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14 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

Well Mitrovic and Rodruigez are both on base salaries of £60k. 

 

And the average salary bill for Championship clubs is £34m. So we are pretty much bang average there. When you realise Stoke had 9 players on £50,000pw or more in 2018, I don't think we have gone totally bonkers tbh.

What I was trying to say is we have a striker on £40,000 a week at least who got 11 goals from 40 games last season the first time he has got to double figures for us, compare what he has costs us so far to the other loan strikers getting 20 goals +.

 

Fletcher has been one of our best players in the last 18 months but is he value for money with what we could get in the striking department for what we are paying for him. See below Abrahams was on £42,000 a week at Villa where he scored 25 goals in 37 games and was a big reason why they are now a premiership team

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/06/chelsea-ace-tammy-abraham-triple-salary-seals-transfer-away-stamford-bridge-8314290/

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34 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

Well Mitrovic and Rodruigez are both on base salaries of £60k. 

 

And the average salary bill for Championship clubs is £34m. So we are pretty much bang average there. When you realise Stoke had 9 players on £50,000pw or more in 2018, I don't think we have gone totally bonkers tbh.

 

We haven’t gone bonkers AT ALL when you contrast us with the rest of the league.

 

All clubs pay money for players and wages that don’t work out.

 

The biggest spenders generally go up.

 

The limits are lower than the “normality” and haven’t budged for at least 5 years.

 

Too much, too soon would be the words to sum us up.  Improvement, players, wages and ticket prices.

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15 minutes ago, room0035 said:

What I was trying to say is we have a striker on £40,000 a week at least who got 11 goals from 40 games last season the first time he has got to double figures for us, compare what he has costs us so far to the other loan strikers getting 20 goals +.

 

Fletcher has been one of our best players in the last 18 months but is he value for money with what we could get in the striking department for what we are paying for him. See below Abrahams was on £42,000 a week at Villa where he scored 25 goals in 37 games and was a big reason why they are now a premiership team

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/06/chelsea-ace-tammy-abraham-triple-salary-seals-transfer-away-stamford-bridge-8314290/

 

Well Jay Rodruigez also cost £14m and Dwight Gayle cost £11m. Add that into their salaries and you've got a very heft cost per goal, compared with Fletcher who was free. 

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Just now, toppOwl said:

 

You've made some decent points on this thread but can I ask how you've arrived at these figures, DC said no player was more than £35k a week.

DC also said he sold the ground in 2018 and the leasehold to another company (who didn't exist at the time of the transaction)

 

I have gone by press details on the deals and if anything under valued what the players are probably costing the club not factoring in costs to the club on National insurance, pension costs, bonuses and incentives.

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, room0035 said:

DC also said he sold the ground in 2018 and the leasehold to another company (who didn't exist at the time of the transaction)

 

I have gone by press details on the deals and if anything under valued what the players are probably costing the club not factoring in costs to the club on National insurance, pension costs, bonuses and incentives.

 

 

 

 

 

Total guesswork then, just wondered.

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14 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

Well Jay Rodruigez also cost £14m and Dwight Gayle cost £11m. Add that into their salaries and you've got a very heft cost per goal, compared with Fletcher who was free. 

But not when they were on loan in the championship. Yes they were signed for that money but in the championship the goal is to get promoted to the riches of the premier league.

 

If we could have got a 20+ goal scorer in for £2 or 3m a season it would have been worth a lot more to us that the combine we are spending on Fletcher/Rhodes/Winnall/Nuihu.

 

Our use of the loan market has been very poor over the last 4 or 5 years when you compare the likes of the Wickham and barkley loans we have not been very savvy.

 

Going forward in order to compete at the top of the league we need to find ways to get the best players in but not for big fees or silly salaries.

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Just now, room0035 said:

But not when they were on loan in the championship. Yes they were signed for that money but in the championship the goal is to get promoted to the riches of the premier league.

 

If we could have got a 20+ goal scorer in for £2 or 3m a season it would have been worth a lot more to us that the combine we are spending on Fletcher/Rhodes/Winnall/Nuihu.

 

Our use of the loan market has been very poor over the last 4 or 5 years when you compare the likes of the Wickham and barkley loans we have not been very savvy.

 

Going forward in order to compete at the top of the league we need to find ways to get the best players in but not for big fees or silly salaries.

 

So for a £14m striker, that's more than likely a £4m fee, plus £60,000pw in wages. A big gamble for a player you won't own for a resale if it goes boobies up.

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15 minutes ago, room0035 said:

DC also said he sold the ground in 2018 and the leasehold to another company (who didn't exist at the time of the transaction)

 

I have gone by press details on the deals and if anything under valued what the players are probably costing the club not factoring in costs to the club on National insurance, pension costs, bonuses and incentives.

 

 

 

 

 

This is one side of the argument that gets rolled out everytime someone wants to back up an argument against DC, in this case you appear to use it to suggest that DC is a liar.

 

What has been done may or may not transpire to be within the EFL Rules, but as has been stated on here many times by a couple of our Qualified Accountant posters, that what appears to have been done can be properly done under accepted accountancy practices. If that's the case then DC would not be lying about having sold the ground.

"nobody told me there would be days like these!"

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3 minutes ago, toppOwl said:

 

Total guesswork then, just wondered.

No but I don't blindly believe everything the chairman says as gospel.

 

DC stated at the fans forum he had put the club up for sale then a few weeks later said he never said that. but in another article said he had had two offers for the club one for £40m that did not match his valuation

 

DC in January 2019 stated that we were going to break FFP by a 8 figure sum, then submitted the accounts saying the club had sold the ground in July 2018 making that we were under the limits and not in breach of the rules - which was correct DC or the filed accounts.

 

In the fans pole we were given the option high prices for continued investment in the team, or lower prices and a team full of loans, free agents. instead we now have a team full of loans and free agents and high prices.

 

So when you believe everything DC says I also think you have to look at the facts available from elsewhere when we sign a player from Boro for £10m on over £40k a week who to that point was a 20 goals a season man in the championship, there is no way he is going to take a pay cut to drop a division to sign for us. But I am sure DC says he did.

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3 minutes ago, room0035 said:

So when you believe everything DC says I also think you have to look at the facts available from elsewhere when we sign a player from Boro for £10m on over £40k a week who to that point was a 20 goals a season man in the championship, there is no way he is going to take a pay cut to drop a division to sign for us. But I am sure DC says he did.

 

What is that based on?

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3 minutes ago, room0035 said:

No but I don't blindly believe everything the chairman says as gospel.

 

DC stated at the fans forum he had put the club up for sale then a few weeks later said he never said that. but in another article said he had had two offers for the club one for £40m that did not match his valuation

 

DC in January 2019 stated that we were going to break FFP by a 8 figure sum, then submitted the accounts saying the club had sold the ground in July 2018 making that we were under the limits and not in breach of the rules - which was correct DC or the filed accounts.

 

In the fans pole we were given the option high prices for continued investment in the team, or lower prices and a team full of loans, free agents. instead we now have a team full of loans and free agents and high prices.

 

So when you believe everything DC says I also think you have to look at the facts available from elsewhere when we sign a player from Boro for £10m on over £40k a week who to that point was a 20 goals a season man in the championship, there is no way he is going to take a pay cut to drop a division to sign for us. But I am sure DC says he did.

 

I'm not going through the selling of the club thing again, I was there he didn't say it. Like I mentioned earlier you've made some decent points but then used speculation as fact and derailed them.

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6 minutes ago, Striggy said:

 

This is one side of the argument that gets rolled out everytime someone wants to back up an argument against DC, in this case you appear to use it to suggest that DC is a liar.

 

What has been done may or may not transpire to be within the EFL Rules, but as has been stated on here many times by a couple of our Qualified Accountant posters, that what appears to have been done can be properly done under accepted accountancy practices. If that's the case then DC would not be lying about having sold the ground.

DC said in January 2019 we would breach the FFP rule by an 8 figure sum why would he say this is the account to 31 July 2018 (6 months early) we had sold the stadium to make sure we would be in line with the loss levels.

 

Thinks like this make me not believe everything that comes out of DC mouth.

 

As for you second paragraph as I have said in this thread on numerous occasion if DC himself had bought the club not a third party company he would be fine, but what has happen as far as I am aware and the main problem with the EFL the paperwork say the club where bought by a company that did not exist at the time the contract was signed. in law the courts would look at the substance of the contract over the legal form.

 

in laymans terms if you said something happen in July 2018 but there is no way it could have happened until July 2019 then that is what is applied. There is no rule currently in place to stop clubs selling their grounds but there is rules in place about how the transaction takes place so as long as this third party has transferred fund to pay for the club then the club have a very good defence but if the price of the sale has been used to reduce DC loan to the club then we may have a problem.

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2 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

What is that based on?

I give up 

 

Any player at the top of their game is not going to take a pay reduction to join a new club unless they are not at the top of their game.

 

Do you think we would pay £10m for a fading player?

 

 

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1 minute ago, room0035 said:

DC said in January 2019 we would breach the FFP rule by an 8 figure sum why would he say this is the account to 31 July 2018 (6 months early) we had sold the stadium to make sure we would be in line with the loss levels.

 

Thinks like this make me not believe everything that comes out of DC mouth.

 

As for you second paragraph as I have said in this thread on numerous occasion if DC himself had bought the club not a third party company he would be fine, but what has happen as far as I am aware and the main problem with the EFL the paperwork say the club where bought by a company that did not exist at the time the contract was signed. in law the courts would look at the substance of the contract over the legal form.

 

in laymans terms if you said something happen in July 2018 but there is no way it could have happened until July 2019 then that is what is applied. There is no rule currently in place to stop clubs selling their grounds but there is rules in place about how the transaction takes place so as long as this third party has transferred fund to pay for the club then the club have a very good defence but if the price of the sale has been used to reduce DC loan to the club then we may have a problem.

 

There is a big difference between laymans terms and accounting terms. It's why good accountants get paid a lot of money.

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Our wage bill is 42 million with an avg weekly wage of £20,300 (going Kiaran Maguires report).

 

Quote

Sheffield Wednesday’s wage bill increased by over a half to £42 million in 2017/18 as the owner backed the manager in the transfer market and also the full year cost of new contracts for the likes of Forestieri.

 

Wages in the Championship average £15,000 a week, and Wednesday are in the top half of this table at £20,300.

 

 

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Just now, room0035 said:

I give up 

 

Any player at the top of their game is not going to take a pay reduction to join a new club unless they are not at the top of their game.

 

Do you think we would pay £10m for a fading player?

 

 

 

I think we paid the going rate for a striker with previous goalscoring history in our league. The same fee was paid for Hugill in the same window. 

 

And as a club, you would suggest that a player not getting into the starting XI of a premier league team is not currently premier league quality, so their wages will be lowered accordingly.  There may well be bonuses attached (goal, assist, appearance etc) that would bump up his wage to meet his current base salary, but his base salary won't be £40,000.

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3 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

There is a big difference between laymans terms and accounting terms. It's why good accountants get paid a lot of money.

I know - but good accountants are able to change the terms so people not of the accounting world can understand. 

 

Look believe what you want it law is very clear and as long as we have followed everything we have nothing to worry about - but equally the EFL would not be bringing charges against us if they did not feel there were grey areas to the sale of the ground.

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1 hour ago, Minton said:

 

Well Mitrovic and Rodruigez are both on base salaries of £60k. 

 

And the average salary bill for Championship clubs is £34m. So we are pretty much bang average there. When you realise Stoke had 9 players on £50,000pw or more in 2018, I don't think we have gone totally bonkers tbh.

 

The fact that ANY player in the championship is being paid this amount of money is proof the game is fooooked .

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2 hours ago, rickygoo said:

 

There's merit in this but sadly Chansiri and Wednesday live in today's football world with all the regulations and rules that currently exist.

 

If he's tried to con his way round them via actions which amount to deliberate misconduct I'd say he's not a fit and proper person to be running Wednesday. If he hasn't then I guess we'll stumble along as we have been. 


My feelings towards our esteemed chairman & his entourage have been made pretty clear on this forum. Yet I'm not making any further comment until after the case has been decided. 

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