Concrete]

1 minute ago, torres said:

 

I agree,

I think it would take some doing to do a worse job.

 

He had almost a clean slate to start with  - we all know his intentions but the way he has executed them have been extremely poor, on and off the pitch.

 

He has been let down in certain areas, of course he has, but the majority of decisions made by the club under his tenure have been bad ones 

 

Which is exactly why I cant understand people who are defending him, saying they hope he's in it for the long run. Its just potentially more long term damage to the club. Nice guy and all that but his financial business sense is borderline amateur, its amazing/shocking to think the club was a clean slate for him when he took over and now we've ended up in this situation.

[Frazzlebeak]

1 hour ago, Mick De Lyons said:

It's not certain that we will be found guilty over the selling of the club, but if we are, it's more likely to amount to a deduction of points than a fine. The one salient point about this situation, is that realistically the club can go nowhere whilst it's in this permanent cycle with regards to this financial embargo. If the points deduction happens, then it ends our promotion or play off hopes, but I don't think it will end in relegation, unless is a huge amount of points. So it's going to be likely a mid table finish.

 

In my opinion, this fine or a points deduction needs to happen. It's the only way to get the club out of this mess and will allow the club to operate in the transfer market properly again. Along with this, two other things need to happen. Chansiri needs to sell the club as soon as is possible and the squad needs a complete overhaul. The big earners need to go and the squad needs breaking up. Some players have been here too long and need moving on. I would personally sell or not offer contracts to Westwood, Palmer, Fox, Hutchinson, Pelupessy, Lee, Reach, Forestieri, Nuhiu, Winnall and Rhodes.

 

I do think that one person is to blame for this predicament and that is the Chansiri. He was the person in charge of the finances. He knew the rules or someone was advising him on the rules. He knew what he was spending in transfer fees and wages and he was the person that decided to sell the club to a company that part of his financial portfolio. He may have done these things for the best of intentions, but the current situation is entirely down to him. With the financial embargo still in place and the club currently for sale, plus an aging expensive squad on the books, it could be the right time to take the punishment of a point deduction if we are found guilty of breaking the EFL rules. 

 

What is your opinion ?

I wasn't aware Chansiri had sold the club?

[Watto]

54 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Realistically he isn't going to sell the club unless he wants to write off probably £60-80m as we'd only fetch £30-40m. If he chose to do that, who would buy us... can't think of anybody with local links with that kind of money bearing in mind the new owner would probably have to fund £10m+ yearly losses even if we tighten our belt. So it would be another foreign guy and who's to say they'd be any better.

 

I kind of think that sometimes its the better the devil you know. Chansiri gambled on promotion in the first couple of years and it didn't happen. Over the last 18 months or so he hasn't got much wrong either in the transfer market or with appointing managers so maybe he's learnt. I know there's the stadium sale issue, but that's not through choice it's trying to cover mistakes he'd already made back in 2017.

 

We need to be careful about what we wish for as we aren't going to get promoted without a wealthy benefactor. We've no parachute payments and we don't have young players to sell for big money which is something the pigs, Norwich, Bristol or Brentford have done and that allows you to reinvest in the squad. We won't compete only signing frees and paying out the wages we'd be able to afford so we'd be back to being a lower half championship team with the odd trip to league one in there.

 But we had our own senior players that should have been sold to bring some much needed finances in , Chansiri kept hold of them and that's why we find ourselves in the position we are in now !

[sonofbert2]

16 minutes ago, torryowl said:

If it's not chansiri then who's fault is it ?....

 

Ultimately the buck stops with him but he was sold a package by MM which included the advisors.

 

They almost pulled it off in year 1 and 2 then it all went a bit pear-shaped and has placed more weight on the shoulders of the FFP advisor who has followed the path of others around the stupid rules but MAY have come unstuck.

 

It wasn’t a daft plan when you look at what needs to be spent alongside who gets promoted in this league - only a very few have broken the mould in this regard.  Could have beens and should have beens have been done to death but this league is in every respect in the context of modern football; fine margins.

 

Fuckoff Wednesday!

[torryowl]

9 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said:

 

Ultimately the buck stops with him but he was sold a package by MM which included the advisors.....

 

 

Well I've learned summat there .....

[Animis]

On the main thread question of impact on players, it will only be a problem if we are looking to offer new contracts to those out of contract in June. I imagine the club have already got a 'retained' list and have commenced contract extension discussions. Should we get any penalties that impact the decision of either party between now and January and they don't sign, we may end up having to sell them in the window, or risk them walking away for nowt in June.

 

It's bad timing, and hopefully will be resolved quickly but somehow I can't see that, based on no precedent for the charges.

 

One thing that isn't clear is should we be found guilty, and we loose the ability to show the ground sale in 2017/18; we would immediately breach P&S, and face an automatic 9-point penalty. Would we also get a further points deduction for the attempted ground sale transaction, and if so what would the these be and would they be added at this point or could we defer them to say next season?