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Clive Betts responds in SAG / SCC. Write to your Councillor or MP


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Clive Betts' letter is at times barely literate and quickly descends into whatabouttery when making comparisons to our neighbour's ground. We need to focus on the movement and segregation of supporters in our ground, not those down at the Lane.

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I wrote a 4 page letter today to John Mothersole and copied to Julie Dore, Dejphon Chansiri, Alan Billings, Stephen Watson, Angela Smith and Clive Betts. 

Similar to Clive Betts letter but with more detail. Let’s see if there is any useful reply. 

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5 minutes ago, sten said:

Clive Betts' letter is at times barely literate and quickly descends into whatabouttery when making comparisons to our neighbour's ground. We need to focus on the movement and segregation of supporters in our ground, not those down at the Lane.

 

I disagree.. the point he’s making is not “whatabouttery” when he’s pointing out contrasting behaviour of said individuals and organisations, also the lack of personal response to 3 emails versus the action taken over our club.

 

Now considering solutions at our place, that’s not CB role here .. that’s the club and the organisations - however CB as pointed out a disparity in treatment in accepting our club’s response versus that of our Neighbours.

 

Agree re the grammar.

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What kind of MP sends 3 emails to a local council, doesn’t get a reply and then sends another one......Christ, just turn up at his office door and rip someone a new one.....make sure they know they are on a very sticky wicket and unlikely to have a job for very long if they don’t get their finger out

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1 hour ago, Mycroft said:

 

You should have experienced the pure hatred and violence when we had a few thousand of our fans on the shoreham kop back in the early 80's, made nowadays trouble seem like a picnic.  

Violence yes. It was far more brutal and random I agree and I felt in fear of my life at some away days in the 70s and 80s. But everyone went to work together next day after a derby. Now everyone is continually winding each other up without the consequences. 

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4 hours ago, bash said:

I've been following this with interest since the SAG/SYP began this scheme.

 

For the last two seasons I've been at both the derby games at the away end, and attended both games with my young son, and I've attended several derby games on the away end over the last 30 years.

 

It wasn't up until the bouncing day massacre (well as a Blade I've got call it that) that there was a change to the policing arrangements, both sets of fans we're let out at the same time, and it was a case of covering up colours, keeping my head down until I got away from the ground. 

 

Last season we held back In our seats for 10 minutes before leaving as the season before we held in a crush and almost caught up in a crush on the steps leading down from the Leppings Lane, so when we did leave we was let straight out of the ground in the concourse outside where was effectively kettled, and was caught up with having coins and other stuff thrown at us, and then having the crowd pushed back towards us which could have seen me and my lad pinned back against the turnstiles on the Leppings Lane. When we did eventually get allowed leave we walked back up to Foxhill where I parked the car, and when we walked past the New Bridge Inn at Wadsley Bridge I even had a group of teenagers ask me if we was Wednesday or United, I was by myself with a 9 year old child for fizz sake.

 

I know Hillsborough fairly well, and the biggest part of the problem is there is only really two ways to exit the ground, either on to Leppings Lane or Penistone Road, which will always create a flashpoint and ugly scenes at the Leppings Lane end, especially if there is a big travelling crowd or it is a local derby where passions run high. The difference between Bramall Lane and Hillsborough is that there are several ways to exit Bramall Lane and for big games the away crowd is funnelled out of Bramall Lane by steel barriers which seems to be a lot safer way of doing things. Prehaps part of the solution is to redesign the back of the South Stand at Hillsborough so the home fans can exit the stadium over the bridge on to Parkside Road and then you could funnel the North Stand down Leppings Lane towards Law Brothers and the away fans up to the Tram Stop? Prehaps the solution is to only have these measures in place for when it is a high risk fixture rather than doing it all the time when the risk is far, far less. 

 

The problem seems to have got a lot worse over the last few years as the rivalry seems to spill over to raw hatred a lot more. My girlfriend of a few years and her two children are all Wednesdayites and season ticket holders on the kop, I've got plenty of friends who are Wednesdayites, I love the banter that flies about, the gentle stick we give each other. However on the flip side a visit to Hillsborough seems to be more like running the gauntlet of Stone Island clad grown up children with cocaine inspired ADHD. As much as I love the banter I've absolutely began to despise the hatred that people are quick to show. The horrendous, and continued abuse our managers daughter has had to endure over the last two years, the unwarranted and uncalled for crass attempt to label Dean Henderson as a paedophile last season on social media and the subsequent abuse he received after. I can't ever remember football becoming this bad for a long long time. Its not just a Sheffield thing either, travelling home on Saturday night when the media should have been talking about a great game of football, the narrative changed when it transpired that some oxygen stealing twats had racially abused Kurt Zouma. 

 

Last season I vowed not to take my son to a derby match at Hillsborough until he is much older, so who wins? It certainly isn't me who now doesn't feel safe coming out of Leppings Lane with a child who loves his football team more than life itself. 

 

What I'm trying to say here might not be on the same song sheet as many on here, but it worthwhile to give the viewpoint of someone who occasionally visits Hillsborough as an away fan to give an different viewpoint on the problems you have at Hillsborough when it comes to crowd safety.

Fvuckoff Pig

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4 hours ago, bash said:

I've been following this with interest since the SAG/SYP began this scheme.

 

For the last two seasons I've been at both the derby games at the away end, and attended both games with my young son, and I've attended several derby games on the away end over the last 30 years.

 

It wasn't up until the bouncing day massacre (well as a Blade I've got call it that) that there was a change to the policing arrangements, both sets of fans we're let out at the same time, and it was a case of covering up colours, keeping my head down until I got away from the ground. 

 

Last season we held back In our seats for 10 minutes before leaving as the season before we held in a crush and almost caught up in a crush on the steps leading down from the Leppings Lane, so when we did leave we was let straight out of the ground in the concourse outside where was effectively kettled, and was caught up with having coins and other stuff thrown at us, and then having the crowd pushed back towards us which could have seen me and my lad pinned back against the turnstiles on the Leppings Lane. When we did eventually get allowed leave we walked back up to Foxhill where I parked the car, and when we walked past the New Bridge Inn at Wadsley Bridge I even had a group of teenagers ask me if we was Wednesday or United, I was by myself with a 9 year old child for fizz sake.

 

I know Hillsborough fairly well, and the biggest part of the problem is there is only really two ways to exit the ground, either on to Leppings Lane or Penistone Road, which will always create a flashpoint and ugly scenes at the Leppings Lane end, especially if there is a big travelling crowd or it is a local derby where passions run high. The difference between Bramall Lane and Hillsborough is that there are several ways to exit Bramall Lane and for big games the away crowd is funnelled out of Bramall Lane by steel barriers which seems to be a lot safer way of doing things. Prehaps part of the solution is to redesign the back of the South Stand at Hillsborough so the home fans can exit the stadium over the bridge on to Parkside Road and then you could funnel the North Stand down Leppings Lane towards Law Brothers and the away fans up to the Tram Stop? Prehaps the solution is to only have these measures in place for when it is a high risk fixture rather than doing it all the time when the risk is far, far less. 

 

The problem seems to have got a lot worse over the last few years as the rivalry seems to spill over to raw hatred a lot more. My girlfriend of a few years and her two children are all Wednesdayites and season ticket holders on the kop, I've got plenty of friends who are Wednesdayites, I love the banter that flies about, the gentle stick we give each other. However on the flip side a visit to Hillsborough seems to be more like running the gauntlet of Stone Island clad grown up children with cocaine inspired ADHD. As much as I love the banter I've absolutely began to despise the hatred that people are quick to show. The horrendous, and continued abuse our managers daughter has had to endure over the last two years, the unwarranted and uncalled for crass attempt to label Dean Henderson as a paedophile last season on social media and the subsequent abuse he received after. I can't ever remember football becoming this bad for a long long time. Its not just a Sheffield thing either, travelling home on Saturday night when the media should have been talking about a great game of football, the narrative changed when it transpired that some oxygen stealing twats had racially abused Kurt Zouma. 

 

Last season I vowed not to take my son to a derby match at Hillsborough until he is much older, so who wins? It certainly isn't me who now doesn't feel safe coming out of Leppings Lane with a child who loves his football team more than life itself. 

 

What I'm trying to say here might not be on the same song sheet as many on here, but it worthwhile to give the viewpoint of someone who occasionally visits Hillsborough as an away fan to give an different viewpoint on the problems you have at Hillsborough when it comes to crowd safety.

 

I've attended games all over the UK and a few in Europe, I've only ever felt unsafe at two grounds, Plymouth Argyles Home Park and Bramall Lane, after the 2-2 derby game in L1 when you'd surrendered a two goal lead late on the mood turned ugly, on leaving the ground there were many confrontations where both sets of fans meet at the junction of Bramall Lane and John St, I crossed St Mary's gate onto Eyre St only to be met by knuckle draggers throwing air bombs into crowds of people before being charged by mounted police. After the 0-0 derby a couple of years ago I left the match alone (friends had travelled seperately) after being held in the ground for 10mins, the usual empty heads were waiting around outside a squaring up to me, a slight 50 something who wouldn't harm a fly walking alone.

 

A good attempt to besmirch our club but don't pretend a minority your own fans are anything but vile.

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17 minutes ago, toppOwl said:

 

I've attended games all over the UK and a few in Europe, I've only ever felt unsafe at two grounds, Plymouth Argyles Home Park and Bramall Lane, after the 2-2 derby game in L1 when you'd surrendered a two goal lead late on the mood turned ugly, on leaving the ground there were many confrontations where both sets of fans meet at the junction of Bramall Lane and John St, I crossed St Mary's gate onto Eyre St only to be met by knuckle draggers throwing air bombs into crowds of people before being charged by mounted police. After the 0-0 derby a couple of years ago I left the match alone (friends had travelled seperately) after being held in the ground for 10mins, the usual empty heads were waiting around outside a squaring up to me, a slight 50 something who wouldn't harm a fly walking alone.

 

A good attempt to besmirch our club but don't pretend a minority your own fans are anything but vile.

Well said pal. Couldn’t agree more, they sicken me.

 

Still don’t understand why the mods on here don’t delete every one of the sad fuvckers profiles that are on this site.

Edited by Steelman
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Have to agree, Bramall Lane is by far the most hostile and uneasy feeling I've experienced. You can literally feel the bitter hatred. Even the stadium announcer is hostile!!! 

 

I sit on the West at Hillsborough & its nothing like coming out of United's away end for our visitors, that I am certain of.

 

You'd never get a 50 odd year old Norwich fan assaulted outside Hillsborough, or a middle aged shirt wearing Bristol City fan. 

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Agree its always been rather tasty leaving Bramall Lane so any comments from Utd fans on the atmosphere outside Hillsborough are a little short sighted..

 

One time I went with my Dad back in the day (I'd have been about 15 and eight stone soaking wet) and walking back towards town had a group of 30-40 year olds following us and giving it large. We realised as we were walking that we were the wrong side of the barrier at the side of the road so doubled back on ourselves. I swear all five or so of them flinched like they'd been tasered and scattered. Which is just as well as no matter how cat they were each of them would have still battered us one on one if they were that way inclined.

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8 hours ago, sten said:

Clive Betts' letter is at times barely literate and quickly descends into whatabouttery when making comparisons to our neighbour's ground. We need to focus on the movement and segregation of supporters in our ground, not those down at the Lane.

No whataboutery at all. He is pointing out that excessive restrictions have been placed in games at Hillsborough while similar issues at Bramall Lane are seemingly acceptable. Why have Wednesday had a prohibition notice placed on them and United haven't?

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