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2 minutes ago, Royal_D said:

If the EFL take Chansiri to the cleaners and he packs it up and goes back home (highly likely)  how will that look on the EFL ?  Regulations in place to PROTECT a club who could potentially then lose an owner with the finance and willing to fund the black hole at Hillsborough , what’s gonna happen then ? A club in financial turmoil that could easily be another Bolton /Bury 

And if that is a real possibility that’s exactly why people who have backed Chansiri unconditionally have been naive. Dave Richards was a hero once. 

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7 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

And if that is a real possibility that’s exactly why people who have backed Chansiri unconditionally have been naive. Dave Richards was a hero once. 


Find me one person who’s backed him ‘unconditionally’.   You can argue all day long about money been spent in wrong places, but find someone else who’s got the finance and willing to do what Chansiri does here ?  If the EFL send a huge fine who’s pocket is it gonna come out of ? 
 

Too many fans still think the extra money on ticket prices funds this club, and yes I’m more than feckin aware the tickets are expensive bore off , but reality is Chansiri funds this club 100% and I wanna know how these regulations the EFL impose are protecting the club ? When it’s likely we will lose our beneficiary through it 

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11 hours ago, Neon Nick said:

Here in the USA, and Wednesday does have quite a following here, we don't understand the concept of P & S.  Who cares how much money a Team loses?  If the Owner want's to keep losing money, he (or she) is free to do so.  As far as spending money goes, we have a thing called "salary cap", everybody gets to spend the same amount of money on Players, which prevents the scenario wherein one Owner can simply buy all of the good Players.  Let's say the "cap" is $100,000,000,  this means the Team can spend $100,000,000, they can sign, 5 Players at $20,000,000 per season, or one Player at $100,000,000 for one season, and so on.  Nobody cares whether or not the Team makes money, it's up to the Owner to decide about P & S, and billionaires, if they like something, don't care how much it costs to maintain, while it generates zero income, for instance 300' yachts, their own personal Boeing 757, grand estates in 10 different Nations.  This is Chansiri, he doesn't care about the money, he LIKES Wednesday.  His biggest mistake was in not realizing that he can't spend according to his ability to spend.

 

I like the mechanical structure of English Football, a Tier 4 Club can, and probably has, risen to the 1st tier, I do not like the financial structure of English Football.  In any case, I will continue to support SWFC, no matter the Tier in which we play.  Can't be any worse than the 1970's.  Call me a "happy clapper" or whatever, I call myself a Fan, for better or worse.  See you next Season, in whatever Tier.

That's a much fairer way.

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43 minutes ago, shez owl said:

The HUGE difference is that those clubs were either skint, going through boardroom turmoil, not paying the taxman and/or players or all 3, we most definitely are not like those clubs, that’s my real issue of this, we are not being asset stripped, not insolvent, not breaking the law. 

 

There is a difference as things stand, you’re right. But there’s always a chain of events leading to those issues. I’m not saying those things will happen but they could. We’re ticking a few boxes along the road.

 

Also, in a thread about our owner selling our biggest asset to a third party, albeit one he currently owns, it’s hard for me to agree that we haven’t been stripped of an asset. Never mind the fact we’re only ‘solvent’ due to huge lending from the owner. I recall one part of auditing is convincing them that the lending will continue for the next financial year as we’d be f*cked within that time if it ceased.

 

Seems like we’re currently dependent on DC’s continued enthusiasm and his unwillingness to lose a lot of money. Owners can and have change their minds and accepted losses. Again, not saying it will at all but these possibilities are all very real. He’s always seemed like a committed loyal guy to me so hopefully that continues.

Edited by Sonny
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4 hours ago, mkowl said:

 

It would fall due on completion not exchange of contracts.

 

Accounting wise you would probably recognise the transaction in the books on exchange of contracts not completion, if it was a fairly binding contract.

 

There is no stipulation in law at the length of time between the two dates

 

So the stamp duty point is a red herring

 

 

 

OK, I get that thanks. 

If the contract specified that payment was to be made over a number of years, as may or may not be the case here, how would the profit then be accounted for? Could it be taken into just one year (which I’m guessing is the case if the plan was to avoid ffp) and the outstanding payment be in debtors? If so, how/when would stamp duty be paid? When would completion be deemed to happen?

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1 hour ago, theowlsman said:

UTO and feck the lot of them.

Shakespeare if I'm not mistaken ?

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21 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

He could save himself and us a lot of pain if he took advice, and had a better plan.

 

Is that too much to ask ?

 

He bought both the advice and the plan when he bought the club.

 

 

34 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

And if that is a real possibility that’s exactly why people who have backed Chansiri unconditionally have been naive. Dave Richards was a hero once. 

 

Sir Dave Richards is our FFP Compliance Consultant.

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2 hours ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

Contract between swfc ltd and DC, Agreement is for DC to purchase through a company he is to set up?

 

Think it's more case of a catalogue of decisions made to circumvent the FFP rules that EFL are unhappy with, every one in isolation may be valid but combined they see it as misconduct

 

Thanks, definitely sounds likely to be a lawyers interpretation of the rules then even if the auditors have acted above board. I don’t think that bodes particularly well really - they’re the EFLs rules after all and I don’t really care how independent the panel will claim to be. Where it goes after that, I’ve no idea? The court of arbitration for sport or something eventually if we feel our case is that strong. I dunno.

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24 minutes ago, Royal_D said:


Find me one person who’s backed him ‘unconditionally’.   You can argue all day long about money been spent in wrong places, but find someone else who’s got the finance and willing to do what Chansiri does here ?  If the EFL send a huge fine who’s pocket is it gonna come out of ? 
 

Too many fans still think the extra money on ticket prices funds this club, and yes I’m more than feckin aware the tickets are expensive bore off , but reality is Chansiri funds this club 100% and I wanna know how these regulations the EFL impose are protecting the club ? When it’s likely we will lose our beneficiary through it 

Virtually unconditionally then - can’t be arsed to trawl through millions of posts. Bore off about having the most expensive tickets in the Football League? Point made. 

 

We’re probably suffering from the inaction re Bury etc. Rick Party will be much more hands on and pre-emptive from now on I suspect.

 

Regardless of the specific timing of the ground sale the mere fact it happened at all is evidence of colossal mismanagement. Near misses don’t count if you don’t prepare for them and they drop you in he doo doo big style. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Virtually unconditionally then - can’t be arsed to trawl through millions of posts. Bore off about having the most expensive tickets in the Football League? Point made. 

 

We’re probably suffering from the inaction re Bury etc. Rick Party will be much more hands on and pre-emptive from now on I suspect.

 

Regardless of the specific timing of the ground sale the mere fact it happened at all is evidence of colossal mismanagement. Near misses don’t count if you don’t prepare for them and they drop you in he doo doo big style. 

 

 

Most expensive tickets in the FL?

 

Most expensive second tier tickets in the WORLD!  In fact UNIVERSE if there are no aliens.

 

Hardly boring, astronomically ridiculous pricing without doubt, especially for a club based in one of the poorest areas of a city that’s in one of true poorest areas of the country.

Edited by goodytheowl

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3 hours ago, torres said:


I wouldn’t trust DC to understand the rules of pass the parcel never mind any EFL financial regulations 

The rules of pass the parcel have changed recently and there’s talk of VAR being introduced to see who has their hand on the parcel when the music stops. 

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The EFL has been made to look incompetent and stupid over the Bury and Bolton farces and are looking for a scapegoat , and it looks like we are it.

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1 minute ago, S36 OWL said:

The EFL has been made to look incompetent and stupid over the Bury and Bolton farces and are looking for a scapegoat , and it looks like we are it.

It is their way of reassuring authority etc.

 

Thing is...I don't think this is the end of it.

 

The EFL, the p and s rules...big questions about all of it. 

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1 hour ago, Animis said:

I wonder why we just didn't post the accounts on time, showed the loses which breached P&S and took the points deduction last season.

 

We could have then sold the ground in 2018 for the next accounts and started afresh, with a new 3-year plan.

 

DC has played Icarus on this and risked whatever strategy he had.

It really makes no sense at all.

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1 minute ago, S36 OWL said:

The EFL has been made to look incompetent and stupid over the Bury and Bolton farces and are looking for a scapegoat , and it looks like we are it.


I blame both clubs you mentioned more than the EFL

 

While the EFL won’t win any best organisation awards - a lot of clubs, ours included are unbelievably badly run 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

We are breaking the law though. There are accounting standards, which state that transactions like the stadium sale should be dealt with at a true and fair arm's length value. These aren't EFL rules, they apply to all businesses.

 

The club will come unstuck for this reason. We're bending over backwards to comply with EFL rules and seem to have completely disregarded accounting standards.

 

That said the club is clearly a going concern as Mr C is still bank rolling the operation at all cost.

 

I can't see why they can't get this sorted next week in all honesty. It's an open and shut case for me. We're in the wrong unless Mr C has the independent valuation and the stamp duty records paid in that financial year, which unless he has a time machine I'd been surprised he has. 

 

I can't fault him for trying, but I think he's been badly advised again. 

Accounting Standards are not laws though. If we are breaking laws then I have to ask why a firm of auditors present and sign the accounts off. In fact if the practices used are not meeting accountancy standards and/or wilfully breaking the law of the land then it seems to be a silly thing to do on their behalf. If we are breaking laws I’m pretty sure the SFO would be knocking on doors and hauling us infront of a court? Has the sale gone through or not? is it registered with the land registry meaning it’s legally done? 
The EFL statement doesn’t say anything about their not being a sale they are concerned with process. So until we are under a police caution and being investigated by the SFO I cannot agree that we have broken any laws.

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1 hour ago, Animis said:

I wonder why we just didn't post the accounts on time, showed the loses which breached P&S and took the points deduction last season.

 

We could have then sold the ground in 2018 for the next accounts and started afresh, with a new 3-year plan.

 

DC has played Icarus on this and risked whatever strategy he had.

I've been thinking this.

 

Why not just take the hit this season? 

 

It would have been say minus 9 at worst.

 

Instead, we played our last ace, but  seemingly did so too late.

 

Now we face a points deduction  of up to 21 points and having the clubs name dragged through the gutter.

 

 

Edited by SiJ

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40 minutes ago, WBridgfordowl said:

 

OK, I get that thanks. 

If the contract specified that payment was to be made over a number of years, as may or may not be the case here, how would the profit then be accounted for? Could it be taken into just one year (which I’m guessing is the case if the plan was to avoid ffp) and the outstanding payment be in debtors? If so, how/when would stamp duty be paid? When would completion be deemed to happen?

Ignore when the cash is paid. It is recognised in the accounts when the contract is signed.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Virtually unconditionally then - can’t be arsed to trawl through millions of posts. Bore off about having the most expensive tickets in the Football League? Point made. 

 

We’re probably suffering from the inaction re Bury etc. Rick Party will be much more hands on and pre-emptive from now on I suspect.

 

Regardless of the specific timing of the ground sale the mere fact it happened at all is evidence of colossal mismanagement. Near misses don’t count if you don’t prepare for them and they drop you in he doo doo big style. 

 

 


Surely the specific timing of the ground sale is the only issue here ? They can’t charge us for selling the ground, unless Derby and Reading are gonna get done aswell
 

Ticket price debate is boring yeh , done to death there a rip off but football on the whole is a rip off  , despite what many think the income off them doesn’t even scratch the surface when it comes to funding this club 

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IF we get a heavy points deduction, would  it not be an ideal opportunity to slash a fair chunk off matchday prices and try to get more casual or priced out fans back in the habit of going? It’s a tricky one though, potentially going to be a long and drawn out situation and could be a while before any sanctions are applied.

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