What ever happened to Cup Fever?

[Colin Dobson]

Of course Wednesday were one of five or six clubs who didn't enter to begin with - in fact their first League Cup tie(1967 I think) was a 1-0 home defeat to Rotherham! 

Can't disagree with the posts in this thread but at least I can say I saw Wednesday win a major trophy! 

It's likely to be the only one!

[OWL1969]

7 hours ago, Harrysgame said:

Funny had this discussion at work this am. I left the game on Tuesday with no real feelings of disappointment. If this had been a league game would have been plssed off. 

Think all cup s have been devalued used to be a route to play in europe now with the pl not difficult to qualify.

Days gone by a cup run generated welcome cash but with tv money the fixture is just an inconvenience.

Shame though used to love the cups.

That's the thing though, back in the 80s if you lost a League game you had another one coming up next week so it didn't matter that much.

BUT losing  a Cup match  (more accurately a FA Cup match) was the end of the dream.

Those 2 Semi Final defeats still hurt to this day, much more than any League match I can recall or any future one ever will. (and thats not to mention the 93 Final).

 

The difference to nowadays saddens me, the Cups just seem to be diversion in the season and defeat in them (especially the Lc) just doesn't seem to matter.

Oh for the days of 5 matches against the Mighty Arsenal for a sleeping giant 3rd division club or the 4 matches against Everton before getting hammered at home.

Or the midweek replays under the lights against Burnley or West Ham played out infront of huge passionate, desperate to win crowds,

 

Thing is, its these Cup memories  (that generally ended in heartbreak) that I will remember in my later years rather than the League games (often victories) against Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool etc. 

 

I feel  for the younger generation who will never have that feeling of genuine hopes and dreams, ecstacy and heartbreak that the Cup used to bring.

It was bigger than the League, sadly the FA let it die, the PL and Sky Money didn't help either, truly saddens me to see it how it is today.

Edited September 27, 2019 by OWL1969

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

I'm not going to say one particular player should have played. It was the number of changes made, which meant tactically it just looked like a practice game. That does not help any of the other players who came in. If your facing a team whose going to treat it in the same way, then it's a reasonable thing to do, but not when it was clear Everton were going to bring their big guns. 

 

When you have a home crowd you can't do what Monk did. I'm not even sure it's fair when its an away crowd. I was at Bolton away a couple of years ago and we got a much worse performance against a team we could have beaten.

 

People are committing their time and money to attending. The club, and players, should show the same commitment. 

 

I want to agree with you but there are so many issues within this debate.

I thought 8 changes were too many and would have liked to see a more settled defensive unit but can understand resting the likes of Fletcher, Bannan and Hutchinson. They can't play 50 games a season at full tilt and we appear to still have genuine hopes of a top 6 challenge.

 

Everton made 5 changes but even if they had made 8 or more they would have had a strong side compared with whatever we chose to put out. 

 

Football is a squad game now. Most sides in the top 2 divisions at least tend to have 2 players who can compete for each position in the first team. What is the point in having all these players if they aren't used in early round of the cup? When we won it we had a squad of 14 or 15 and if anyone got injured you either bought someone on a short term deal or played someone from the reserves who were generally youngs uns mixed with 1st team subs. 

Fitness levels in professional football are much higher now and you can't get away with having too many players playing who are well short of their level so bigger squads are needed.

 

I like the cups. The Arsenal game in 2015 is remembered more fondly by many than the vast majority of league games we have played since and I think that result gave us more confidence generally that season. One of our best league seasons in the past 20 years came at a time when we did take the league cup seriously and it gave us a boost.

I was disappointed with the side we put out on Tuesday but wasn't surprised by it and we could just as easily have lost the game if we hadn't made any changes. 

 

Man City played a couple of kids at centre-back this week and eased through to the next round. They do take the competition seriously - it gives them a great opportunity to field kids and fringe players alongside a couple of players who are among the best in the world and the options they have are such that they are confident of progressing no matter who the field and who they play against.

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 hour ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said:

 

Am no Man Utd fan but this is a bit unfair on Ferguson and the club because at the time the FA were plotting a World Cup bid and England could not be seen to be disrespecting a FIFA competition for League Champions which took place in S America at the same time as the third round. I don’t deny that diminishing the oldest cup competition in the world in order to compete in summat that has never happened since was a consequence of what they did but it wasn’t their idea.... it was the Sweet FA.

 

They could have said... No

[Guest LittleG]

5 hours ago, LittleG said:

Left back, powerful box to box midfielder and a couple of strikers with pace.  We might then have a shot at the playoffs.

Fecking Alzheimer's, posted this in wrong thread!

[Guest Theboylangers]

3 hours ago, Stoop said:

Me too

 

If someone offered me promotion or the FA cup this season, it’d be the FA cup every time 

 

Sorry but I'd take promotion. Mainly because of what we've been discussing in here, the money. 

 

And do you know what?

 

It makes me annoyed with myself because that isn't how it should be. 

[Beighton Owl 87]

I wonder if Wigan and Birmingham fans would swap their Cup wins for survival as neither have been back in the top flight since and don't look like returning any time soon. 

[Harrysgame]

2 hours ago, OWL1969 said:

That's the thing though, back in the 80s if you lost a League game you had another one coming up next week so it didn't matter that much.

BUT losing  a Cup match  (more accurately a FA Cup match) was the end of the dream.

Those 2 Semi Final defeats still hurt to this day, much more than any League match I can recall or any future one ever will. (and thats not to mention the 93 Final).

 

The difference to nowadays saddens me, the Cups just seem to be diversion in the season and defeat in them (especially the Lc) just doesn't seem to matter.

Oh for the days of 5 matches against the Mighty Arsenal for a sleeping giant 3rd division club or the 4 matches against Everton before getting hammered at home.

Or the midweek replays under the lights against Burnley or West Ham played out infront of huge passionate, desperate to win crowds,

 

Thing is, its these Cup memories  (that generally ended in heartbreak) that I will remember in my later years rather than the League games (often victories) against Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool etc. 

 

I feel  for the younger generation who will never have that feeling of genuine hopes and dreams, ecstacy and heartbreak that the Cup used to bring.

It was bigger than the League, sadly the FA let it die, the PL and Sky Money didn't help either, truly saddens me to see it how it is today.

Agree with all that

 The Burnley game sticks in my mind as a kid couldn't believe the atmosphere, meant we were in the semi final of the FA Cup, growing up in the 70's and being 12 at it was like a dream come true. Never thought I would ever see us in any finals. Your right though remembers those cup games like yesterday  honourable mention to the BDM though!

[myHero]

1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

I want to agree with you but there are so many issues within this debate.

I thought 8 changes were too many and would have liked to see a more settled defensive unit but can understand resting the likes of Fletcher, Bannan and Hutchinson. They can't play 50 games a season at full tilt and we appear to still have genuine hopes of a top 6 challenge.

 

Everton made 5 changes but even if they had made 8 or more they would have had a strong side compared with whatever we chose to put out. 

 

Football is a squad game now. Most sides in the top 2 divisions at least tend to have 2 players who can compete for each position in the first team. What is the point in having all these players if they aren't used in early round of the cup? When we won it we had a squad of 14 or 15 and if anyone got injured you either bought someone on a short term deal or played someone from the reserves who were generally youngs uns mixed with 1st team subs. 

Fitness levels in professional football are much higher now and you can't get away with having too many players playing who are well short of their level so bigger squads are needed.

 

I like the cups. The Arsenal game in 2015 is remembered more fondly by many than the vast majority of league games we have played since and I think that result gave us more confidence generally that season. One of our best league seasons in the past 20 years came at a time when we did take the league cup seriously and it gave us a boost.

I was disappointed with the side we put out on Tuesday but wasn't surprised by it and we could just as easily have lost the game if we hadn't made any changes. 

 

Man City played a couple of kids at centre-back this week and eased through to the next round. They do take the competition seriously - it gives them a great opportunity to field kids and fringe players alongside a couple of players who are among the best in the world and the options they have are such that they are confident of progressing no matter who the field and who they play against.

I accept changes needed to be made, but why so many? We should have played our best players, who could have physically played, with 3-4 changes at most. Hutchinson and Fletcher shouldn't have played, as they can't play twice a week. 

 

It would raise the bar for Bannan to see the quality levels required to play in the Premier League. I think the game would have suited him. I think Borner should have played CB as it was only Iorfas third game at CB. 

 

Regarding your point about the Arsenal game in 2015:

 

"One of our best league seasons in the past 20 years came at a time when we did take the league cup seriously and it gave us a boost."

 

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make, yes there maybe a short term physical impact, but the psychological impact in the longterm can be massive. After beating Arsenal in 2015 the Premier League seemed within our grasp. Now you have 20k Wednesday fans, and the players, thinking the Premier League is a different universe to where we are currently. 

 

I also thought we were far too open tactically against them, which is odd, because we kept it tight against Fulham, and then Everton rock up and we're all over the pitch, but that's partly the lack of experience in the eleven picked to play. 

[swfc4_sufc0]

12 hours ago, Bulgaria said:

Much rather win a cup than get promotion.

 

Seen us do both and I know which one gave me one of the days of my life supporting swfc.

 

 

I've seen every Wednesday promotion from Exeter 1980 onwards, except for 2012, when I was on my son's stag weekend in Barcelona (I warned him when he arranged it, but at least there was plenty of pork with us to witness our joy...) We were both at Wembley for Sheridan's 'ping' in 1991, but I'm afraid it just does not compare to promotion.

 

[upperwinngardensowl]

It’s not completely dead.

 Forest took 8000 to Arsenal the other night, Grimsby 5000 to Chelsea, Rochdale 6000 to Man U, us thousands to Chelsea on a Sunday night. 

My son did say however after seeing the changes we made the other night that he would think twice in the future about going because if the club doesn’t take it seriously then why should he.