Does 442 work in the Championship, or not?

[gurujuan]

Sometimes yeah

[Anlaby Owl]

Its less about the actual formation and move about how it is implemented and how the opposition deal with it.  For instance in carlos last year the slow build up (passing between the back line and deep laying midfielders) meant that the opposition had merely to keep their shape/discipline to ensure the hoped for gaps/spaces never occured.  Had we utilised wide men better (thereby spreading the players out more accross the pitch) it would have created more space between defenders and thereby given us some openings to play into.  This is the same regardless of the formation.  442 can be extremely attacking (more like 424) or equally as defensive, it depends how/where the ball & players are moved. 

[A E Neuman NYowl]

I think the system we played on Saturday was not a traditional old fashioned 442.

 

When you play Nuhiu like we did on Saturday it is more of a 4411 with Fletcher normally playing ahead of Nuhiu.

 

Nuhiu drops a little deeper to link the play from midfield and then break forward, this is role that Cantona was so good at for Manchester United. ( Before I get shot down not saying Nuhiu is comparable to Cantona.)

 

If we played Fletcher and Rhodes that would be more like a traditional 442 and we have seen that hasn't worked so far.

[Inspector Lestrade]

17 minutes ago, A E Neuman NYowl said:

I think the system we played on Saturday was not a traditional old fashioned 442.

 

When you play Nuhiu like we did on Saturday it is more of a 4411 with Fletcher normally playing ahead of Nuhiu.

 

Nuhiu drops a little deeper to link the play from midfield and then break forward, this is role that Cantona was so good at for Manchester United. ( Before I get shot down not saying Nuhiu is comparable to Cantona.)

 

If we played Fletcher and Rhodes that would be more like a traditional 442 and we have seen that hasn't worked so far.

 

Can just see Nuhiu with his collar up slowly turning round milking the applause then climbing aboard the trawler.

[peacock1961]

we won the world cup with 4-4-2 don't knock it.

[Inspector Lestrade]

24 minutes ago, peacock1961 said:

we won the world cup with 4-4-2 don't knock it.

 

 

Good job VAR wasn't around.

[fatzooma]

4-4-2 is the basis for any team when you consider a solid back 4, 2 wingers defensive mid and attacking mid.

its the flexibility within this that is key...

the modern game baffles me at times and is over complicated.

you can still attack in numbers and defend in numbers leaving a sole attacker...you can still have running full backs.

it all comes down to the managers philosophy and instilling the discipline in the shape.

 

i know what I mean even though I’ve confused myself..

[peacock1961]

8 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

 

 

Good job VAR wasn't around.

good point, would have ruined the 'two world wars and 1 world cup, do dah' chant.

[the mighty wednesday]

16 minutes ago, peacock1961 said:

good point, would have ruined the 'two world wars and 1 world cup, do dah' chant.

yes cos the d day landings would have been ruled out for offside.

Neil Swarbrick's grandad no doubt would have been in charge of VAR and Goebbels would have been in his ear all through the second half 

[Wizzard1867]

1 hour ago, A E Neuman NYowl said:

I think the system we played on Saturday was not a traditional old fashioned 442.

 

When you play Nuhiu like we did on Saturday it is more of a 4411 with Fletcher normally playing ahead of Nuhiu.

 

Nuhiu drops a little deeper to link the play from midfield and then break forward, this is role that Cantona was so good at for Manchester United. ( Before I get shot down not saying Nuhiu is comparable to Cantona.)

 

If we played Fletcher and Rhodes that would be more like a traditional 442 and we have seen that hasn't worked so far.

By God, this means after missing out on Cantona all those years ago, Nuhiu is now Wednesday's Cantona....

 

Cantona like Nuhiu was also an enigma 

 

[Wizzard1867]

Shearer and Sheringham 

Hirsty and Bright

Hughes and Cantona.

Fletcher and Nuhiu. 

442 isn't it?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Ozymandias Owl

[oldishowl]

1 hour ago, peacock1961 said:

we won the world cup with 4-4-2 don't knock it.

 

We didn’t use wingers tho

[Guest LittleG]

2 hours ago, bobness said:

 

We do have some talent on here, albeit slim pickings!

The only talent we have are a few comedians and story tellers, nothing tactic related.

[Holmowl]

9 hours ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

By God, this means after missing out on Cantona all those years ago, Nuhiu is now Wednesday's Cantona....

 

Cantona like Nuhiu was also an enigma 

 

 

As I type, Atdhe is printing this out to frame and put on his bedside table.

[Holmowl]

5 minutes ago, zico.b said:

Forget 4-4-2, the main reason we won on Saturday was an ability to put a decent ball into the danger areas. Couple that with a squad who have finally discovered that headed goals count.

 

Bingo!

 

Those decent balls came in from Reach and Harris.

 

Bingo wings!

[dorian gray]

12 hours ago, bobness said:

Call me old school, but I've always been a fan of 442. I'm no tactician though, and won't pretend to properly understand the mechanics behind the modern game.

 

For me though, under Monk we've looked best at 442, and for what it's worth, I never liked the idea of Fletcher as a lone striker. Perhaps "442 is for grandpas" is something that applies to football of the highest calibre, not the Championship. Can any of the resident tacticians provide some insight into what we've seen from Monk so far? Always appreciated a bit of tactical analysis.

the opposition, venue and occasionally what players he has at his disposal on a given day should influence his tactical approach, but generally ALL aspects of tactics should and will be open to consideration before and during the game, via on field movement of players and tactical substitutions.

anyone outside of the club thinking this, that, or the other will be omitted should be wrong, any manager short of using any and all formations and tactics is a hindrance.

I watched the dingle v Brentford game on tv yesterday, with the dings constantly throwing an upfield press and leaving their defence wide open, a better finishing side than Brentford would have scored 6.

stendle was castling the dice in the gamble of getting something, rather than accepting at 1-2 down the game was over, i'd understand any manager of ours doing that, as opposed to meekly accepting the status quo of 1-2 down.

I might add I was impressed with benrahma, and thought he'd look well in a wednesday shirt next season, ok it was only the dings, but they made him look like eden hazard.

[dorian gray]

27 minutes ago, zico.b said:

Forget 4-4-2, the main reason we won on Saturday was an ability to put a decent ball into the danger areas. Couple that with a squad who have finally discovered that headed goals count.

 

Bingo!

we have been putting balls into those areas before, but generally we had around four men involved in a multi- short passing build up on the flank before the cross came into fletcher our lone player in the middle marked up by 3 defenders and their keeper.

4-4-2 allows you to double the amount of men in the middle when the cross comes in, whilst playing one up with support needs a younger, fitter side to bring that support than we've been capable of putting out for some time previously.

[Sham67]

11 hours ago, peacock1961 said:

we won the world cup with 4-4-2 don't knock it.

 

England played with the classic 4-3-3 formation in the 1966 World Cup.  They were known as Alf's wingless wonders at the time.

[MotherGoose]

I’d say 442 generally means that you have a set role and should to be able to do that well. 
 

More dynamic formations mean you need more dynamic players and at this level you’re lucky if your players can do their job in one role consistently well. 
 

With exceptions of course but at this level I really think 442 works best because the players aren’t good enough to play like the top sides that can make these dynamic systems work where everyone has to be able to a bit of everything

[gurujuan]

11 hours ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

Shearer and Sheringham 

Hirsty and Bright

Hughes and Cantona.

Fletcher and Nuhiu. 

442 isn't it?

 

 

 

 

Latter day examples will be thin on the ground though