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Carole Baskin

Time for Lee & Luongo to start

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1 minute ago, torryowl said:

 

 

For some reason it won't let me quote you, however today I thought Iorfa was less assured and rushed a lot.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, stocksyuto said:

Yea and some like tonight were embarrassing 

 

I must admit, you’ve stumped me. Which bits were embarrassing?

 

To make the out of the ordinary pass you need to try things that don’t always come off or your team mates don’t read. If he could do it every time he’d be playing for Real Madrid.

 

Barry Bannan embarrassing?!?!?

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2 minutes ago, Beholder said:

Yes he did. 

 

But then couldn't recreate it. 

 

And it was Barnsley. 

 

We both seem to agree on Barnsley?!

 

You can't recreate it if you aren't given the chance.

 

 

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1 minute ago, No 2 is r nilsson said:

Most teams know they have to man mark Bannan out of the game or he’ll run it in the middle.  He’s not given any space.  Rather than drop him we need other players to pick up some of the creativity that Bannan offers. 

The only other spark of creativity came from FF. The difficulty is fitting him into the system

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10 minutes ago, Salmonbones said:

 

I don't get this.   Why not?  For all he offers, he also makes the team at times one dimensional.  Now, don't get me wrong, when he's on song he is a joy to behold but I do think we should mix it up and not be predictable for the opposition also.

Agree !!! 

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1 minute ago, sw1867 said:

 

I must admit, you’ve stumped me. Which bits were embarrassing?

 

To make the out of the ordinary pass you need to try things that don’t always come off or your team mates don’t read. If he could do it every time he’d be playing for Real Madrid.

 

Barry Bannan embarrassing?!?!?

 

Bannan tonight was not an issue, he played fine - the issue was the pressing by Stoke, none of our players to a man coped with it well.   Most of our forward passing was rushed and poor.

 

Bannan didn't have a great game because of this pressing, which some sides do specifically to Bannan only (mainly Warnock's sides) - but tonight Stoke seemed to be absolutely fired up and willing to chase and win every ball, and every 50/50 - I don't get why we can't be like this more often, and I harp back to the Barnsley game again but that was the last time I saw us do this.

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4 minutes ago, Salmonbones said:

 

With no one to pass to tonight, he was frustrated somewhat.

 

Lee and Luongo are the type to make space, be creative and offer alternatives.

 

The problem with Bannan is he won't play left of centre, which would be ideal, then you could accommodate all of them.

 

I do agree with you to a certain extent in that Lee and Luongo would make a very good partnership however, not having Bannan playing in the centre of midfield would in my opinion by a mistake.

 

Bannan creates so much and is always available as an option taking so much pressure off us. As I’ve just put in another post, he doesn’t get it right every time but if he did he’d not be playing at Hillsborough. 

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3 minutes ago, Salmonbones said:

 

We both seem to agree on Barnsley?!

 

You can't recreate it if you aren't given the chance.

 

 

To be fair Bannan didn't play against Barnsley and Lee did. 

 

It could work.

 

I just don't see Monk trying it anytime soon. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Salmonbones said:

 

Bannan tonight was not an issue, he played fine - the issue was the pressing by Stoke, none of our players to a man coped with it well.   Most of our forward passing was rushed and poor.

 

Bannan didn't have a great game because of this pressing, which some sides do specifically to Bannan only (mainly Warnock's sides) - but tonight Stoke seemed to be absolutely fired up and willing to chase and win every ball, and every 50/50 - I don't get why we can't be like this more often, and I harp back to the Barnsley game again but that was the last time I saw us do this.

 

All fair points. My main gripe was at Bannan being described as ‘embarrassing’ (not by you :rolleyes:)

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1 minute ago, sw1867 said:

 

All fair points. My main gripe was at Bannan being described as ‘embarrassing’ (not by you :rolleyes:)

 

Bannan has poor games - but i've never seen him have a game I thought he wasn't worth the shirt.

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What did Monk say about the Luongo injury.

We need him Saturday 

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I'm not sure Lee & Luongo would really be effective as a pairing, they're very similar players, who make the same sort of runs and movement? 

 

As for the dropping bannan thoughts. 

I do agree in a way everything has to go through him, so if you nullify him with a decent marker we struggle. 

I'll not re-hash the old thoughts, of him dropping deep and when pressured as we all know this, but I do think he's more effective in home games when we have space and possession. 

 

 

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I'm gonna sit and watch this debate pan out, cos I've been saying this about BB for a good while.

 

The bit about benching him that is....

Edited by spike1867

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Drop Bannan!?!?

 

For Christ’s sake let it stop.

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5 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

Drop Bannan!?!?

 

For Christ’s sake let it stop.

Nah sorry, I couldn't just sit there.... Why? What is it about BB that makes him undroppable? Is it his goals? His defensive and organisational ability? His leadership? Maybe his ability to play penetrating passes? Set piece excellence? His running off the ball? I've got it, its the way he grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and dominates it...

 

Your right HO, let it stop. This pre conceived notion that he is instrumental in all the good that we do is skewed by the fact that EVERYTHING goes through him.  You're a stats man, going right back to the first time we lost Bannan to a red card in CCs first season, how have we done when he's been out for a couple of games? I'm not saying bench him indefinitely, but we're back to plan B territory again. We look better with Luongo in there, but we need more than one central midfielder getting around our single striker.

 

I'll be fair, it's not really his fault. He doesn't have a striker spinning in behind. He hasn't got a ballsy midfield runner making space and dragging markers. Harris and Reach aren't coming ofc there wing on the diagonal too much either.  We're so reliant on Harris or Reach to get us up the pitch by carrying it into advanced positions that it's back to that age old discussion about the effectiveness of wingers and how easy it is to cut off supply. We don't have naturally overlapping fullbacks to overload the opposition. So I ask again, what exactly does BB give us in this team?

 

Answer, a selection headache because he's "undroppable" and the team needs more dynamism than it currently has. If we get a quick Vardy type striker in January, or a marauding midfielder, or a couple full backs who are comfortable and offer threat getting forward, I pretty much guarantee that we won't be having this debate, because then the lad would have better options.

 

FFS let it stop is right....we won, I'm delighted because like I said, I'd take a 1-0 over a 5-5, but we have to offer more going forward and if we are going to play the single central striker, we have to get more bodies around him. We need to kill teams off because we will come unstuck otherwise.

 

Rant over, my meds are kicking in. 3rd place, bring on the dirty weeds for a try at top spot again.

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2 hours ago, No 2 is r nilsson said:

Most teams know they have to man mark Bannan out of the game or he’ll run it in the middle.  He’s not given any space.  Rather than drop him we need other players to pick up some of the creativity that Bannan offers. 


I don’t recall any team man marking Bannan if by that you mean dedicating one player the task of following Bannan and sticking only with him. Correct me if I’m wrong. I do accept some teams will collectively try and stop him influencing the game in order to make the team less effective at times. 

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2 hours ago, Oliver Cromwell said:

The only other spark of creativity came from FF. The difficulty is fitting him into the system


FF is perfectly suited to 4-3-3 in a “Mo Salah” type role. Or what used to be called inside forward. 
 

He is also perfectly suited to 4-2-3-1 in a “Son Heung-min” type role

 

Wouldn’t want to fit him into 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 as we have better options

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Posters should try and be less emotionally invested in players, positive or negative. It’s not a question of “haters” or “clappers” is not about dropping BB more a question of horses for courses. 

 

We all love BB because he loves our club and plays for our shirt with 100% commitment. We love his grumpy Scottish face and his questionable barnet. He provides most assists. 
And who can forget Bazzas bouncing bogey!!!

 

However....

 

BB isn’t suited to a 4-3-3. Nothing against him personally but it doesn’t suit his strengths. 

 

Take Liverpool with Henderson, Fabinho & Wijnaldum. None are what you would call creative but all are athletic, energetic and disciplined. Lee, Hutch, Luongo are closest we have. 

 

You could argue Man City play a 3 with De Bruyne, Rodri and Silva, where BB could do the Silva role. However, Silva is more mobile than BB and Citty play a high press and possession based tactic which allows them to move up and down the pitch as a compact unit therefore Silva isn’t exposed defensively. 

4-3-3: Palmer; Iorfa; Borner; Fox; Lee; Hutch; Luongo; FF; Fletch; Harris

 

For the same reason BB isn’t suited to 4-4-2, in the way we play, with wingers. We are too easily overrun in centre midfield.  Hutch and Luongo would be better in that formation. 

4-4-2: Palmer; Iorfa; Borner; Fox; Reach;Hutch; Luongo; Harris; Fletch; Winnall

 

BB is best suited to 3-5-2 where he can focus on recycling play and creating opportunities for the strikers

3-5-2:: Iorfa; Lees; Borner; Odubajo; Hutch; BB; Luongo; Reach; Fletch; Winnall 

 

He also suits 4-2-3-1 in a similar role to that played by Eriksen at Spurs. Problem here is none of last 3 managers have been able to get BB high enough up the pitch. 

4-2-3-1: Palmer; Iorfa; Borner; Fox; Hutch; Luongo; FF, BB, Harris; Fletch

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7 hours ago, bradowl said:

Definitely a no from me with leaving Bannan out. 


bannan was poor second half against Cardiff and poor in the second half again last night...wasteful and put us under unnecessary pressure at times. 

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