Guest mkowl Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, Animis said: That's useful to know. However, two questions: Why wouldn't existing use value be used - i.e investment value on a hypothetical commercial lease, which is what Derby (and Leeds did) have - these are market comps? If DRC method is used, why was pride park valued at £60m and majestic only £26.5m? Derby used the depreciated replacement cost approach I believe. I would have to recheck the accounts. Sure there was a chartered surveyor on the accounts thread who explained it as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanningtonowl Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Castleford Owl said: IF night follows day, would it not be an ideal opportunity to slash a fair chunk off matchday prices and try to get more casual or priced out fans back in the habit of going? It’s a tricky one though, potentially going to be a long and drawn out situation and could be a while before any sanctions are applied. Fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWLERTON GHOST Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Weve certainly come a long way since the full house days .... "Stadium announcer" Today's attendance is 19,654 Heady days Heady days .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanningtonowl Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 5 hours ago, sonofbert2 said: Tell them to fuckoff, seriously! They’ve had Bates and the dodgy Italian bloke who Lees caught snorting charlie on his desk. Everyone goes on about United who only 2 years ago had a truly secret embargo and avoided a winding up order by borrowing money from the Bin Ladens. The problem is the modern game and the need to be murky to compete for the big prize. The last bit. Not for me thanks. Not my moral compass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, stanningtonowl said: Perhaps if we had independent sponsors, shirt sponsor, advertising around the ground, executive boxes sold out, competitive match day entrance, a shop that sold stuff people wanted at prices they could afford, shirts out in July to catch the holiday period, normal sort of business stuff, Chanisiri wouldn’t have to fund everything. Even sell a player or two? I might take it to Dragons Den, make a fortune. How revolutionary!! Is it that hard to understand ?? Chansiri sponsors everything so he can put money into the club, take away that sponsorship opportunity and it limits even further how much he can chuck at the black hole whilst tryna stay in line with the chimps at the EFL and there rule book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said: Have a look at the BBC article on the case "The one final issue is the valuation of the stadium itself. Given that Reading sold their stadium for £27m and West Ham sold theirs for £40m, it does seem unusual for Sheffield Wednesday's stadium to be sold for £60m. The geographical location would suggest that it's not in a property area which is significantly higher than London or the home counties. Wednesday will have to simply provide evidence that the transaction was undertaken at arm's length, at market prices, with a report by a surveyor and also evidence that the transaction had gone through - in the form perhaps of stamp duty being paid at the initial date of the transaction." I don't see Hillsborough being worth more than West Ham's Upton Park, so I'd be surprised if they can produce am independent valuation of £60m, which wouldn't be questionable. Thus it's not a true and fair arm's length transaction, by the accounting standards being applied. Again we have probably 2 different things. Under accounting standards if you choose to re- value an asset like the stadium it should be done annually. That probably would be the depreciated replacement cost approach. The whole point is it's the value in use you are trying to assess what we call the fair value. This is not necessarily the same as how much the value is on a sale. It does seem to me that us, but Derby, Villa have used this theoretical accounts value to approximate to the sales value. Does that make sense ? The market value concept is again a theoretical approach using language of a willing buyer and willing seller. So it does not mean the willing buyer is looking at a value for it as housing or industrial units. More I want to have a football club, i need to have a stadium, it would cost 120m new or i could buy this one 2nd hand which I know has 50% useful life left. The willing seller is considering how much the willing buyer is prepared to pay. So very esoteric stuff It is a very different situation to an actual sale to a 3rd party as was the case with West Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 There is no room for sentiment, to move forward we need to break with tradition. I have zero problem in selling out to a faceless corporation such as Red Bull and tapping into the untold riches it brings if it brings us promotion and competing at the top levels in English and European football. Football has been ruined beyond all recognition by sky and the obscene amounts of money in the game, it is no longer a game for the common man on a Saturday afternoon, now its a multi billion pound business. Sadly teams like ours who cling to our moral compass and traditions get left behind and can not compete anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Scarlett Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Just opened some tins of John West Tuna. Drained weight on tin 112 grams.............actual drained weight.................90 grams ! Creative accounting. Wonder if Chansiri employs the same accountants in the family business ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanningtonowl Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Is it that hard to understand ?? Chansiri sponsors everything so he can put money into the club, take away that sponsorship opportunity and it limits even further how much he can chuck at the black hole whilst tryna stay in line with the chimps at the EFL and there rule book Hi Dephron. Your spelling and grammar are on a par with your accountancy. Edited November 16, 2019 by stanningtonowl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Is it that hard to understand ?? Chansiri sponsors everything so he can put money into the club, take away that sponsorship opportunity and it limits even further how much he can chuck at the black hole whilst tryna stay in line with the chimps at the EFL and there rule book For FFP purposes the sponsorship he pays for has to be at a market rate doesn’t it? So he’s trousering up cash he wouldn’t have to if the business was running properly. All this gonads calling people bedwetters and the like has been going on for years. We were bedwetters if we warned we’d choke off POTD fans, we were bedwetters if we warned about embargoes and now we are bedwetters worried about the sale of Hillsborough and the fact that it has had to plug a vast black hole and is being questioned by an organisation that has huge powers to do us damage if we’ve acted improperly. Maybe we’re just a bit concerned about the future of a club that means so much to so many people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Royal_D said: Find me one person who’s backed him ‘unconditionally’. You can argue all day long about money been spent in wrong places, but find someone else who’s got the finance and willing to do what Chansiri does here ? If the EFL send a huge fine who’s pocket is it gonna come out of ? Too many fans still think the extra money on ticket prices funds this club, and yes I’m more than feckin aware the tickets are expensive bore off , but reality is Chansiri funds this club 100% and I wanna know how these regulations the EFL impose are protecting the club ? When it’s likely we will lose our beneficiary through it If Chansiri funds the club 100%, why do we charge high ticket prices? No one is arguing that Chansiri doesn't fund an excruciatingly large % of the club, but to say he funds the club 100% is such an obvious mistruth I don't know how you can type it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 minute ago, StudentOwl said: If Chansiri funds the club 100%, why do we charge high ticket prices? No one is arguing that Chansiri doesn't fund an excruciatingly large % of the club, but to say he funds the club 100% is such an obvious mistruth I don't know how you can type it. Who else is paying the bills ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mighty wednesday Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 What I don't understand is why they took us out of the soft embargo if they thought there was something wrong with the ground sale or the accounts.The time to question all of this should have been prior to lifting the embargo when we sent them the accounts.Surely if we disputed any punishment in a court of law the lack of clarity should work in our favour.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage owl Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Royal_D said: Who else is paying the bills ? What am I paying for ?. Do I not contribute to the bills, if not can I have a cheaper season ticket next year please. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Who else is paying the bills ? He should let us in for nowt then if our cash is irrelevant. Be mean not to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 minute ago, rickygoo said: He should let us in for nowt then if our cash is irrelevant. Be mean not to. Ticket prices are a rip off, never denied it , Footballs a rip off period in all honesty It’s clearly a pricing structure he believes in, maybe got to be seen to be making an effort to claw something back or try to make the club pay for itself If you think the high ticket prices contribute to the daily running costs or scratch surface of the wage bill your a mile off in my opinion, take out Chansiris money you have no club at present For this club to operate with minimal loss it needs to be ran like Milan Mandaric ran it, will that see us compete for the PL ? Highly unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legendaryswan Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Ticket prices are a rip off, never denied it , Footballs a rip off period in all honesty It’s clearly a pricing structure he believes in, maybe got to be seen to be making an effort to claw something back or try to make the club pay for itself If you think the high ticket prices contribute to the daily running costs or scratch surface of the wage bill your a mile off in my opinion, take out Chansiris money you have no club at present For this club to operate with minimal loss it needs to be ran like Milan Mandaric ran it, will that see us compete for the PL ? Highly unlikely so how did the scrubbers do it with just a 10M debt? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 The last set of accounts showed a £2.5m profit but we made £38m profit selling Hillsborough. So that would have been a £35m loss in one year - when FFP only allows £39m losses over three years and we’d lost £20m the year before and our turnover was only £25m. I know various bits of exempt expenditure muddies the waters but I don’t see how that can in any way be regarded as responsible management of the club by an allegedly top businessman. And without the £18m we as fans put in via ticket income there would be no club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, rickygoo said: The last set of accounts showed a £2.5m profit but we made £38m profit selling Hillsborough. So that would have been a £35m loss in one year - when FFP only allows £39m losses over three years and we’d lost £20m the year before and our turnover was only £25m. I know various bits of exempt expenditure muddies the waters but I don’t see how that can in any way be regarded as responsible management of the club by an allegedly top businessman. And without the £18m we as fans put in via ticket income there would be no club. It isn't when we have Rhodes and Winnall sat in the stands and Nuihu, Palmer, Fox and 3/4 of the 2016 team starting games. No disrespect to these players but we've spent to promotion levels and got a mid-table bunch of players. The last three years have been a mess with the transfers and events on the field and this is now impacting the off-the-field planning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, legendaryswan said: so how did the scrubbers do it with just a 10M debt? With one of the best managers in the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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