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2 hours ago, Gnarwolf said:

 

I think it's got more to do with you talking absolute testicles than it does people being "closeted Corbyn supporters". Just because someone understands the need for civil peace discussions it makes them a terrorist lover? Please explain this to me, maybe I'm misunderstanding it?

 

Also, you might want to do your research, Corbyn has wanted Brexit for decades mate, he just doesn't want it under the control of the corruption filled waste of space that we call a government today, and you can't really blame him can you?

cant stand any politician all greedy corrupt b*stards at least if we get your Corbyn friend trees will all be full of money so be easy pickings for us all. 

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2 hours ago, cross owl said:

 

 

  Several european countries for overtime you pay less tax or no tax at all . People need an incentive to work extra and for promotion and by taxing them to the wall amazingly enough it doesn't incentivise people to bother . Still high tax , buying back everything for billions and strikes is the way to a healthy economy lol

Always thought that would sensible idea. If you work extra hours or get a bonus why not tax lower to incentivise  after all it's extra money that the HMRC were not expecting. Win win.

In the past been offered a few hours OT and think what's the point if it knock me into a higher bracket becomes less attractive.

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4 minutes ago, handworth52 said:

cant stand any politician all greedy corrupt b*stards at least if we get your Corbyn friend trees will all be full of money so be easy pickings for us all. 

If Corbyn wants brexit, why does he want a people's vote absolute crap. We voted and voted leave it was democratic. The big question is why are politicians ignoring the democratic process. It was a straight choice remain or leave.

We all know that we were given the vote and the public decided something that Mps didn't like. So they have tried their best to ignore it and come up with idiotic reasons like the public didn't understand what they were voting for etc.

Think it was pretty clear remain or leave. Personally think we are better as part of Europe but if we can't follow and abide by a democratic referendum that said leave then what is the point of having a Parliament and MPs. What is the point of voting if they choose to ignore the result to suit their own purposes.

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11 minutes ago, Harrysgame said:

If Corbyn wants brexit, why does he want a people's vote absolute crap. We voted and voted leave it was democratic. The big question is why are politicians ignoring the democratic process. It was a straight choice remain or leave.

We all know that we were given the vote and the public decided something that Mps didn't like. So they have tried their best to ignore it and come up with idiotic reasons like the public didn't understand what they were voting for etc.

Think it was pretty clear remain or leave. Personally think we are better as part of Europe but if we can't follow and abide by a democratic referendum that said leave then what is the point of having a Parliament and MPs. What is the point of voting if they choose to ignore the result to suit their own purposes.


I think there’s a stat somewhere that at one time or other over 500 of our 640 MPs voted for one of the various deals. This explains the answer to your point “ it was pretty clear remain or leave”.  It obviously wasn’t. All of the strongest Leavers, including Johnson, Mogg, Patel, Raab etc voted AGAINST leaving at various points because they didn’t like a particular deal.

 

In hindsight, the question we answered was a foolish one. It’s why we need to answer the more specific question “Leave with THIS deal or Remain”. Then Parliament gets an answer/instruction that is crystal clear and actionable.

 

If there is an anti-Tory coalition as a result of this GE that’s exactly what you will be given. A crystal clear choice - specific deal v Remain.

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53 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Voted for it as wanted sovereignty so that all decisions are made by our parliament... and to give us control over immigration policy. Plus think European economies have structural issues that are almost impossible to address because of the monetary union and no co-ordinated fiscal policy, and think it will be easier to trade with higher growth markets.

 

I'd still vote the same way if we had another referendum. But have a little less faith in our own parliament making decisions after the last 3 years, and even if we get control over immigration it doesn't sound like any of the parties will actually cut it anyway. And the trade deals appear a lot more complicated than they did back in 2016 and could take a while. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, just that it probably takes 5-10 years before we start seeing any benefits from it if it goes smoothly


Thanks.

 

I’d be very happy to give an alternative view on those very clear points if it’s of any interest to you? From my persecutive as an employer, importer and exporter.

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31 minutes ago, Holmowl said:


I think there’s a stat somewhere that at one time or other over 500 of our 640 MPs voted for one of the various deals. This explains the answer to your point “ it was pretty clear remain or leave”.  It obviously wasn’t. All of the strongest Leavers, including Johnson, Mogg, Patel, Raab etc voted AGAINST leaving at various points because they didn’t like a particular deal.

 

In hindsight, the question we answered was a foolish one. It’s why we need to answer the more specific question “Leave with THIS deal or Remain”. Then Parliament gets an answer/instruction that is crystal clear and actionable.

 

If there is an anti-Tory coalition as a result of this GE that’s exactly what you will be given. A crystal clear choice - specific deal v Remain.

 

What's pretty clear is that Harrysgame hasn't been reading the small print since the result of the referendum, or indeed the rules of the referendum which clearly state that referenda are not legally binding. Still, all the clichés are there...take back Sovereignty, control of immigration. Text book stuff. If of course, the referendum had been legally binding, several members of the Vote Leave campaign would be facing legal action for the use of Cambridge Analytica in their 'voter research' and of course the electoral overspend thanks to Mr. Banks.

But your right Holmowl and if there's to be a second referendum in the future, the terms and conditions will need to be writ large.

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Guest LondonOwl313
36 minutes ago, Holmowl said:


Thanks.

 

I’d be very happy to give an alternative view on those very clear points if it’s of any interest to you? From my persecutive as an employer, importer and exporter.

Sure, go for it

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On 12/11/2019 at 23:00, Bleeder said:

 

Brilliant post. Couldn't agree more. Storing up massive problems for future generations.

 

Decent ideas but only scratches the surface of the problems with Capitalism today. When your government sell off your assets, BT, Gas, Electric, Gold, PO, those assets which bring in daily revenues to government coffers are lost. All those mentioned were sold to the highest bidder, many of whom don't live in this country and as with most investors are only interested in Shareholder profits for one reason, lining their own pockets. Re-investment for improvement and heaven forbid for environmental reasons have become anathema. This aside, the books on trickle down economics have been removed to the Mythology section of the Library. The wealth disparity between richest and poorest in this country is larger than it has ever been.

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3 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

If you live in Sheffield then yes it's a lot of money... you'd have a lot of disposable income. But the bulk of the jobs paying that sort of money are in London... and if you're a 40-50 year old couple, one earning 100k and the other 50k say, and you have kids, and no relatives locally to look after them.. your money isn't going to go very far. Will all go on a mortgage on a modest terraced house, day to day expenses and paying for a nanny. You'd be shocked at how quickly it goes


That’s a very specific set of people who are extremely privileged in the first place so forgive my lack of sympathy for people who make literally almost ten times what I earn and a lot of what you say is because right wing government incentivises making living in London as expensive as possible, so maybe you should be have more of a communist view on it? 

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On 13/11/2019 at 17:24, cross owl said:

 

 

  And the several billion pounds will come from where , tax everyone to the hilt , make britain an undesirable place for all business by squeezing them until they leave . And you really think there would be any train on time if it was bought back . They would spend most of the time stood still during yet another strike . Europeans have a different outlook to the british that's why , nothing to do with who owns it . Sorry but in my experience unions make more problems than they solve . The care about their power , their own jobs followed by the jobs of the union members and britain doesn't even figure at any level  . Do exactly as we demand or we are on strike and if britain crumbles I couldn't care less as our members have what we wanted . Just my opinion which I imagine is the polar opposite of yours . 

 

The income generated from having rebought those assets would soon begin to repay the not inconsiderable cost of renationalisation. At the moment the owners of those companies are predominantly foreign, they take the profits and only reinvest when it suits them. Or are you a wealthy Johnny Foreigner that is profiting from this stupidity. I mean you talk like you like this country but I have serious doubts.

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2 hours ago, shandypants said:

You mention Trade Unions (I am indifferent to unions for the record). Having worked significantly in Germany, I can tell you that I have not come across a more unionised place than that country, yet still they have a better economy than us. 
 

I have worked across many Northern European countries (Belgium, Nederlands, Sweden, Finland, Germany and others) and they all have strong unions yet all have strong economies. Also, most of those countries have mainstream political parties that are far more to the right of the UK Conservatives and far more left than the UK Labour Party but they manage to form successful and progressive governments. 
 

To say that Corbyn, McDonald et al will ruin our country is sensationalist rhubarb. The UK is predominantly conservative (with a lower case “c”) as are our attitudes and politics. We could argue all day about how left wing Corbyn, McDonald and Abbott are but, fundamentally, what they practice is left leaning conservatism (again with a lower “c”). The Labour Party will not trash the country’s economy in some Left Wing experiment; their own MPs won’t allow that to happen. 
 

Natural political order determines that it is time for a change; (with the exception of the Thatcher/Major period) modern governments rarely last longer than 9 or 10 years. UK politics is stale and somewhat broken at present; it is ripe for a shake up. The Tories have lost their way and need to reset. I would welcome a Labour or even a Lib Dem government. 

In fairness, I agree with quite a bit of the above 're the unions in Europe. I also work in the EU for a proportion of my work Germany, Netherlands and Austria. The unions are strong but do seem to have a more balanced view of the company and do not seem to have the extremes or rhetoric we see with some unions or members within the UK. There are good Labour Mps but from the media it does seem that it is a case of "lunatics taking over the asylum". Think it all comes down to trust and at the moment personally would trust the conservatives with the UK more than Labour. Must admit have not always felt this way and feel that their is an overall lack of integrity in all politicians of all parties.

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21 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Well there’s a few problems with this.. one is it diminishes aspiration as there’s no point pushing yourself to earn more if they just tax it all so productivity takes a hit

 

And the other one is that if, as you say, it’s a small percentage of the population, then it isn’t going to raise anywhere near enough revenue to make a difference 

 

They need to focus on wealth taxes but in a way that doesn’t crash the economy. So probably levies on ultra high net worth and inheritance taxes are the way to go 

 

It doesn't seem to bother the Yanks too much does it? Check out their tax rates. Then go check their Health care insurance...£400-500 pm isn't unusual. I'm not sure what your Maths are like but 5% of stupid amounts of money can raise quite a lot of money, but I agree with your last point.

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39 minutes ago, sten said:

 

What's pretty clear is that Harrysgame hasn't been reading the small print since the result of the referendum, or indeed the rules of the referendum which clearly state that referenda are not legally binding. Still, all the clichés are there...take back Sovereignty, control of immigration. Text book stuff. If of course, the referendum had been legally binding, several members of the Vote Leave campaign would be facing legal action for the use of Cambridge Analytica in their 'voter research' and of course the electoral overspend thanks to Mr. Banks.

But your right Holmowl and if there's to be a second referendum in the future, the terms and conditions will need to be writ large.

Why would I read the small print, there was a straight choice. Does anyone who voted read chapter and verse on constitutional or Parliamentry law.

Fact is there was a vote and so far the Mps have not carried out the will of the electorate.

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Guest LondonOwl313
10 minutes ago, sten said:

 

It doesn't seem to bother the Yanks too much does it? Check out their tax rates. Then go check their Health care insurance...£400-500 pm isn't unusual. I'm not sure what your Maths are like but 5% of stupid amounts of money can raise quite a lot of money, but I agree with your last point.

America is a mess financially, it's worse than here as they have a huge budget deficit of $1 trillion. And their healthcare system is a joke. I work in investment consulting so read a lot about economics and there's big problems coming soon. Last year the financial system nearly crashed again because the central banks tried to remove some of the exceptional stimulus that's been in place since the financial crisis, they just can't ween it off it without things going south. This year, growth has been slowing yet almost all asset markets have been going up substantially because they started stimulating again. There's a real disconnect between lots of things at the moment and it's not good.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/world-has-gone-mad-system-broken-ray-dalio

 

The above might be of interest if you're into that kind of thing.

 

As for taxes, putting up income tax on those earning more than £80k won't raise much because 1. There's not that many people who do and 2. If you do, the bulk of them probably earn between £80k and £120k say. There are hardly any super wealthy people earning massive amounts of money and paying income tax on it as it's not economical to be paid in that way for them. Income tax is a tax on the regular person. The real stupid money comes in investment portfolios or private companies paying dividends to owners. Unfortunately this is where the tax system is lacking because there just isn't the same level of tax levied on these types of income. In the US, it's a big thing for next year's election with the candidates standing against Trump advocating wealth taxes

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If I might make a suggestion.

Instead of forming an opinion to reach a decision on who to vote for in the upcoming election by reading the national newspapers or the unaccountable myriad of content on social media. Or absorbing the opinions of friends and family. Why not dig a little deeper and try to understand a little of what's actually going on and what these political parties can offer you and yours and your country and what they are asking from you in return. Maybe attend rallies on both sides. Go to hustings and ask questions and get answers in person. Speak to reputable charities and managing directors and gig economy workers and doctors and nurses.

It's genuinely scares me to think now that hugely important decisions are being influenced and decided by the horror that is social media.

I beg you all to dig deeper. Your effort will not be in vain.

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