mark.flem Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 9 hours ago, Andrew Robinson said: My letter. Mr. John Mothersole, Chief Executive, Sheffield City Council, Town Hall, Pinstone Street, Sheffield S1 2HH Dear Mr Mothersole, Sheffield Wednesday Football Club I am writing to complain in the strongest terms about the restrictions which have recently been imposed at Hillsborough, allegedly in the name of safety, and your recent critical comments about Sheffield Wednesday. I believe that the measures are completely unnecessary but, much more important, are now seriously increasing the safety risks at the football ground. I understand that the prohibitions are as a result of the report from Manchester Metropolitan University dated 30th May 2019 and I have studied this report. I would like to make the following points:- 1 1 I do not accept that there is any direct relationship between the actions being taken now and the tragic disaster of 1989. 1989 was about entrance to the stadium and correct spreading of spectators in a safe way. The current issue appears to be about leaving the stadium. With the results of the Taylor report fully implemented, Hillsborough has seats all around the ground, no fences restricting emergency egress to the pitch or between areas of the ground and has an increased number of turnstiles at Leppings Lane where the concourse was enlarged by moving the wall with the turnstiles closer to the ground. So entering the ground should have been dealt with. Indeed, since the tragedy, Hillsborough has been selected to host an FA Cup Semi-final (5/4/1992), an FA Cup Semi-final replay (2/4/1997), a League Cup Final Replay (16/4/1997), the Euro ’96 finals and Premier League games for 9 years. Crowds have often been in the upper 30 thousands and on occasion, over 40,000. To my knowledge, there have not been any serious safety breaches in that period. I do appreciate that, following such a tragedy, authorities will wish to be extremely careful that safety is paramount at the club but to impose such draconian and questionable measures so suddenly when nothing else has changed seems to be completely unjustifiable. 2 2 I have been attending football matches as Hillsborough since 1955 and from 1961, when the North Stand was built, our family has held season tickets in the North Stand. I have always entered and left the ground via Leppings Lane and have never experienced any “egress” issues other than recently (see points below). 3 3 Dealing with the behaviour of small sections of a crowd who seem to be disruptive is a related but separate topic. It is quite noticeable that, in recent years, the police have become more and more aggressive towards spectators attending football matches, in some cases almost challenging people going to the game which has made me, now in my 70s, feel increasingly uncomfortable. Around 5 years ago, after the game had finished, they also started putting a human barrier of police across the entrance to the Leppings Lane concourse and again further up Leppings Lane, dramatically reducing the flow of spectators as they leave the ground and thereby creating an egress issue. This adversarial approach has not helped the police to have the respect of the vast majority of the spectators and has actually made egress from matches much more difficult. Football always attracts some fighting between a small minority and the police need to deal with this but, just like in 1989, the adopted approach seems that dealing with trouble makers is still the main focus of the policing. I have to assume that the changes and the approach of police officers is part of a management strategy and not determined by individual officers. 4 4 I was at the football match against Sheffield United on 4/3/2019 and entered and left the ground via Leppings Lane. Even on entering the ground, the police were in their most antagonistic mood ever and it was not pleasant. When we came out of the ground, the police almost blocked our way out. Some minor fighting started and the police appeared to over-react so rather than containing the situation it made it much worse. I made a hasty exit as the police were behaving like commandoes. The issue that day was not about how many people the concourse could hold or how quickly the crowd could disperse. It is whether the tactics of the police deliberately to restrict the size of the concourse and deliberately to reduce the rate spectators could leave by having rows of police restricting the exits and by the adoption of an over aggressive attitude was the correct approach or whether such policies should be changed. 5 The report by the University does not appear to be dealing with what actually happened on that day or addressing a problem which exists. The management of the crowd after the match was the subject of complaints from both football clubs and from supporter groups from both clubs. It would appear that the primary objective of the report is to prove that the fault lies entirely with the design of Hillsborough stadium and not with the police. In my opinion, the theory applied in the report is substantially flawed and if it were applied to all the football grounds in the Premier League and Football Championship, many grounds would be found wanting including Bramall Lane in Sheffield. The report totally ignores three critical points relevant to the theories applied:- a. In the past 3 years, a barrier has been erected in the concourse area at Leppings Lane to separate the home and away supporters. This has reduced the people capacity in the concourse. b. The police in the past 5 years or so have adopted an approach of almost barricading the exit from the concourse to Leppings Lane using officers and again have done the same towards the top of Leppings Lane close to the junction with Catch Bar Lane. This has seriously reduced the egress flow rate from the ground, in effect deliberately backing up people into the concourse area. c. The aggressive approach of police officers which is likely to be encouraging an aggressive response from sections of the crowd coming out of the stadium. 6 6 The recent decision to prevent any supporters from the home club entering or leaving the ground via Leppings Lane has the potential to create safety issues which were not previously present. The North Stand in particular was designed for entry and exit from both sides of the structure not just onto Penistone Road. As the Manchester report advises, further analysis was recommended before summary action was taken. 7 7 The effect on crowd numbers in the North Stand, a structure designed to hold 10,000 but with a current capacity of 9,255 following modifications to improve the width of gangways and provision of a disabled area is that it is now being restricted to well below the current capacity. This is to a football stand which many consider to be an absolute icon of cantilever design and the only football stand still in use to feature in Pevsner’s Buildings of England. As a user of the stand ever since it was built, I have never seen any issues with crowd safety in this stand although the decision to restrict access to one side is now creating a risk. 8 8 The application of the new prohibition order appears to be quite ridiculous when applied at recent games against Luton (20th August 2019) and QPR (31 August 2019) when the number of visiting spectators was low. At the game on 31st August, there was a crowd of 23,446 (less than 60% of the ground capacity) with no more than 700 from the visiting team. On the 20th August, a crowd of 23,353 included even less away supporters. But at both these games, nearly everyone had to leave the ground via Penistone Road after the game although the home and away supporters then mixed together as they made their various journeys home. It has also been noticeable that there have been significantly less police on duty outside the ground and I wonder if cost saving is what is actually driving the new policy? I believe the decisions taken based on the report are seriously flawed and should be immediately re-considered. As pointed out above, the report misses key policies adopted by the police which have seriously affected the used of the Leppings Lane concourse area and egress rates. As also pointed out above, if the theory used in the report were to be applied to all football clubs in the same way as Sheffield Wednesday, then major changes to their use would have to be made including Bramall Lane. And yet this theory is only being applied to one club. I would suggest that the following ideas are discussed in detail:- A A That the current restrictions are abandoned except for matches where the away supporters are expected to exceed a certain number. Applying a permanent restriction to the number of away supporters may be part of the discussion. B B That matches with large crowds and large numbers of away supporters are not played in the hours of darkness. That these “major” matches and “derbies” are ideally played early in the day, either at 3.00 or potentially earlier and that consideration is given to the restriction of alcohol sales in the local area. C C That the police abandon their policy of blocking the roads with officers thereby accelerating the movement of the crowd and the egress rates from the stadium. C D That the police adopt a much more community approach to the vast majority of spectators at football matches while at the same time identifying and dealing with the small known groups of trouble makers. E E That the authorities and SAG work closely together to find better ways of managing the stadium and safety rather than what currently appears to be an extremely adversarial atmosphere between the club the City Council and the Sag. On a final point, I find it a huge disappointment that the City of Sheffield does not celebrate the unique role of the City in the history of world football. We have the oldest club in the world (Sheffield FC), the second oldest club (Hallam FC), the oldest ground in the world (Sandygate), the oldest league ground in the world (Bramall Lane) and the 4th oldest club in the Football League(Sheffield Wednesday). AND Sheffield was the home for the first set of standard written rules for the game. We should have a national football museum and aim to become a destination for tourists from across the world. And issues between clubs and authorities in Sheffield should not be played out in the public eye and media. As the world City of Football, this should all be sorted out without the public or supporters knowing about it. I welcome your comments. Yours Sincerely, Copies to:- Julie Dore – Leader of Sheffield Council Dejphon Chansiri – Chairman Sheffield Wednesday Stephen Watson – Chief Constable South Yorkshire Police Clive Betts MP Angela Smith MP Dr. Alan Billings – South Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner Superb letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield1973 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Andrew, a typically thorough and well argued letter, which sadly will probably never be read nor replied to. Even if it is I'd hazard a guess that the reply you receive will contain nothing approaching a recognition that John Mothersole has made any errors on this at any point. Just read his respective comments about Wednesday and Hillsborough, and compare them to various comments made about "the Others". Completely biased and unapologetically jaundiced. I hope I'm wrong, but asking this gent to reflect on his decisions and acknowledge a mistake...........asking SYP to do the same.........looking to the Council Leader to make a positive contribution...?? About as much chance as queuing up at The White Bear these days and being served. Still, good luck Robbo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ian Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Here my letter Mr. John Mothersole, Chief Executive, Sheffield City Council, Town Hall, Pinstone Street, Sheffield S1 2HH Dear Mr Mothersole, Arsehole Yours sincerely Ian Edited September 3, 2019 by Ian 1 1 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield1973 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Sorry Robbo, your letter just got trumped by Ian's pithy belter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aingarth Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 And it will probably get the same response. You can only try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aingarth Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, Sheffield1973 said: Andrew, a typically thorough and well argued letter, which sadly will probably never be read nor replied to. Even if it is I'd hazard a guess that the reply you receive will contain nothing approaching a recognition that John Mothersole has made any errors on this at any point. Just read his respective comments about Wednesday and Hillsborough, and compare them to various comments made about "the Others". Completely biased and unapologetically jaundiced. I hope I'm wrong, but asking this gent to reflect on his decisions and acknowledge a mistake...........asking SYP to do the same.........looking to the Council Leader to make a positive contribution...?? About as much chance as queuing up at The White Bear these days and being served. Still, good luck Robbo! Which WHCC guy are you in real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield1973 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I merely saunter up the road to the bar, having never swung a bat in anger, Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aingarth Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sheffield1973 said: I merely saunter up the road to the bar, having never swung a bat in anger, Sir! Hi David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield1973 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Damn, cover blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, sw1867 said: Another great letter. Well done @upperwinngardensowl Thanks for making your point without quoting it.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWLERTON GHOST Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 MOTHERSHOLE Jesus Christ !!!!! I'm sorry but if that was me I'd be straight off to Somerset House n get that swapped for something like John Connery John Stallone John Eastwood John Newman Or even Jilted John's better than Mothershole .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Yesterday I was talking to my mother in law about problems we are having with cars parking and blocking junctions.. She was clerk to a council for nearly 30 years so I reckon she knows what she is on about. Her advice was to do exactly what others have done in their letters by writing to everybody you can think of expressing concerns. I will have to check with her but it was her who told me that if you write to a person in authority they are obliged to answer the concerns raised especially in the case of upperwinngardens owl who has requested that he comments on the points raised. Also if anything did happen (hopefully not) these concerns could be shown as being brought to the attention of the people named in the letters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cognacbarnowl Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ian said: Here my letter Mr. John Mothersole, Chief Executive, Sheffield City Council, Town Hall, Pinstone Street, Sheffield S1 2HH Dear Mr Mothersole, Arsehole Yours sincerely Ian I just cannot resist this one, FFS to, Ian, Regular poster on Owlstalk. Dear Mr. Ian, Arsehole. Yours Since celery Atdhe. FFS Edited September 3, 2019 by cognacbarnowl Eh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe P. Coltrane Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said: MOTHERSHOLE Jesus Christ !!!!! I'm sorry but if that was me I'd be straight off to Somerset House n get that swapped for something like John Connery John Stallone John Eastwood John Newman Or even Jilted John's better than Mothershole .. We all come from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBQ24 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 02/09/2019 at 18:32, Hirstys Salopettes said: I think Bash makes a pertinent point re measures limited to high risk fixture. As for I don’t think it’s an issue limited to our club. Heres a nice video for you and your son to watch of a visit to family friendly SUFC on derby day. Watching that video it makes me feel sorry for the police on duty that night. Their bosses seem to have sent them in to battle woefully under staffed and unprepared. I even spotted myself in the video shortly before we had fireworks thrown at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkfieldowl14 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 02/09/2019 at 19:10, S36 OWL said: They are totally incompetent and not fit for purpose. All the more reason why the SYP should be completely disbanded and replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkfieldowl14 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 22 hours ago, upperwinngardensowl said: Here my contribution thats been sent off this lunchtime. (much of which well and truly ripped off from others) Mr. John Mothersole, Chief Executive, Sheffield City Council, Town Hall, Pinstone Street, Sheffield S1 2HH Dear Mr Mothersole, Closure of Leppings lane Like many others I am writing to comment upon the draconian restrictions which have recently been imposed at Hillsborough, allegedly in the name of safety, and your recent outspoken and critical comments about Sheffield Wednesday. I believe that the measures are unnecessary and disproportionate but are now directly increasing the safety risks in and around the football ground. I understand that the prohibitions are as a result of one isolated report commissioned from MMU. I have had contact with Dr Billings on this issue to register my concerns, who has pointed out that the decisions are driven by SYP and the Council and not within his direct remit. Nevertheless I am particularly interested in what has changed in the council and police position since the match commander of the very fixture that triggered this overreaction posted the following on the SYP website the night of the event. Match commander thanks Sheffield fans after Derby Date published: 04 March 2019 23:21 Dated: 04 March 2019 23:20:07 Following tonight’s highly anticipated Steel City Derby at Hillsborough Stadium, the match commander has thanked fans for their co-operation and support throughout the police operation. Chief Superintendent Morley said: “Tonight saw the city come together to cheer on their teams and overall the behaviour from fans was positive and there was an exciting atmosphere for everybody to enjoy. “During the course of the operation there was some minor disorder that resulted in the arrest of six individuals. This reduced level of conflict is testament to the attitudes and behaviour of both sets of supporters and the positive work by everybody involved. “Thank you to our officers and our colleagues from other forces for their efforts, professionalism and effectiveness in keeping the public safe, under difficult circumstances. “We hope your journey home was safe and that everybody enjoyed the match.” To support your, and your partners subsequent actions, the match commander was either completely wrong, or purposely putting out a misleading statement. The alternative is that he was correct, telling the truth, and a major issue has been acted upon, where it did not exist. I have been a Season Ticket holder for the kop for the last 48 consecutive years since I was a boy walking down from Parson Cross and for the last 10 years have approached from Middlewood (where the Tram stops are) and entered the ground by walking past Leppings lane. The latest changes do not directly affect me as much as others but I have witnessed countless scenes before and after games in that area to make me more qualified than someone who has been fed, what can only be, selective information. The reputation of SYP, SAG and the council has been chipped away relentlessly by never ending restrictions on a stadium that, in its current form, has hosted crowds close to its 39,000 capacity on many occasions without incident. People marvel at the gaps insisted upon between home and away fans that are simply not witnessed at any other ground in the country, including the incendiary Glasgow Rangers v Celtic fixture. Whole areas are prohibited, affecting revenue, atmosphere and creating frustration and anger on “sell out” occasions. We do not see any of these restrictions in place down the road at Bramall Lane. That is a stadium where there have been innumerable incidents between home and away fans over recent years and where segregation immediately outside the ground is non-existent. We have a situation where a Labour controlled council, is targeting predominantly working class citizens without recourse to any logic. Would this happen in Liverpool, or Manchester, or Newcastle? Not a chance. The latest decision, to deny access, for that is what it is, for home fans via Leppings Lane is another nail in the coffin for relations between the clubs fans and “the authorities”. To do this when home games are against Luton and QPR where there are barely any away fans heaps more ridicule on the decision. Anyone, absolutely anyone, could see what the effect of the Leppings Lane restrictions would be. If 50% of the fans in The North stand went out via Leppings Lane then there was only one other place they could go….Penistone Rd. It appears to have slipped everyone connected to this decisions mind that this is a major dual carriageway and that the pavement is about 3 yards deep. 3 weeks later a sticking plaster is applied to close off the road causing disruption and anger to many local residents. Remember this safety issue only existed because of the action by SAG/SYP. I hesitate to mention the following, as history shows that the reaction to a safety issue SAG/SYP has itself generated is to impose another restriction. Now we have the entirely predictable situation where fans from the North stand are having to walk round and underneath the South stand, in order to cross the bridge onto Parkside Rd then towards Leppings lane. This is on top of the existing traffic from the Kop and against the flow of fans from the South stand heading towards Penistone road therefore causing more congestion than previously existed and potential safety issues. In addition, everyone in the South stand is now funnelled onto the bridge or towards Penistone road, as they cannot exit via Leppings lane. Additionally, and I assume perceived hooliganism was the catalyst behind the whole debacle, you have a situation where everyone walking up Parkside road after a match can for the first time ever, be 100% certain that anyone walking towards them is an away fan. For some, this might be a trigger for confrontation that previously could not exist. If you and your partners fail to reconsider the facts and apply some common sense and work WITH the club and its fans rather than against them, then I can only assume that exactly the same restrictions will be put in place IMMEDIATELY at Bramall Lane. If they are not, then we have to question the motivation behind these decisions. Two wrongs do not make a right but at least we would have uniformity. I welcome your comments. CC Stephen Watson – Chief Constable SYP Clive Betts MP Angela Smith MP (no point contacting Jared O’Mara) Dr. Alan Billings – South Yorks Police and Crime Commissioner Julie Dore – Leader of Sheffield Council Excellent well thought out letter there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Mr arseholes has prorogued Hillsborough..very unconstitutional. Need gina foookin miller to wave some legal papers about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aingarth Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 03/09/2019 at 16:20, upperwinngardensowl said: Here my contribution thats been sent off this lunchtime. (much of which well and truly ripped off from others) Excellent letter. Nothing has come of mine so far, not even an acknowledgement, but not a surprise. The more letters we all send, the better so please Owlstalk members, get writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 @nevthelodgemoorowl @Andrew Robinson @upperwinngardensowl All. Good stuff guys. Maybe however you are going down the wrong route. If you write a complaint to Sheffield Cc about what Motherarsole and SAG have done, they have to respond AND investigate to all points accordingly. If not the can be referred to the ombusdsman. https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/your-city-council/make-complaint-council-service They ought to be concentrating on the apprently catastrophic and dangerous shambles they've made taking over the DLO from Kier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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