Cowleys get them in

[Guest LondonOwl313]

12 minutes ago, 83owl said:

If our first team players can’t respect the manager because the manager hasn’t earned the same amount of money they have then what does that say about them? If that’s their attitude then they are not the kind of players to get us promoted and are just big time Charlie’s only interested in themselves and their bank balances. Probably why after years of investment and tens of millions of pounds spent we are still a team of labouring wasters.

This isn’t a thing unique to Wednesday.. all football clubs will be like that for the most part. Respect is earnt through achievement.. achievement is measured by the level you’ve played or managed at, and a by product of that is money earnt.

 

These lower league guys are obviously very good at organising a team of cloggers and getting results.. but that doesn’t necessarily translate to results at our level or above. If you watch a championship game and a league 1 game there’s a massive difference in quality on the ball. Issues will come if the players are given instructions and it’s not working.. they’ll have a tendency to think ‘I’ve played at a much higher level than you, what do you know’. It’s a natural reaction

 

These guys need to get their teams up to this league and then earn their stripes 

[The Night-Owl]

13 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Can’t see Bowyer coming here when he’s at his hometown team, has lots of credit in the bank after a promotion and has a team performing well at the same level. On top of that, he’s an ex pro who’s earnt a lot of money from the game so might be less likely to be swayed by us paying higher wages than Charlton. So he’s probably out 

 

Neil similarly is at a team achieving the same as us, but might be tempted by the money given he’s had no career of note 

 

Cowley, Ainsworth and Flynn are lower league managers and have no experience of the championship. Not sure why everyone thinks they can all replicate a League 2 promotion into a championship promotion, or why they’d be any more likely to succeed at this level than the so called failures at this level. It’s just a tougher league.. would imagine most of the out of work championship managers could do a good job lower down the leagues.

 

for me, the right course for the Cowley’s to prove they deserve a chance at a club like Sheffield Wednesday is for them to get Lincoln up from League 1, then consolidate them at this level. So maybe in a couple of years they’d be worthy of consideration. Going for them now is just a massive gamble and they haven’t achieved enough in the game at a high enough level, and probably wouldn’t command the respect of the first team, who are mostly earning 20k a week, which is money that the Cowley’s can only have dreamt about. Will be a massive imbalance if they come right now and it probably won’t work 

 

Managers and players alike earn respect by their application; dedication, methods, ethos, performances and results, etc. It's a bit arrogant to disregard lower League managers. Especially when you consider the likes of Dean Smith and Chris Wilder were schooled in the lower Leagues, and currently a youth team coach and a lower League manager are sitting at the top of the division.

 

I think, if we look at the work Bruce had started, the summer recruitment and our current full back, midfield and attacking options, it suggests to me that this isn't a short term job or a promotion squad. This is a long term job on and off the pitch. We had begun moving in the right direction under Bruce and with regards the summer recruitment but we still need a lot of rebuilding. That's why, I'd personally rather see us go for a manager on the rise over here within the EFL or someone high profile from abroad. Because we still need rebuilding and need to develop an ethos and a way of playing, whilst also being smarter with player sales and recruitment. A forward thinking appointment, someone with fresh ideas and nous tactically and with wheeling and dealing, etc would be smarter long term than merely settling for an out of work has been that was decent several years ago or some out of work failure that's achieved nothing of note.

[The Night-Owl]

3 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

This isn’t a thing unique to Wednesday.. all football clubs will be like that for the most part. Respect is earnt through achievement.. achievement is measured by the level you’ve played or managed at, and a by product of that is money earnt.

 

These lower league guys are obviously very good at organising a team of cloggers and getting results.. but that doesn’t necessarily translate to results at our level or above. If you watch a championship game and a league 1 game there’s a massive difference in quality on the ball. Issues will come if the players are given instructions and it’s not working.. they’ll have a tendency to think ‘I’ve played at a much higher level than you, what do you know’. It’s a natural reaction

 

These guys need to get their teams up to this league and then earn their stripes 

 

And then they will be out of our reach, if they get results at this level like the likes of Dean Smith and Chris Wilder did by eventually getting promoted or will attract top flight or parachute clubs interest.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

5 minutes ago, The Night-Owl said:

 

Managers and players alike earn respect by their application; dedication, methods, ethos, performances and results, etc. It's a bit arrogant to disregard lower League managers. Especially when you consider the likes of Dean Smith and Chris Wilder were schooled in the lower Leagues, and currently a youth team coach and a lower League manager are sitting at the top of the division.

 

I think, if we look at the work Bruce had started, the summer recruitment and our current full back, midfield and attacking options, it suggests to me that this isn't a short term job or a promotion squad. This is a long term job on and off the pitch. We had begun moving in the right direction under Bruce and with regards the summer recruitment but we still need a lot of rebuilding. That's why, I'd personally rather see us go for a manager on the rise over here within the EFL or someone high profile from abroad. Because we still need rebuilding and need to develop an ethos and a way of playing, whilst also being smarter with player sales and recruitment. A forward thinking appointment, someone with fresh ideas and nous tactically and with wheeling and dealing, etc would be smarter long term than merely settling for an out of work has been that was decent several years ago or some out of work failure that's achieved nothing of note.

I’m not saying they’ll never make it.. just that they need to build more experience before coming to a club like this. Dean Smith earnt his stripes at Walsall, then went to a smaller club at this level in Brentford before getting his chance at Villa. Hiring these lower league managers now is like missing out the Brentford step, which I would imagine would vastly reduce the chances of a successful outcome. With Wilder, he earnt the chance to go to a bigger club like the Pigs (big for League 1 at the time) by being successful at small clubs. Then he got them up which earnt the right to have a go at this level, which was then a success. It’s not like the Pigs were a mid table Championship side hiring the Northampton manager. The examples of managers who have jumped straight from the lower leagues to a big club in our league are Jones at Stoke and Hurst at Ipswich, and both failed

 

Personally I don’t want to write this season off.. I think we have a squad capable of 4th-10th, so play offs are achievable with the right manager. Even if we went down the route of putting someone in with a long term plan, they simply won’t get the time. The crowd will turn if results don’t come, can already see it now. We’re Sheff Wed and fans expect us to be in the PL, and if we’re not, at the very least be competitive at this level. We’re also paying top dollar to watch so that increases the pressure to put in good performances

[Guest LondonOwl313]

11 minutes ago, The Night-Owl said:

 

And then they will be out of our reach, if they get results at this level like the likes of Dean Smith and Chris Wilder did by eventually getting promoted or will attract top flight or parachute clubs interest.

I don’t think they would though.. say if Cowley got Lincoln up this season, and then next season he got them finishing 16th-20th, his logical next step would be to come to a club like Wednesday 

 

Prem club hardly ever pluck out lower league managers.. Bruce has gone to one of the lower end prem clubs and they’re not happy as they see him as a championship manager. The only way they would get a chance at that level is by getting a team promoted there.

 

i think we can compete with any club in this league for size, regardless of parachute payments. We aren’t skint as we have a rich benefactor 

[OWLERTON GHOST]

2 hours ago, scram said:

I'm baffled as to why so many seem to think the cowley's come with some sort of guarantee that it will be only upwards

 

What have they achieved that say, Gareth Ainsworth hasn't?

 

And why no clamour for him?

 

Bizarre

Hes got a very nice Telecaster hollow body ....

I'm convinced just on this......

Unless the Cowleys have a pair of Rickenbacker 330's a piece

I'm going with Gareth..

 

 

[legendaryswan]

The Cowleys wouldnt be a good fit here,they like to get from back to front quickly,we dont have that type of player here,our MF are crabs,Pullis has already turned it down once for the same reason,if rumours are true

[OWLERTON GHOST]

Just now, legendaryswan said:

The Cowleys wouldnt be a good fit here,they like to get from back to front quickly,we dont have that type of player here,our MF are crabs,Pullis has already turned it down once for the same reason,if rumours are true

Time to clear the Decks then?

[The Night-Owl]

37 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I’m not saying they’ll never make it.. just that they need to build more experience before coming to a club like this. Dean Smith earnt his stripes at Walsall, then went to a smaller club at this level in Brentford before getting his chance at Villa. Hiring these lower league managers now is like missing out the Brentford step, which I would imagine would vastly reduce the chances of a successful outcome. With Wilder, he earnt the chance to go to a bigger club like the Pigs (big for League 1 at the time) by being successful at small clubs. Then he got them up which earnt the right to have a go at this level, which was then a success. It’s not like the Pigs were a mid table Championship side hiring the Northampton manager. The examples of managers who have jumped straight from the lower leagues to a big club in our league are Jones at Stoke and Hurst at Ipswich, and both failed

 

Personally I don’t want to write this season off.. I think we have a squad capable of 4th-10th, so play offs are achievable with the right manager. Even if we went down the route of putting someone in with a long term plan, they simply won’t get the time. The crowd will turn if results don’t come, can already see it now. We’re Sheff Wed and fans expect us to be in the PL, and if we’re not, at the very least be competitive at this level. We’re also paying top dollar to watch so that increases the pressure to put in good performances

 

I don't think we are a top 6 capable side to be honest. Our best players that got us into the play offs before are aging and are unreliable with injuries. If Bruce had have stayed, we'd have had a shot at top 6 against the odds but we still needed rebuilding. The summer recruitment was decent for once but we're still short of goals, midfield competition and weak at full back, etc. That's why we're a long term project, with or without Bruce or with or without a suitable replacement. We still need to rebuild and to develop a way of playing to our strengths and to stick to it. It's why I think, personally, we should consider more forward thinking long term type appointments or managers on the rise, from within the EFL or perhaps from abroad.

 

32 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I don’t think they would though.. say if Cowley got Lincoln up this season, and then next season he got them finishing 16th-20th, his logical next step would be to come to a club like Wednesday 

 

Prem club hardly ever pluck out lower league managers.. Bruce has gone to one of the lower end prem clubs and they’re not happy as they see him as a championship manager. The only way they would get a chance at that level is by getting a team promoted there.

 

i think we can compete with any club in this league for size, regardless of parachute payments. We aren’t skint as we have a rich benefactor 

 

I myself still see us as a traditional; historic, famous old big club and always will as a fan and as someone with an interest in history. But we need to be honest and realise, that the many years outside of the top flight and numerous years without genuine success and our years of financial issues and decline, etc have damaged our reputation to outsiders. More recently, we might not be as appealing as we ourselves might think, with regards to player sales; recruitment, FFP/P&S and embargoes, etc. Which might put off some proven or high profile managers and might not appeal to a younger manager on the rise making a name for themselves? 

 

That said, I personally hope we target managers on the rise over here or abroad or high profile foreign managers but being realistic I don't think that's DC's way of doing things, not sure he'd even consider those types and uncertain if we'd genuinely appeal to them to be honest. We're far more likely it seems to go for an out of work has been or out of work failure or some obscure foreign manager similar to Carlos and Jos. To persist with a short term strategy will be a reckless mistake I think, as I think we need to be smarter on and off the pitch and to start thinking long term.

Edited September 1, 2019 by The Night-Owl

[legendaryswan]

17 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

Time to clear the Decks then?

All depends on how you see the exit,a side was built to play to a certain philosophy and it worked for two seasons at least,but then different ideas came along,but wed already spaffed our load and the room for manoeuvre was and is limited for that very reason.

Can someone still get us out playing a similar way or are we so predictable with the same players,and these days its easy to predict via stats what a player will or wont do,where hel move,how hel shoot at goal the works,that we need to become unpredictable and change the dynamic.

Id say its the latter,the proof being a second home 2-1 defeat in a very similar mode of attack against a similar system by the same team.

Stats are killers and Warburton loves his stats

[BARMYARMY2010]

The clamour for third division hoof merchants......................................god bless owlstalk and all  that post in her  !!

[legendaryswan]

6 minutes ago, DELUDED OWL said:

The clamour for third division hoof merchants......................................god bless owlstalk and all  that post in her  !!

Sooner that bud then the 7 shots,2 on target we had v QPR,at least under wilko,their keeper would have had a busy day,hed have had seven shots to deal with in the first 20 minutes,thered be no fannying about in MF passing it back and sideways it was all geared to attempts at goal and lots of em,even the fullbacks could hit the target back then,lets not kid ourselves we can afford sexy football players and play like madrid,expansive stylish football.

The least we expect is 20 odd goes at goal and let the opposition know theyve had a game and the keepers played a blinder to keep us out.

[83owl]

4 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

This isn’t a thing unique to Wednesday.. all football clubs will be like that for the most part. Respect is earnt through achievement.. achievement is measured by the level you’ve played or managed at, and a by product of that is money earnt.

 

These lower league guys are obviously very good at organising a team of cloggers and getting results.. but that doesn’t necessarily translate to results at our level or above. If you watch a championship game and a league 1 game there’s a massive difference in quality on the ball. Issues will come if the players are given instructions and it’s not working.. they’ll have a tendency to think ‘I’ve played at a much higher level than you, what do you know’. It’s a natural reaction

 

These guys need to get their teams up to this league and then earn their stripes 

 

Our squad has a few international appearances for very poor teams between them and I think bannan has won promotion to the premier league. Off the top of my head I can’t think of anymore silverware any of the players have won. Point is that they are not exactly Ronaldo and Zlatan.

 

Mourinho and harry redknapp were hardly world beaters as players but have decent managerial careers through organisation and man management. If these Cowleys can get us organised, playing to a system that suits our players and playing our best players as well as being motivated then that’s 3 steps ahead of where we are at the minute.

[steelowl]

Quite a few people on here having a pop at my suggestion that the Cowleys are worth the gamble  tbf it isn't just me there are quite a few of us that think the same and that's before all the failed gambles on the usual candidates

Now that biggs has confirmed to his knowledge (50% of which from off here)  that we have contacted them  - it confirms what a poster on here said : that we'd contacted them and they were interested. 

 

It seems they may end up at Hudders as per conversation I had with Hudders fan 

 

I shudder at the thought of Pulis  he failed at last 2 jobs both with more spendable money than here I believe

 

as for @scramsuggesting ainsworth why not? Are there any others making a name in the lower leagues?  Personally I would be looking for hungry fresh talent we need to get this club fired up again with fresh ideas . I believe it's also about the coaching team they are often unsung but I think they often make a manager   Even the great Clough needed a Taylor

 

Yes experience is fantastic and with Bruce we dropped lucky and unlucky at the same time  but DC got shafted by him I suspect that's why he's taking longer than he should 

[The Night-Owl]

1 hour ago, steelowl said:

Quite a few people on here having a pop at my suggestion that the Cowleys are worth the gamble  tbf it isn't just me there are quite a few of us that think the same and that's before all the failed gambles on the usual candidates

Now that biggs has confirmed to his knowledge (50% of which from off here)  that we have contacted them  - it confirms what a poster on here said : that we'd contacted them and they were interested. 

 

It seems they may end up at Hudders as per conversation I had with Hudders fan 

 

I shudder at the thought of Pulis  he failed at last 2 jobs both with more spendable money than here I believe

 

as for @scramsuggesting ainsworth why not? Are there any others making a name in the lower leagues?  Personally I would be looking for hungry fresh talent we need to get this club fired up again with fresh ideas . I believe it's also about the coaching team they are often unsung but I think they often make a manager   Even the great Clough needed a Taylor

 

Yes experience is fantastic and with Bruce we dropped lucky and unlucky at the same time  but DC got shafted by him I suspect that's why he's taking longer than he should 

 

Agree totally about hungry fresh talent and fresh ideas. Michael Flynn is another manager on the rise making a name for himself in the lower Leagues like the Cowley's and Ainsworth are too. Someone like Alex Neil already proven at this level and still young and hungry would be another smart forward thinking appointment. I strongly believe, we need to start thinking long term and being more forward thinking to enable us to develop an identity and to rebuild and build progressively and smartly.

[Stoop]

Forget the Cowley’s, Let’s get Paul Hurst in

[steelowl]

24 minutes ago, Stoop said:

Forget the Cowley’s, Let’s get Paul Hurst in

forget Hurst get the Cowleys in before they go to Huddersfield 

[dfoster]

As I've just in another thread, I'm not generally ITK at all but I do know someone v close to Cowley. He's staying put this season. End of.

 

We asked him to come for an interview numerous times in the week or so after Bruce left but he said no as didn't want to let Lincoln down. 

 

His compo is low six figures so that is not the issue.

 

I have no other ITK info but I can assure you this is 100pc true.

 

On a different point I would not, if I were Chansiri, take a punt on a talented but untried lower league manager. For every Chris Wilder there are multiple Paul Hursts. 

 

I may be in a minority of one but I honestly think Pulis would be a solid and sensible appointment but my choice would be Rowett who I think has it in him to become a really good manager. I wonder if his relationship with USM agency may have counted against him here....

 

[steelowl]

2 minutes ago, dfoster said:

As I've just in another thread, I'm not generally ITK at all but I do know someone v close to Cowley. He's staying put this season. End of.

 

We asked him to come for an interview numerous times in the week or so after Bruce left but he said no as didn't want to let Lincoln down. 

 

His compo is low six figures so that is not the issue.

 

I have no other ITK info but I can assure you this is 100pc true.

 

On a different point I would not, if I were Chansiri, take a punt on a talented but untried lower league manager. For every Chris Wilder there are multiple Paul Hursts. 

 

I may be in a minority of one but I honestly think Pulis would be a solid and sensible appointment but my choice would be Rowett who I think has it in him to become a really good manager. I wonder if his relationship with USM agency may have counted against him here....

 

surely not he was 'nailed on '   dont want either pulis or rowett    but tbh if the Cowleys are off the market for us and Huddersfield  I haven't a clue who i want 

[dfoster]

4 minutes ago, steelowl said:

surely not he was 'nailed on '   dont want either pulis or rowett    but tbh if the Cowleys are off the market for us and Huddersfield  I haven't a clue who i want 

 

Me neither, really. There's a world of footy coaches out there tho there must be someone who's right for us