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1 minute ago, Beholder said:

How many of those goals came when Dawson should have saved them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because I know you will dodge the question I'll give you the answer-

 

It's zero. 

 

You’ve got a very good memory if you remember every goal he conceded last season. And for that I won’t dodge the question and admit I am so very wrong and you’re so very right and with a memory like yours I doubt you are ever wrong? :rolleyes:

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Dawson is a good shot stopper and arguably a better kicker than westwood.

 

But for me, in the Cardif game if westwood plays we win that game. There is no way in hell Westwood would have let that free kick be taken with a 7ft star jumping thrower in front of him.

 

This is where Dawson needs to improve, he's too soft. You look at some of the best schmeichel, Neuer. not only are they good shot stoppers they also don't take any crap, if someone does something wrong they tell them no matter who they are.

 

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3 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

You’ve got a very good memory if you remember every goal he conceded last season. And for that I won’t dodge the question and admit I am so very wrong and you’re so very right and with a memory like yours I doubt you are ever wrong? :rolleyes:

Haha.

 

Well like most about of us here I watch every game and don't recall one error by Dawson.

 

The goals conceded tally wasn't down to him.  

 

However I would agree that Westwood is first choice because of the confidence he instills. 

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2 minutes ago, Beholder said:

Haha.

 

Well like most about of us here I watch every game and don't recall one error by Dawson.

 

The goals conceded tally wasn't down to him.  

 

However I would agree that Westwood is first choice because of the confidence he instills. 

 

And in some ways your last sentence fuels my argument as to why we concede so many goals when Dawson plays. He gives the defence little confidence so he finds himself with more to do hence the reason the greater probability we concede with him playing?

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14 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

42 goals conceded in 24 championship games last season. And some on here say he’s a decent keeper and he doesn’t concede a goal a game? 

 

And getting these facts from my ar$e was so f***ing painful it was untrue :laugh:

 

I'd much rather have Westwood in goal, Dawson has his limitations but as a number 2 goalkeeper he is fine as a back up, it would be difficult to find someone of much better ability within a similar budget happy to sit on the bench most games and Dawson has many years to come.

 

His stats this season are good, it is a bit unfair to judge him on last season when most of his games came under the hapless management of Luhukay. At that time he was relatively inexperienced and had little in the way of leadership, experience or continuity of selection in the defence in front of him. We are set up much better defensively now and he doesn't look likely to continually concede 2 goals a game like he did last season.

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1 minute ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

And in some ways your last sentence fuels my argument as to why we concede so many goals when Dawson plays. He gives the defence little confidence so he finds himself with more to do hence the reason the greater probability we concede with him playing?

 Not 100% sure its confidence, its communication.

 

From the off you can hear Westwood screaming at the defenders telling them where players are (if there behind them, how many, when to drop back and push up). When Dawson's in the net you can hear a mouse fart.

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8 minutes ago, Beholder said:

Haha.

 

Well like most about of us here I watch every game and don't recall one error by Dawson.

 

The goals conceded tally wasn't down to him.  

 

However I would agree that Westwood is first choice because of the confidence he instills. 

 

At least 2 things wrong with that sentence. The reason we conceded so many goals wasn't Dawson's fault but to say he didn't make 1 error last season is just daft. Norwich at home for a start, 2 of the goals he would have been unhappy with his contribution. 

 

As for most people on here watching every Wednesday game.......:ghoulguy:

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Westwood’s a powder puff 

Never known a goalie get injured as much

 

Good keeper though

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Nicky Weaver needs to do his job.

When Dawson first got a run of games towards the end of Jos’s first season he was very good at coming out for crosses.

He has the ability and stature.

 

However confidence is a strange think. He came for the first cross on Friday, got in a tangle, and never came again.

 

It is difficult when you are a back up keeper with everybody waiting for you to make a mistake.

 

Weaver needs to get him playing with confidence, and show he is a good coach. Andy Rhodes did.

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11 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

Frightens me too mate. Guaranteed at least 1 goal conceded a game. And before anyone starts calling me negative, look up the facts lol 

Do you always talk complete s*it or is it just an Owlstalk thing?

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4 hours ago, WalthamOwl said:

Think Dawson will be a good keeper for us when he starts commanding his area better. For now I would much rather Westwood be our number 1. In January I would be tempted to let Dawson go on loan to gain more experience, obviously depending on our own keeper situations. 

 

Commanding the area against Colin's team is not the easiest.

 

22 free kicks when you're up against bodies resembling those in WWF.

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53 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

Nicky Weaver needs to do his job.

When Dawson first got a run of games towards the end of Jos’s first season he was very good at coming out for crosses.

He has the ability and stature.

 

However confidence is a strange think. He came for the first cross on Friday, got in a tangle, and never came again.

 

It is difficult when you are a back up keeper with everybody waiting for you to make a mistake.

 

Weaver needs to get him playing with confidence, and show he is a good coach. Andy Rhodes did.

 

Might have a point there.

I seem to remember Weaver not being the most willing to come off his line.

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4 hours ago, mark77 said:

Dawson has conceded 1 goal in 3 games. Westwood has been at fault for the red card at Reading, the goals at Millwall and at home to Fulham.

 

Don't get me wrong Westwood is the clear number 1 but this myth that Dawson is error prone is exactly that. He's been very consistent with very few errors that have cost us. Somehow Wildsmith seems to be 'clearly better' despite making numerous howlers in previous seasons. I went to an U23 game where he actually made 3 howlers in the space of 20 minutes. 

 

Dawson won us a point on Friday night with his late save.

Dawson cost us a goal with his awful positioning on Friday and got away with another howler too just before that. Bottom line is both of these back up goalies aren’t Championship standard. If we’d signed them from other clubs everyone would say the same thing, but because they came through the academy they seem to get a free pass on here

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3 hours ago, Ian said:

When people are going on about commanding the area I think they miss the point that this method of keeping is very rarely practiced in modern football for a variety of reasons.....even the top premier league keepers very rarely come charging off their line to claim crosses like we used to see.

 

theres a variety of reasons for this including that attacking teams work on how to block keepers from doing this, the modern ball and players ability to move it around in the air and wit( particular reference to Friday night, the weather conditions......you’ve only got to see their keepers save in the first half where a shot from distance was straight down his throat and he elected to punch it away

 

if you what to see keepers “commanding their area” then it’s not Westwood or any other keeper you need it’s a trip back to the 1980’s

ok, but the top and bottom of it is, he can't catch a ball decently and cleanly when asked to do so in comparison to westwood, and this is when judged against a westwood who is not what he once was. 

should he have an extended run in the side, this will become common knowledge and cost us often.

BUT the gap between westood and (the unimproving) dawson is narrowing, this for me tells us we need a new first Xl keeper next term, or even in the upcoming window (depending upon westwood's fitness and form).

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4 hours ago, mark77 said:

Dawson has conceded 1 goal in 3 games. Westwood has been at fault for the red card at Reading, the goals at Millwall and at home to Fulham.

 

Don't get me wrong Westwood is the clear number 1 but this myth that Dawson is error prone is exactly that. He's been very consistent with very few errors that have cost us. Somehow Wildsmith seems to be 'clearly better' despite making numerous howlers in previous seasons. I went to an U23 game where he actually made 3 howlers in the space of 20 minutes. 

 

Dawson won us a point on Friday night with his late save.

Unless I’m wrong off the top of my head, the 3 games you’re talking about are 10 mins against Reading, a game against the bottom team at home, and a game at which he was at least partly responsible for the goal conceded by not positioning himself right.

 

Westwood had a poor start to the season but he usually comes good for us. 

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12 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

Frightens me too mate. Guaranteed at least 1 goal conceded a game. And before anyone starts calling me negative, look up the facts lol 

 

Every goalie concedes at least 1 goal a game on average. E.g. Peter Schmeichel was one of the best keepers ever, and played for the most successful team, but pick a random season that Man United won the title and he's conceding a goal a game (e.g. 96/97 = 44 goals conceded in 38 games).

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2 hours ago, Beholder said:

Dawson is a good keeper. 

 

I'm fine with him playing an extended run if needed.

You must be fine with midtable then lol

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As fans, we constantly crave the necessity to bring players through our academy, and blood our own youngsters.

 

Yet, as soon as any promising youngster comes through, we cannot wait to throw them to the lions. It happened with Wildsmith two seasons ago, last season Baker, Penney and Dawson all took flak for not performing consistently (despite playing with senior pros who were performing poorly at the time).

 

And it's continued this season with Dawson getting uncalled for and totally undeserved criticism. 

 

Dawson is a fantastic prospect. And he, without doubt, has the potential and attributes to become our number one for a very long time. But Westwood's almost God-like status, has almost made Dawson his antithesis, instead of the natural progression. If people actually watch games subjectively, it's clear Westwood is on the decline. He's made an alarmingly increasing rate of mistakes this season...and yet, Dawson comes in, performs admirably, and yet is castigated, for conceding a free kick from 20 yards out. It's pure hypocrisy. 

 

Is it really too much to ask SUPPORTERS to SUPPORT the future of OUR football club? 

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9 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

As fans, we constantly crave the necessity to bring players through our academy, and blood our own youngsters.

 

Yet, as soon as any promising youngster comes through, we cannot wait to throw them to the lions. It happened with Wildsmith two seasons ago, last season Baker, Penney and Dawson all took flak for not performing consistently (despite playing with senior pros who were performing poorly at the time).

 

And it's continued this season with Dawson getting uncalled for and totally undeserved criticism. 

 

Dawson is a fantastic prospect. And he, without doubt, has the potential and attributes to become our number one for a very long time. But Westwood's almost God-like status, has almost made Dawson his antithesis, instead of the natural progression. If people actually watch games subjectively, it's clear Westwood is on the decline. He's made an alarmingly increasing rate of mistakes this season...and yet, Dawson comes in, performs admirably, and yet is castigated, for conceding a free kick from 20 yards out. It's pure hypocrisy. 

 

Is it really too much to ask SUPPORTERS to SUPPORT the future of OUR football club? 

He’s not a kid anymore, he’s 24. Ederson is 26 and Allisson is 27. Not even that much younger than them and they’re two of the best in the world. De Gea was a regular for Man U at a younger age. Westwood was a number 1 at a far younger age than 24. What they all have in common is the quality when they play. Dawson doesn’t have that.

 

its ok saying that we should blood the youngsters but they need to be good enough. Unfortunately Baker is cr*p, probably won’t make it as a pro. Wildsmith made a good start and then fell away.. it happens. It’s down to him to show he’s good enough and he clearly hasn’t done that. Dawson has massive faults in his game, it’s obvious to anyone not wearing Blue and white tinted glasses. He’ll end up in League 2 when he leaves here. Penney is the only one there where you think he could maybe make it at championship level.. see how his loan goes

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2 hours ago, Beholder said:

Haha.

 

Well like most about of us here I watch every game and don't recall one error by Dawson.

 

The goals conceded tally wasn't down to him.  

 

However I would agree that Westwood is first choice because of the confidence he instills. 

Norwich last season at home. Swansea away through his legs.  And that’s just off the top of my head!!

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