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26 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

Amazing that people still have that view isn’t it. Carlos the great because he got us in the play offs :laugh: Those players (FF, Hooper, Bannan etc) were arguably st their peak a few years ago, Irvine could have got that squad in the play offs. It’s almost criminal we didn’t end up going up 

 

How do you explain the fact we outperformed the budget both seasons?

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56 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

Amazing that people still have that view isn’t it. Carlos the great because he got us in the play offs :laugh: Those players (FF, Hooper, Bannan etc) were arguably st their peak a few years ago, Irvine could have got that squad in the play offs. It’s almost criminal we didn’t end up going up 

Not as amazing as some dismissing his tenure as being "nowt special". 

I'll take those 2 seasons as memorable amongst the shower of shyte it was prior too and since thanks. 

 

As for the Alan Irvine comment...................... Wow. 

Edited by DELUDED OWL
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6 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

Didn’t we sign Rhodes permanently in the second season?

 

im not talking about the budget anyway, I’m talking about the quality of players at disposal 

 

No, we signed him the summer after season 2.

 

If your saying we signed better quality players than our rivals who spent more, which is not something I tend to agree with.  Most people would view that as canny business.  Only on here is it spun as a negative.

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4 minutes ago, DELUDED OWL said:

Not as amazing as some dismissing his tenure as being "nowt special". 

I'll take those 2 seasons as memorable amongst the shower of shyte it was prior too and since thanks. 

 

As for the Alan Irvine comment...................... Wow. 

Those seasons mean nothing to me as we didn’t go up, but fine if you feel like that 

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Just now, Sham67 said:

 

No, we signed him the summer after season 2.

 

If your saying we signed better quality players than our rivals who spent more, which is not something I tend to agree with.  Most people would view that as canny business.  Only on here is it spun as a negative.

But that’s a different subject altogether. Shrewd business yes, but ultimately we should have gone up, IMO 

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12 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

 

No, we signed him the summer after season 2.

 

If your saying we signed better quality players than our rivals who spent more, which is not something I tend to agree with.  Most people would view that as canny business.  Only on here is it spun as a negative.

 

We should thank the likes of Paul Alderidge, Stuart Gray, Glenn Roeder, Milan Mandaric etc for the shrewdness of many transfer deals between 2012 and 2015 where we recruited some very decent players with relatively small outlays and sensible wages.

 

Not Carvalhal.

 

Carvalhal inherited the reigns of this club at a fantastic time.  What an opportunity.  Sadly he left us in a right old mess.

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10 minutes ago, DELUDED OWL said:

So on that basis then, no season since 91 mean owt.? 

I just can’t celebrate a 6/4th place finish. Was enjoyable at the time but quickly forgotten. Christ our fans will deem anything as success won’t they. And for the record the 2004/2005 season meant something 

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25 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

We should thank the likes of Paul Alderidge, Stuart Gray, Glenn Roeder, Milan Mandaric etc for the shrewdness of many transfer deals between 2012 and 2015 where we recruited some very decent players with relatively small outlays and sensible wages.

 

Not Carvalhal

 

Carvalhal inherited the reigns of this club at a fantastic time.  What an opportunity.  Sadly he left us in a right old mess.

 

Correct.  

However, which ever way want to look at it.  He outperformed the budget both seasons.  I know people have the dangerous tendency these days to ignore facts which do not fit their views.  That is a fact and the truth cannot be challenged because people don't like it.  As a society we are heading down a dark path if that is allowed to happen. 

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4 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

I just can’t celebrate a 6/4th place finish. Was enjoyable at the time but quickly forgotten. Christ our fans will deem anything as success won’t they. And for the record the 2004/2005 season meant something 

Reyt, so promotion from division 3 does it for ya......... cool....... the league that useless Irvine took us to. 

 

Ya reyt, I am easily pleased. 

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23 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

 

Correct.  

However, which ever way want to look at it.  He outperformed the budget both seasons.  I know people have the dangerous tendency these days to ignore facts which do not fit their views.  That is a fact and the truth cannot be challenged because people don't like it.  As a society we are heading down a dark path if that is allowed to happen. 

 

But Carvalhal didn’t outperform with the quality of squad we had at that time.  Over the 2 and a half seasons, I’d say he underperformed.  A better manager would have got that squad promoted.  He left us battling against relegation and as a club we’ve only just started to recover from his spell here.

 

Hiring Carvalhal has been Chansiri’s biggest mistake since he bought the club IMO.

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17 minutes ago, DELUDED OWL said:

Reyt, so promotion from division 3 does it for ya......... cool....... the league that useless Irvine took us to. 

 

Ya reyt, I am easily pleased. 

Don’t be simple. If we’re talking success then that is deemed as success. 6th and 4th place finishes with a team that should have gone up isn’t. 

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Just now, Westfield Owl said:

 

But Carvalhal didn’t outperform with the quality of squad we had at that time.  Over the 2 and a half seasons, I’d say he underperformed.  A better manager would have got that squad promoted.  He left us battling against relegation and as a club we’ve only just started to recover from his spell here.

 

Hiring Carvalhal has been Chansiri’s biggest mistake since he bought the club IMO.

 

I'm sorry, but it seems like you are struggling to understand.  More than 6 teams in our league had larger budgets than us both seasons.  Therefore by finishing 6th and 4th, he outperformed the budget.  That is a fact and not open to discussion.  It is legitimate to debate his merits and what other people would have achieved with the same squad.  However that does not give you the right to question the truth.

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11 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

 

I'm sorry, but it seems like you are struggling to understand.  More than 6 teams in our league had larger budgets than us both seasons.  Therefore by finishing 6th and 4th, he outperformed the budget.  That is a fact and not open to discussion.  It is legitimate to debate his merits and what other people would have achieved with the same squad.  However that does not give you the right to question the truth.

 

No I understand perfectly.  Thanks for patronising.

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12 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

Try reading what I actually put @Sham67

 

I said with the quality of the squad, a better manager would have got us promoted.

 

I haven’t commented on the budgets.  Have I?

 

No, but you disagreed with (negged) my post about outperforming the budget.

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2 hours ago, Sham67 said:

 

No, but you disagreed with (negged) my post about outperforming the budget.

 

I negged your post because your response to @FreshOwl was a very simplistic refute to the point he made.

 

Budgets don’t dictate final league position.  Otherwise why did Norwich and the pigs get promoted last year?  Why did Sunderland get relegated in 2018 despite still paying Premier League wages?  There’s dozens of other examples I could give.

 

Take the 15/16 season for example.  We finished 6th in the league that year despite not having the 6th best budget.  On the surface you could argue that year should be classed as an over-performance.  But scratch beneath the surface...

 

If he hadn’t finished in the playoffs in the 15/16 season, then in my mind that season would have been underperformance.  The reason for that?  Try comparing the quality of player that we had in our squad (not what their wages were on) with McCarthy’s Ipswich team or Slade’s Cardiff team (those clubs finished 7th and 8th that year).

 

The quality of players in our squad, compared to those clubs was a few levels better.

 

Then try going down the league table.  Which clubs did we finish above that had better players than us?

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