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Rogerwyldesmullet

Big club? Crowds now crowds then

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6 hours ago, danblakemore said:

 

Don't know how true it was, but I am sure I read on here that our ground isn't up to the required standard for the Premier League as it is, something to do with Disabled access and Corporate facilities?

Easy to change that; corporate is good enough. Easy enough to make some more space for disabled fans got loads of space on the lepp.

Thing they need to upgrade would be the Press and TV areas. Been in quite a few press areas at PL clubs and dedicated rooms and banks of seats for all the press with monitors, internet access and live commentary. Not unusual at a PL game to have 20 _ 40 press guys including overseas hacks.

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2 hours ago, Bulldog said:

IF (more likely "When") the stadium issues are resolved then yes, it's a possibility. Until then I stick by my opinion.

The season after the aforementioned crowd of 27K, we achieved around 25 500 followed by last season's 24 500. The present average is just over 24K after 2 Yorkshire Derbies......I see a pattern developing!

If we do get up can easily see 27K ST sales.

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12 hours ago, Rogers said:

Villa has won the European cup just 3 years prior to getting 10k crowds at home in the top flight. 
 

Steve Hodge and Mark Walters scoring - future england players 

ive been to villa in 1985 and villa park for semi in 86 . villa have never had 10000 crowds ,either its a misprint or there was some mass protest going on regards doug ellis at the time ,also in them days there were a lot of trouble and I think it put a lot off going . why would villa park have 45000 capacity ground but only get 10000 in top flight? don't make sense. I think chansiri has made a huge mistake regards pricing , once your out of habit of going you may never go back .also if prices were much simpler ie 3 categories instead of 9. every casual fan now thinks its £40-£49 so they don't bother checking when it might be £30 

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35 minutes ago, Harrysgame said:

Easy to change that; corporate is good enough. Easy enough to make some more space for disabled fans got loads of space on the lepp.

Thing they need to upgrade would be the Press and TV areas. Been in quite a few press areas at PL clubs and dedicated rooms and banks of seats for all the press with monitors, internet access and live commentary. Not unusual at a PL game to have 20 _ 40 press guys including overseas hacks.

In 1985-86 Aston Villa averaged 15218 we averaged 23101

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On 30/10/2019 at 09:00, Castleford Owl said:

The stat regarding not averaging 30,000 is misleading, considering we’ve been out of the top flight for 20 years and crowds then were much lower. In 1991/92 we averaged over 29,000, which was the 4th highest in the league and higher than league champions Leeds. The following season we had the 6th highest average. If we were ever able to utilise our full capacity again (which seems unlikely) we would average well over 30,000 in this day and age. Even United have managed that already, and should do again (despite not selling out once yet).


You’ve correctly raised a point that the 30K stat is midleading

but then you’ve given a misleading stat about Leeds United.

 

In 1992 season league champions Leeds were building their big stand, so for most games capacity was just 30K, which they sold out.

Whereas Hillsboro had a capacity of just over 40K in 1992.

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18 minutes ago, handworth52 said:

ive been to villa in 1985 and villa park for semi in 86 . villa have never had 10000 crowds ,either its a misprint or there was some mass protest going on regards doug ellis at the time ,also in them days there were a lot of trouble and I think it put a lot off going . why would villa park have 45000 capacity ground but only get 10000 in top flight? don't make sense. I think chansiri has made a huge mistake regards pricing , once your out of habit of going you may never go back .also if prices were much simpler ie 3 categories instead of 9. every casual fan now thinks its £40-£49 so they don't bother checking when it might be £30 

1986...Villa averaged 15'000....Highest 27'000...lowest 8 000....

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1 minute ago, asteener1867 said:

1986...Villa averaged 15'000....Highest 27'000...lowest 8 000....

football at the time must have been on a massive downer as clubs like these had 45000 capacity yet had 22% of ground sold  for a game in august in top flight ,very strange 

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On 30/10/2019 at 18:57, Colinwestzicoest said:

Yes, get to the premier league & you're in a different dimension. I don't go now for a number of reasons but cost is a massive factor, however if we got to the premier league I would be getting myself & my child a season ticket, as I know it could be a once in 20 years opportunity! There are thousands like me. Plus the premier league is also a big draw for local neutrals looking to go & see a game at that level. Our attendances would receive a boost from this. Hillsborough for a premier league game would also be a much bigger draw for a neutral than the sty if the pigs are still up. 


SAG might have something to say about that. Neutrals are banned from Bramall Lane.
SUFC in consultation withSAG insist you must provide you address and be on the customer database, also must have a buying history of about 3 previous matches.

Basically neutrals are obliged to go to cup matches first to build up loyalty points....which if they’re are not likely to do.

 

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4 minutes ago, handworth52 said:

football at the time must have been on a massive downer as clubs like these had 45000 capacity yet had 22% of ground sold  for a game in august in top flight ,very strange 

Thats been my point all along mate....Football always has gone up and down....stats can do most anything...

United make much of the 30'000 limit...aske 'em about 40'000?

They have never come close...Wednesday averaged that 4 times...when football was "In Vogue"

2 of those seasons in the old second division

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23 hours ago, OWL1969 said:

It would. Do you know how many season tickets SUFC have this season? 

Do you think their support is bigger than ours?

 


They’ve not released actual figures but reports suggest 24 to 25K.

SU season tickets were suspended, taken off sale the day after Leeds lost to Brentford, about 2 week before the end of the season.

 

They never went on sale again......the club said they’d already hit record numbers and under PL rules had to hold some back for general sale.

Apparently PL rules states that clubs must have a cap on season ticket sales.

 

History shows that usually whatever United do attendance wise then SW beat it by approx 10%- 15%

SW would surely be averaging 35K ish in the top flight..

However of course much depends on pricing....there are options to watch matches for free....so pricing needs to be fair to entice fans.

Edited by sheffsteel

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15 minutes ago, asteener1867 said:

Thats been my point all along mate....Football always has gone up and down....stats can do most anything...

United make much of the 30'000 limit...aske 'em about 40'000?

They have never come close...Wednesday averaged that 4 times...when football was "In Vogue"

2 of those seasons in the old second division


Statistics regards attendances can prove almost anything.

However even the 1950’s attendances can be taken with a pinch of salt as many 1000’s of Sheffielders used to go to both grounds

Many were general Sheffield football fans (with a preference for Owls or Blades)  and attracted to the bigger match dependant on the opposition.

 

Football changed again in the late 60’s/ early 70’s when television become popular.

The successful teams of those periods received regular national coverage/ advertising.

This explains why Leeds United timed their success to perfection picking up 10,000’s of extra fans all over the country.

 

Football has changed again in the 2010’s with mass popularity of social media. Football has never been as popular.

BUT it helps massively if you’re in the PL due to the world wide publicity.

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3 hours ago, sheffsteel said:


They’ve not released actual figures but reports suggest 24 to 25K.

SU season tickets were suspended, taken off sale the day after Leeds lost to Brentford, about 2 week before the end of the season.

 

They never went on sale again......the club said they’d already hit record numbers and under PL rules had to hold some back for general sale.

Apparently PL rules states that clubs must have a cap on season ticket sales.

 

History shows that usually whatever United do attendance wise then SW beat it by approx 10%- 15%

SW would surely be averaging 35K ish in the top flight..

However of course much depends on pricing....there are options to watch matches for free....so pricing needs to be fair to entice fans.

I know you sold out every season ticket, but didn't know how many were released.

Your right we generally about 10-15% more than you and normally given similar season would still have higher attendances.

However due to our current pricing and your current place in the PL, my opinion is the gap is certainly closing and if things continue as they currently are, the last 3 seasons (when you've averaged more than us) would not be the exception but rather the Norm.

 

We have to either start charging prices more in line with the majority of other Championship clubs or get to the PL.

If not I think our days as generally being seen as Sheffield's bigger supported club, could well be numbered. 

The best opportunity you will ever have to surpass us in these terms, for the long term is now

 

Many Owls won't admit it, but the tide in turns of long term larger support, (not football quality, that's already gone) could well be turning.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Bulldog said:

This season, yes....unfortunately!

I may be being pedantic here but  you haven't answered the question at all. The question was

Do you think their support is bigger than ours?

It wasn't who are averaging the larger crowds this season  (or the previous 2 for that matter.)

 

Answer the question I asked, you may feel their support is bigger than ours, in which case your opinion that we wouldn't get 30k would be valid in your mind, if not I don't really understand how you think we wouldn't average 30k in the PL.

 

 All about opinions though, until  (IF) we get there we won't know.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 30/10/2019 at 19:42, Mycroft said:

We would fill any capacity SAG would allow us, comfortably if united can do it stands to reason Wednesday would to.

 

 

 

 

Would Rovrum Owls need a bigger coach ?  FFS  :unsure:

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1 hour ago, OWL1969 said:

I know you sold out every season ticket, but didn't know how many were released.

Your right we generally about 10-15% more than you and normally given similar season would still have higher attendances.

However due to our current pricing and your current place in the PL, my opinion is the gap is certainly closing and if things continue as they currently are, the last 3 seasons (when you've averaged more than us) would not be the exception but rather the Norm.

 

We have to either start charging prices more in line with the majority of other Championship clubs or get to the PL.

If not I think our days as generally being seen as Sheffield's bigger supported club, could well be numbered. 

The best opportunity you will ever have to surpass us in these terms, for the long term is now

 

Many Owls won't admit it, but the tide in turns of long term larger support, (not football quality, that's already gone) could well be turning.

 

 

The prices certainly help , United have a higher percentage of fans who go to games but that is from a smaller pool. There’s more people who are Wednesday fans than United and I would love DC make a promise to drop prices if we go up. But you have to remember we got bigger gates a few years back with restrictions on capacity and away followings when finishing fourth than they did last season. Reverse the prices and league placing and the gap in attendance would be huge 

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30 minutes ago, jamiejohn said:

The prices certainly help , United have a higher percentage of fans who go to games but that is from a smaller pool. There’s more people who are Wednesday fans than United and I would love DC make a promise to drop prices if we go up. But you have to remember we got bigger gates a few years back with restrictions on capacity and away followings when finishing fourth than they did last season. Reverse the prices and league placing and the gap in attendance would be huge 

I agree, the fact that we have had larger crowds than them for 32 of the last 40 seasons, (that's including this one) despite finishing higher than them in only 25 of those seasons (and twice getting higher crowds whilst being in a lower division) shows generally/historically we get bigger gates than them.

 

My point is that this could change and as things currently stand, with both clubs pricing and both clubs league status now is the best chance they have had over those 40 years to catch and even overtake us.

I hope they don't but think it is more than feasible that they could with how things are going at the moment, once fans stop going (us) it's difficult to lure them back.

Whereas they are getting not only the longtime Blades supporters but also currently the "floaters" who moved come into Sheffield (students etc) who would rather watch PL football than Championship.

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6 minutes ago, OWL1969 said:

I agree, the fact that we have had larger crowds than them for 32 of the last 40 seasons, (that's including this one) despite finishing higher than them in only 25 of those seasons (and twice getting higher crowds whilst being in a lower division) shows generally/historically we get bigger gates than them.

 

My point is that this could change and as things currently stand, with both clubs pricing and both clubs league status now is the best chance they have had over those 40 years to catch and even overtake us.

I hope they don't but think it is more than feasible that they could with how things are going at the moment, once fans stop going (us) it's difficult to lure them back.

Whereas they are getting not only the longtime Blades supporters but also currently the "floaters" who moved come into Sheffield (students etc) who would rather watch PL football than Championship.

Yes I agree they have a chance but it would take a good few years of on field superiority. City for instance are still not as big as Man U despite being far better for a good few years. Getting promoted ASAP would nip it in the bud, wilder jumping ship would also help as at the minute he’s the one reason they have the upper hand 

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15 hours ago, bradowl said:

Stay in top 6 all season and we'll be close to matching that 27k. 

To get anywhere near that figure we need over 28k for every home game between now and the end of the season.

So I doubt it.

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13 hours ago, Harrysgame said:

If we do get up can easily see 27K ST sales.

Under the current ground conditions we wouldn't be allowed to sell that many.

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21 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Under the current ground conditions we wouldn't be allowed to sell that many.

 

You seem to be determined to downplay Wednesdays support but Im confident that if we charged average Premiership ticket prices then we sell out our ground if it was still the 39000 capacity before SAG got all grumpy.

 

If we could maintain a decent Premiership standing for five seasons or more and challenging seriously for Europe and the cup compertions then we could fill a 45-50000 stadium.  As could and I hate to say it United. 

 

 

 

 

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