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toppOwl

Total Overreaction To Defeats

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4 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

 

That's not all 100% true though is it. There have been games this season where we have won 1-0 but missed several chances and games where we have thrown points away due to not having that killer instinct...both Winnall and Fletch guilty of missing chances. Bannan and Lunogo have both recently shown a more creative side with Luongo chipping in with a couple of goals but both were missing Saturday (hence the original post stating the overreaction).

 

I do agree that the 1 up top doesn't work and a formation with with 2 up is needed, Fletcher is working tirelessly but is finding himself isolated. This for me is where Monk earns his money, it is his responsibility to find this formation and style of play to suit. What is baffling is that we have a game changer in FF, who to me as looked hungry in his brief appearances since coming back from suspension but he just seems to be sat waiting for the final 20 minutes games.

It is 75% true though. And a lot now depends on Longuo. Striker{s} will always miss some chances . FF hardly on the pitch is a puzzle. 

The midfield was one dimensional in the play off final, with no creativity, shots of their own and bullied by the Hull midfield. Bruce set out to solve it by getting Harris to provide chances and Longuo to be a more versatile midfielder. 

Fletcher as sole striker against a weak team will not get the goals you would expect to score against that type of opposition unless gifted,  and without a goalscoring midfielder or one who can create real chances for the sole striker, it will always look like 1-1 against teams like Blackburn at best, and perhaps Longuo will fill the bill.

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13 hours ago, cowl said:

The defeat in itself (that is, the 3 points dropped from the 138 that are up for grabs each season) aren't really a massive problem for me. Obviously we're going to drop points during a season.

 

It's not even the nature of this particular defeat being so late in the game that is the source of concern.

 

For me, it's the way we set-up. I've said this a few times since the game finished now, but it just seems so needlessly defensive.

 

I'm not surprised to see any side in this division given sufficient encouragement put any other side under pressure in a game.

 

There are no woeful sides - but there are sides whose confidence is clearly fragile - and Blackburn, as was clear even within a few minutes of Saturday's game starting, are such a side.

 

It worries me that Monk's take on Saturday seems to be that the approach and execution of the game plan went almost to perfection but for a mad last few minutes.

 

I'd rather we'd not scored at all and Blackburn still get either or both their goals because maybe then Monk would have been more likely to reflect upon the flaws of how we set up for 90 minutes, rather than focusing upon our loss of concentration towards the end of the game.

 

It's ironic that we had a good go at Leeds while playing two up top, and yet Blackburn sees us cower cautiously before them with just the one up front. We don't have the best squad of players in this division, but we still have a very decent squad, and one that is far better than the way we set up.

Family members who were at Blackburn tell me that Monk's interview really angered  them. To say the overall approach was fine for 85 minutes was irritating,  when a cautious,  turgid, no risks,  no attack approach against a badly struggling side led to such unadventurous football .  ( The plan clearly was to go for a 1-0 win,  with pressure only mounted for the last 20 minutes) . 

 

FF is clearly not trusted to play as Monk wants and as the best attacker at the club, it is revealing,  and if he is not going to play much, surely he should be traded in January.....but he is the best attacker...!

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Heres a tip for a more harmonious life.

Never overreact to the initial Owlstalk overreaction.

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On 04/11/2019 at 09:51, toppOwl said:

None of us have ever seen the Owls go a full season unbeaten and I doubt we ever will, great Owls sides have lost games we expected them to win and won others against the odds, why has it become a seemingly modern trait of fans to treat on defeat as an absolute calamity of epic proportions. Last week we put up a very good performance against the leagues current best side Leeds, people were saying we more than matched them, played some great football and should have won, one week later we lose to Blackburn in a game where two very influential midfielders are missing from the line up (Bannan & Luongo) and all of a sudden we are a mid table side, the manager should be replaced and we need 15 new signings, its quite staggering to hear the bile spilled especially when we are still in a decent position and everybody is beating each other (see Fulham v Hull).

You're going way over the top with some of your ranting. I'm not sure anybody used the words " absolute calamity of epic proportions" or clambered for Monk to be sacked and to sign 15 new players. If you think the apparent over reaction is a modern trait, then you're sadly mistaken. Football fans emotions  are notorious for being up and down all season, you only have to look at the reaction on here last week after our good performance against Leeds. Fans have always reacted badly to defeats, it's not a modern thing. It's just different now with with this Tinternet thing, you can get your views across to more people instead of 3 or 4 mates in the pub on Sat or at work Monday. Don't try and tell me you've not ever come away disappointed from a match and not debated the merits of players or style of play etc. Like I said, with forums such as this one you reach more people and is a place to let off steam, just like you have done.

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7 hours ago, LittleG said:

You're going way over the top with some of your ranting. I'm not sure anybody used the words " absolute calamity of epic proportions" or clambered for Monk to be sacked and to sign 15 new players. If you think the apparent over reaction is a modern trait, then you're sadly mistaken. Football fans emotions  are notorious for being up and down all season, you only have to look at the reaction on here last week after our good performance against Leeds. Fans have always reacted badly to defeats, it's not a modern thing. It's just different now with with this Tinternet thing, you can get your views across to more people instead of 3 or 4 mates in the pub on Sat or at work Monday. Don't try and tell me you've not ever come away disappointed from a match and not debated the merits of players or style of play etc. Like I said, with forums such as this one you reach more people and is a place to let off steam, just like you have done.

 

You obviously didn't read much social media after the game on Saturday.

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10 hours ago, victorturner said:

Family members who were at Blackburn tell me that Monk's interview really angered  them. To say the overall approach was fine for 85 minutes was irritating,  when a cautious,  turgid, no risks,  no attack approach against a badly struggling side led to such unadventurous football .  ( The plan clearly was to go for a 1-0 win,  with pressure only mounted for the last 20 minutes) . 

 

FF is clearly not trusted to play as Monk wants and as the best attacker at the club, it is revealing,  and if he is not going to play much, surely he should be traded in January.....but he is the best attacker...!

Much the way i saw it really,thought wed have got at them from the off,played two uptop and gone for three points,they were well out of form and had been playing below par last few weeks,so was baffled by our formation.

3 points down the khazi for me and send us all home happy

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9 hours ago, toppOwl said:

 

You obviously didn't read much social media after the game on Saturday.

And you rely on social media, that well known haven for responsible and grounded supporters, to support your viewpoint.

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it's not an over reaction when the team crumbles when the opposition starts to put abit of pressure on them

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"why has it become a seemingly modern trait of fans to treat on defeat as an absolute calamity of epic proportions."

 

Internet, ninja warriors.

 

When my dad use to take me 1987/88 onwards, he would storm out of Hillsborough walking at 100mph, up the hill (Herries Road), me running to keep up, declaring he's never coming to watch this shower again. 2/3 days later he'd calm down! No internet to vent his feelings. 

 

Simple internet has ruined everything!!!

Edited by briggowl
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2 hours ago, LittleG said:

And you rely on social media, that well known haven for responsible and grounded supporters, to support your viewpoint.

 

My original post was regarding overreactions, social media is the biggest source of any reactions now, positive or negative.

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1 hour ago, toppOwl said:

 

My original post was regarding overreactions, social media is the biggest source of any reactions now, positive or negative.

Exactly, that's why I was trying to make the point that you shouldn't take too much notice of what is spouted on social media. Wawaw

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On 05/11/2019 at 11:18, LondonOwl313 said:

 

Here are the goals scored and conceded for the promoted teams over the last 4 seasons:

 

Burnley F 72, A 35, GD +37

Middlesborough F 63, A 31, GD +32

Hull F 69, A 35, GD +32

 

Newcastle F 85, A 40, GD +45

Brighton F 74, A 40, GD +34

Huddersfield F 56, A 58, GD -2

 

Wolves F 82, A 39, GD +43

Cardiff F 69, A 39, GD +30

Fulham F 79, A 36, GD +33

 

Norwich F 93, A 57, GD +36

Sheff Utd F 78, A 41, GD +37

Villa F 82, A 61, GD +21

 

We're on for F 58, A 37, GD +21

 

So only 1 team out of the last 12 to be promoted scored fewer goals than we're on for, and that's Huddersfield. Most teams score at least 10 more goals (10 out of the last 12) and often 20 more goals (6 out of the last 12) in their promotion winning seasons. Would be massively surprised if we go up playing for 1-0 every week. Days like Saturday will occur multiple times this season if we do, and it will be really frustrating to watch

 

If you read my post correctly, I was talking about the style of football played. Those teams football was pragmatic and not expansive and they got promoted. Give Monk a chance, he hasn't had a chance to bring in any players yet. You cannot compare stats when we are only a third into the season.

 

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Unbelievable how many posts I've seen on social media over past few days saying 'Rhodes should be in team, we've never given him a chance, why isn't Winnall starting? 

 

Rhodes has played over 50 games for us and done very little, 8 goals and 2 of them were in a League cup game at Bolton when we were already 3-0 behind. 

 

Seen another post saying why did we sit back after going in front at Blackburn? 

Obviously weren't there because we did opposite, we went looking for a second and got caught with a sucker punch. 

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Before everyone starts kicking off over where we are likely to finish I think we should hold tight until Christmas and see where we are as this period between now and then certainly over the last two seasons has been key.

 

I suspect everyone is losing their sh!t over the prospect of a collapse happening again. See what happens on Saturday against Swansea, win that and we’re one point behind them. For me Monks done ok with a squad that is unbalanced, lacking in youth, physicality and pace. Qualities you need in general to succeed at this level. If grinding out results is the only way we can challenge this season then that’s what we have to do.

 

Everyone on here is nervous because the best team in the world are currently 6th in the premier playing with overlapping centre-backs. It’s an archaic way of playing FFS, Liverpool were doing this 40 years ago ;-) O’Connell and Egan aren’t Hansen and Lawrenson, well they probably are to the local press who jizz themselves off every time they enter Bramall Lane? :unsure:

 

Seriously we can’t do anything about how well that lot are doing, we can only concentrate on ourselves and we’re doing ok and we’ll continue to do so if we give Monk and the players the support to continue to play with the effort and heart we’ve already seen this season?

Edited by Great Big Galaa
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Social media is just full of over reactions from attention seekers.

 

Monk hopefully will get time to get his team together and then he can be judged after a few transfer windows when his players are brought in and they play his style of play, at the moment he is just trying to get the best out of what he has got. He is doing a fine job too and shouldn't be hammered for a couple of blips this early in his career with us. 

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Can anyone remember another game where we scored to take the lead after the 80th minute and then lost? Seems like the sort of thing we'd be good at,

but I can't remember any. Perhaps that's because I've selectively forgotten them, or just the getting old thing.  

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8 hours ago, trumbullowl said:

Can anyone remember another game where we scored to take the lead after the 80th minute and then lost? Seems like the sort of thing we'd be good at,

but I can't remember any. Perhaps that's because I've selectively forgotten them, or just the getting old thing.  

 

Not quite the 80th but there was a game against Walsall in league 1.

It was over Xmas time where we were winning from about the 60th minute and let two goals in over the last two minutes.

Remember it really, really weeing me off at the time. 

Thankfully we went on to win promotion that year so hopefully we bounce back the same this time!

Edited by The Horse

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5 hours ago, The Horse said:

 

Not quite the 80th but there was a game against Walsall in league 1.

It was over Xmas time where we were winning from about the 60th minute and let two goals in over the last two minutes.

Remember it really, really weeing me off at the time. 

Thankfully we went on to win promotion that year so hopefully we bounce back the same this time!

I vaguely remember that. We never did well at Walsall.

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Jos's last game we took the lead about 65th minute, but were 2-1 down less than ten minutes later. Swansea too.

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