Are the players doing as they're told?

[Jeffjohnsonmyhero]

If a Manager comes in and the players wont play for him ,Get rid of the players involved ,Its a football club not an holiday camp.

[sonofbert2]

It is pretty clear he had the 4-4-2 plan well ahead of the weekend given his comments re. FF´s inclusión following the cup game and based on his interview following Saturday´s game.  He pointed to both not converting chances created in previous games (apparently we were top of the league for goal scoring opportunities) and the way QPR set up as justification for the change in formation before taking full responsibility for the decision.

 

However, he did point out that the formation/tactics relied upon us moving the ball quickly down the flanks and the involvement of the fullbacks in doing so being vital.  He also despaired at the overall lack of energy and momentum and obviously felt very let down by the players as a whole for turning a decent, promotion aspiring start to the season (pointswise) into a bang average start to the season with a very poor performance leading into the international break.

 

He isn’t the first of our recent managers to experience that feeling from this group of players who collectively have a recurring attitude problem.

[sonofbert2]

7 minutes ago, Jeffjohnsonmyhero said:

If a Manager comes in and the players wont play for him ,Get rid of the players involved ,Its a football club not an holiday camp.

 

I agree totally - we seem to have a small but very “powerful” group of untouchables both in their minds and in the minds of some supporters.

[dorian gray]

11 minutes ago, Owl999 said:

Don’t think they would play for Danny Crowley either 

possibly so.

yet many of the 'old guard' will be of little use to us in 18 months time, thus that would give someone the likes of cowley room to rebuild, HOWEVER...

i'm not sure dc wants to install a new young manager, and give him the time to rebuild, as that would be costly in time and money and perhaps a couple of years before we could challenge if at all.

he may well see 'a time proven championship' manager as the way to go, hopefully able to do for dc what gray did for mm, and instead of bulleting 'his time proven championship' manager the way gray was dealt with, then keeping him on to put the final pieces to the jigsaw this time around.

[dorian gray]

1 hour ago, Hack-Abusi said:

Howard Wilkinson	England	24 June 1983	10 October 1988	255	114	73	68	44.71
Peter Eustace	England	28 October 1988	14 February 1989	18	2	9	7	11.11
Ron Atkinson	England	14 February 1989	6 June 1991	118	49	34	35	41.53
Trevor Francis	England	7 June 1991	20 May 1995	214	88	58	68	41.12
David Pleat	England	14 June 1995	3 November 1997	102	32	40	30	31.37
Ron Atkinson	England	14 November 1997	17 May 1998	27	9	11	7	33.33
Danny Wilson	Northern Ireland	6 July 1998	21 March 2000	80	23	40	17	28.75
Paul Jewell	England	21 June 2000	12 February 2001	38	12	21	5	31.58
Peter Shreeves	England	12 February 2001	17 October 2001	31	11	11	9	35.48
Terry Yorath	Wales	17 October 2001	31 October 2002	56	16	25	15	28.57
Chris Turner	England	7 November 2002	19 September 2004	96	29	36	31	30.21
Paul Sturrock	Scotland	23 September 2004	19 October 2006	104	35	40	29	33.65
Brian Laws	England	6 November 2006	13 December 2009	154	52	60	42	33.77
Alan Irvine	Scotland	8 January 2010	3 February 2011	59	24	22	13	40.68
Gary Megson	England	4 February 2011	29 February 2012	62	28	22	12	45.16
Dave Jones	England	1 March 2012	1 December 2013	81	29	30	22	35.80
Stuart Gray	England	1 December 2013	11 June 2015	68	26	19	23	38.24
Carlos Carvalhal	Portugal	30 June 2015	24 December 2017	131	56	38	37	42.75
Jos Luhukay	Netherlands	5 January 2018	21 December 2018	48	16	13	19	33.33
Steve Bruce	England	1 February 2019	17 July 2019	18	7	8	3	38.89

 

Lee Bullens win rate is 41% over 3 spells .early days I know ..

 

I think it possibly goes to show how much fan expectation is that we should be winning shed loads of games instead of losing or drawing ... maybe we expect too much

 

Alan Irvine at 40% as well .. blimey!

so it's megson, wilko and if they don't want it, back to coco.

[Rev Owl]

Listening to the Radio Sheffield post match interview on Saturday it was very clear that Bullen felt the players hadn't followed the plan neither had they given 100% effort.

It was clear watching Bullen's reaction during the game that they weren't listening much to him during the game either.

KW chief culprit among them in not releasing ball quickly.

Also a fair amount of disagreement or confusion between defenders and midfield over moving the ball forward.

[Minton]

1 hour ago, sonofbert2 said:

However, he did point out that the formation/tactics relied upon us moving the ball quickly down the flanks and the involvement of the fullbacks in doing so being vital. 

 

Picking Fox and Palmer was a mistake then. Palmer in particular has the attacking qualities of a lukewarm pukka pie. 

[Sonny]

If players aren’t doing what the manager tells them to then it’s probably a sign that the manager isn’t very good at getting the desired results.

 

It then doesn’t mean that you need to get in Brian Glover from Kes. You just need someone who is better at managing.

[Errol Flashman]

8 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

Picking Fox and Palmer was a mistake then. Palmer in particular has the attacking qualities of a lukewarm pukka pie. 

 

We can argue the throw about player selection. 

Means nowt if they don't give the ball to em.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Rev Owl said:

.

Also a fair amount of disagreement or confusion between defenders and midfield over moving the ball forward.

 

That's what I meant in my first post. It was one example but there were loads of times in the first half where we're squabbles going off. 

[Errol Flashman]

5 minutes ago, Sonny said:

If players aren’t doing what the manager tells them to then it’s probably a sign that the manager isn’t very good at getting the desired results.

 

 

Or players that think they know better.

[cookeh]

14 minutes ago, Rev Owl said:

Also a fair amount of disagreement or confusion between defenders and midfield over moving the ball forward.

 

To me that's something you see when a manager hasn't got a proper hold of the team.

You can blame the players.. but ultimately it's the managers job to enforce his vision and his plans on the team.

If he can't do that for whatever reason he has to be replaced.

 

I've no pleasure saying that as Bully is a good guy, but we're on the slide and we need a proper manager in place.

[Sonny]

1 minute ago, DEH9 said:

 

Or players that think they know better.

 

Same deal then really. We definitely need a manager who knows better than the players.

[English Man]

Maybe Westwood is a bit of a wee wee tail (not saying he is but maybe) Before you all slate me......

 

If you don't carry out your Managers orders and think you're bigger then that is a sackable offence in a normal job but let's face it football isnt normal. Still... 

 

I have heard lots about Westwood not willing to train properly, not helping the youth keepers, I guess now not following orders. At the end of the day he is/was a class keeper but I think you have to draw the line somewhere if someone thinks they have more power than the boss. That's when things fall apart. 

 

Someone has to lead and everyone who are not the manager has to follow the managers rules. If they don't the whole philosophy falls apart. If someone thinks they are better than that philosophy it comes at a cost to team performance and results. 

 

Just going by what I hear on here BTW. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by English Man

[Rogers]

4 hours ago, Tommycraign10others said:

I think your point about Westwood is a valid one and you could see Bruce getting exasperated by it in his time at Hillsborough.  It makes you think maybe Jos tried to  sort this issue out but was beaten by the players remains at the club. Seems to me a strong manager is needed together with a clear out.  

Interestingly I hear Westwood is not particularly helpful to the younger keepers either. 

 

But Carlos, who is now a clown, seemed to manage these these problem players pretty well to all accounts. 

 

Where do you hear these rumours? 

 

If you’re in know with this level of detail, have you heard anything about a potential managers? 

[Guest The Claw]

SIT!

[FreshOwl]

Great post OP and it does make you wonder, if it was Bruce barking at Westwood to release the ball would he do the same thing?

[northeastowl]

Something looked quite obviously wrong on Saturday especially in that second half.

 

Bannan spent most of the game screaming at players for doing things wrong, there was one instance where he was going mental at Iorfa and Borner.  Don’t get me wrong he was captain on Saturday but you can’t go round screaming at everyone when you’re doing naff all yourself. 

 

Then you had the KW distribution issue (which happens every game btw). Players looking at each other like there was no game plan whatsoever. However when the chips started going down in the second half, rather than everyone rallying together and putting more effort in, we just completely gave up.  

 

Its something that has happened far too often since this group of players came in. Unfortunately LB has his work cut out, he is starting his managerial career and managers with a lot more experience have struggled with the same issue with these players.

 

Saturday reminded me of that 3-0 drubbing at the hands of Burton Albion under LB a few years ago. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think LB is the man for the job however the experienced players in this squad should be doing far more than they currently are and take more responsibility. I am still fuming with Bannan’s contribution on Saturday and we are 48 hours down the road. 

[Errol Flashman]

33 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

Same deal then really. We definitely need a manager who knows better than the players.

 

Mebbe he does

 

I reckon Mourinho knows more than Hazard but he still helped  get him the boot.

[Road Runner]

No they aren’t doing as they are told.

 

They didn’t towards the end of Carlos, They didn’t towards the end of Jos.

They are not for Bullen.

 

I think certain players know their place is safe and they are undroppable hence the lacklustre performances.

 

There are certain players droppable who will put a shift in but end up dropped anyway. 

 

Until a manager demands that respect and drops the undroppable then we are stuck. Bruce demanded that respect and performance suddenly changed. 

 

We we need a no nonsense manager to come in and ruffle the feathers and say if your not going to play as I’ve said or put in a shift then you can clean the boots on a Saturday. 

 

Some players think they they are bigger than the manager and it needs to stop. 

[Errol Flashman]

1 hour ago, cookeh said:

 

To me that's something you see when a manager hasn't got a proper hold of the team.

You can blame the players.. but ultimately it's the managers job to enforce his vision and his plans on the team.

If he can't do that for whatever reason he has to be replaced.

 

 

That's the thing though int it. He isn't the manager,  he's filling in, and the players know that.  I'm not saying he should get the job BTW ,I think we should get someone who's got more experience, but if he were full time I think they'd be more likely to do what they're told.