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Stupid Question???


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16 hours ago, sten said:

 

 

Except it wasn't. Firstly, and I am sick of posting this, referenda are not legal binding. If they were, the fact that there was an illegal overspend from the Leave campaign, coupled with the use of Cambridge Analytica would end with several members of our so called political elite in the dock. The QC that made this legal judgement must be an enemy of the people, right? Why are Leavers so afraid of a second referendum when they are so convinced of the undisputable result and the 'will of the people'...all 37% of the eligible electorate. I've had an interest in politics for about 45 years and can say in all honesty that I did not know about or understand the full implications of Brexit and that's before anyone mentions the Irish border question. The devil's in the detail and that's why we need a second run at it. I don't imagine for one second that 'the people' will have bothered to look into the small print behind Johnson's brilliant, oven ready deal with the EU but from what I've seen of Johnson, it'll be flawed; he doesn't do detail either. We're a representative democracy with MPs who are elected to make decisions on our behalf; what we're seeing right now is a bunch of chancers whose primary interest in Power. They need our help, guidance and scrutiny more than ever but I don't think letting Brexit happen without proper scrutiny is a good idea.

It really was quite simple, choice was stay in the EU with all the benefits and agreements or leave and do your own thing in the world. Sure those who voted leave real8sed that we would have to draw up our own deals.

It was simple leave or remain. The electorate voted and MPs should accept it, not their job to say, yes but they didn't really know what they were doing, these were 18 + adults not kids.

The thing about a democracy is that their will always be a large group who are unhappy. 

 

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2 hours ago, Harrysgame said:

It really was quite simple, choice was stay in the EU with all the benefits and agreements or leave and do your own thing in the world. Sure those who voted leave real8sed that we would have to draw up our own deals.

It was simple leave or remain. The electorate voted and MPs should accept it, not their job to say, yes but they didn't really know what they were doing, these were 18 + adults not kids.

The thing about a democracy is that their will always be a large group who are unhappy. 

 

 

 

  If remain had won the vote leavers would have been narked but that would have been it . Exactly the same as when we entered the common market , people who didn't want it didn't try and overturn it continuously .. Remainers on the other hand will never accept the result and will go on about it until the end of time . No mp actually wants out as it directly costs them money , so are making as big a b0110x of it as possible just to say , it's what you wanted the eu is wonderful and you wanted to leave so this mess is your fault . If the eu is so wonderful and the best for all countries it would just say fine leave and when you realise it's a mistake you can come back but on worse terms for a bit than you have now . As it is the eu is sending a message , look at britain don't dare even think of leaving . 

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6 hours ago, cross owl said:

 

 

  If remain had won the vote leavers would have been narked but that would have been it . Exactly the same as when we entered the common market , people who didn't want it didn't try and overturn it continuously .. Remainers on the other hand will never accept the result and will go on about it until the end of time . No mp actually wants out as it directly costs them money , so are making as big a b0110x of it as possible just to say , it's what you wanted the eu is wonderful and you wanted to leave so this mess is your fault . If the eu is so wonderful and the best for all countries it would just say fine leave and when you realise it's a mistake you can come back but on worse terms for a bit than you have now . As it is the eu is sending a message , look at britain don't dare even think of leaving . 

Nail on head there. 

Just accept the vote and leave.

I am sure however in a few years some politician will go knocking in the EU door and say can we come back please.

The whole debacle must have switched so many off politics.

Who was it who said I might not agree with you but would fight so you have the right to say it......well the people said it, so where are the Labour and liberals fighting for those who said leave. Oh yes they actually didn't know what they were doing so we are trying to think for them.  So patronising.

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@horny owl @Harrysgame @cross owl Ever made a mistake? I’ve made loads. 

 

Cameron made a mistake in putting forward a simple question. If we’ve all seen one thing since June 2016 it’s that there’s no such thing as a simple Brexit. If you want proof look no further than all the Leave leaders voting against the WA time and time again.

 

Leaving without a deal will crucify our economy. If we deliver a Tory majority No Deal will be back on the table mid-Summer. Spend on schools, NHS, policing etc etc will drop, not increase, and it’s all down to this wretched undeliverable promise made by a group of rich privileged liars. 

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4 hours ago, Holmowl said:

@horny owl @Harrysgame @cross owl Ever made a mistake? I’ve made loads. 

 

Cameron made a mistake in putting forward a simple question. If we’ve all seen one thing since June 2016 it’s that there’s no such thing as a simple Brexit. If you want proof look no further than all the Leave leaders voting against the WA time and time again.

 

Leaving without a deal will crucify our economy. If we deliver a Tory majority No Deal will be back on the table mid-Summer. Spend on schools, NHS, policing etc etc will drop, not increase, and it’s all down to this wretched undeliverable promise made by a group of rich privileged liars. 

 

 

  It wasn't a mistake in the slightest and it is simple . He believed the British would do as they were told that the eu was the best thing on the planet and they didn't . They are all making it as much of a mess as possible because none of them want their golden eu money ticket taking from them so will make sure it's as difficult as they can make it . Give every country the same vote and most countries people would vote to leave this biased boys club invented so an unelected unacountable elite can become even more obscenely rich by inventing a super state . The eu wants to take away all sovereignty and have nothing but the eu and separate areas within it . The joy of countries is that they are all different with different people , languages , outlook and different traditions . The eu wants an end to that so going to Rome is exactly the same as going to Birmingham but with prettier landscape . That is the end game and always has been . Just that when people voted for the common market they knew that no countries people would want any part of it if they revealed their intentions . They want one eu and one people and I for one want no part of such a beige uninteresting area invented entirely for the benefit of a handful of people to be drunk on power and money . They are already on the way to inventing a European army so they can match the Russians and that has historically ended well . 

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4 hours ago, Holmowl said:

@horny owl @Harrysgame @cross owl Ever made a mistake? I’ve made loads. 

 

Cameron made a mistake in putting forward a simple question. If we’ve all seen one thing since June 2016 it’s that there’s no such thing as a simple Brexit. If you want proof look no further than all the Leave leaders voting against the WA time and time again.

 

Leaving without a deal will crucify our economy. If we deliver a Tory majority No Deal will be back on the table mid-Summer. Spend on schools, NHS, policing etc etc will drop, not increase, and it’s all down to this wretched undeliverable promise made by a group of rich privileged liars. 

Great post

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1 hour ago, cross owl said:

 

 

  It wasn't a mistake in the slightest and it is simple . He believed the British would do as they were told that the eu was the best thing on the planet and they didn't . They are all making it as much of a mess as possible because none of them want their golden eu money ticket taking from them so will make sure it's as difficult as they can make it . Give every country the same vote and most countries people would vote to leave this biased boys club invented so an unelected unacountable elite can become even more obscenely rich by inventing a super state . The eu wants to take away all sovereignty and have nothing but the eu and separate areas within it . The joy of countries is that they are all different with different people , languages , outlook and different traditions . The eu wants an end to that so going to Rome is exactly the same as going to Birmingham but with prettier landscape . That is the end game and always has been . Just that when people voted for the common market they knew that no countries people would want any part of it if they revealed their intentions . They want one eu and one people and I for one want no part of such a beige uninteresting area invented entirely for the benefit of a handful of people to be drunk on power and money . They are already on the way to inventing a European army so they can match the Russians and that has historically ended well . 

 

 

I didn’t say it was wrong to hold the referendum. I said it was wrong to ask a simple question. As has been proved.

 

If it took you 4 years to build a “simple” IKEA unit then it’s wrong to sell it as “simple”. 

 

It is a massively complicated process to leave after 40 years of being a member of the Worlds largest trading block. 

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24 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

 

I didn’t say it was wrong to hold the referendum. I said it was wrong to ask a simple question. As has been proved.

 

If it took you 4 years to build a “simple” IKEA unit then it’s wrong to sell it as “simple”. 

 

It is a massively complicated process to leave after 40 years of being a member of the Worlds largest trading block. 

 

 

  It's not that complicated.  On one side you have the eu who are royally p@@@@d off with us so are going to make it as difficult and expensive as possible as a warning to any other country who dares to hold a referendum  and on the other mps who don't want to come out at all . You can make anything complicated if you don't want to do something . Men have been doing it since time began lol

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1 minute ago, cross owl said:

 

 

  It's not that complicated.  On one side you have the eu who are royally p@@@@d off with us so are going to make it as difficult and expensive as possible as a warning to any other country who dares to hold a referendum  and on the other mps who don't want to come out at all . You can make anything complicated if you don't want to do something . Men have been doing it since time began lol


If it was only Benn, Cooper, Grieve, Swinson and the other Remain MPs who have “made it difficult” Id agree with you. 
 

But when MPs like Mogg, Bridgen, Patel, Duncan-Smith etc who have wanted out for decades vote against the WA it shows you just how many versions of Brexit there are.

 

Dont forget, arch-leaver Farage claims the current deal isn’t even Brexit!

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30 minutes ago, Lincowl said:

The conflict is that Yorkshire folk have been trained never to vote Tory but when the alternative is clownworld Corbyn, Dianne Abbott et al which way to turn suddenly becomes a lot less clear.

 

 

  It's because all other areas of Britain envy staunchly labour voting areas for their low crime rates and high standards of living . After a century of labour sheffield and places like it are the envy of err . So why vote any other way . At the moment they are all incompetent it's just that labour has taken their utopian lunacy to new levels :ghoulguy:

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On 22/11/2019 at 07:39, Holmowl said:

@horny owl @Harrysgame @cross owl Ever made a mistake? I’ve made loads. 

 

Cameron made a mistake in putting forward a simple question. If we’ve all seen one thing since June 2016 it’s that there’s no such thing as a simple Brexit. If you want proof look no further than all the Leave leaders voting against the WA time and time again.

 

Leaving without a deal will crucify our economy. If we deliver a Tory majority No Deal will be back on the table mid-Summer. Spend on schools, NHS, policing etc etc will drop, not increase, and it’s all down to this wretched undeliverable promise made by a group of rich privileged liars. 

it won't, they're going to borrow money left, right, and centre.

talk about labour bankrupting the country under brown, get ready (I hope they manage to scrounge enough to mend the roads).

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On 22/11/2019 at 14:01, cross owl said:

 

 

  It's not that complicated.  On one side you have the eu who are royally p@@@@d off with us so are going to make it as difficult and expensive as possible as a warning to any other country who dares to hold a referendum  and on the other mps who don't want to come out at all . You can make anything complicated if you don't want to do something . Men have been doing it since time began lol

the eu don't need to scare the rest off the idea, the uk has done that for them, with the 'best' still to come.

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