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Jordan Rhodes


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1 hour ago, robswfc said:

Would love him to somehow come good but it’s painfully obvious the lad is done at this level. Has been since the day he signed

That's my view too but to be clear it's not a matter of wanting him to misfire or to be proved right. It would be great if this thread could be dug up in March with the people saying he will come good going into full told-you-so mode. 

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12 hours ago, LSOwls said:

Just been watching his old goals on multiple videos. He never creates his own chances but players use him in tight spots; essentially his movement is very good but he is not asked to do anything else really. 

 

 

 

All those were scored from inside the box. Someone pointed out on another thread that we’re not great at getting the ball in the box.

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17 hours ago, PolarNigel said:

 

The bloke didn't want to join in the celebration of a last minute winner in a local derby, actively shying away from his team mates and the fans. Atty attacked the ball, which is what you wanna see a striker do. What was he meant to do? Lift Rhodes up in the air and cradle him afterwards?

 

Nothing wrong with what Adthe did at all, never said there was. The ball was there and he was better positioned to win it, so he did and he scored, and i'm really happy he scored.

 

But.. I can totally understand why Rhodes might have initially been annoyed as he thought he was going to score and got bulldozed by a teammate. To me that's a 100% normal reaction. "didn't want to join the celebration"? After a few seconds he got over it and went over and celebrated with the rest of them, including Adthe.

 

There's nothing to see here. He was pissed to have been denied the chance to score for us.. then went and celebrated.

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14 hours ago, nilsson said:

 

I'll take your word for those 'goals per minute' stats (and thanks for posting). Out of interest, what was Joao's? I'd have thought Joao would have had the best goals per minute of any of our strikers last year.

 

If Rhodes scored a goal every 168 minutes at Norwich that means he only played 1008 minutes in the entire season. A championship season is 4140 minutes of football so he was on the pitch for less than a quarter of their campaign.

 

I don't remember him missing many games through injury either. Playing less than a quarter of a season at Norwich is not exactly a ringing endorsement of a £10 million striker earning 40k+ a week

 

Good call, I missed the guys who have gone.
Hooper 318, but obviously barely played.

Joao 's was good too, 161. So the only one on a par with Rhodes. Didn't realise Joao had played as little as he did tbh, since he played in just about every game, but he only managed 90 minutes 6 times all season in all comps.

 

I think it's fair to say that how few minutes Rhodes got wasn't so much a reflection on Rhodes as a reflection on Pukki. The guy ripped up the league and now has 5 premier league goals in his 3 matches. Gabriel Jesus only played 1000 minutes in the league last season too, he's not rubbish just because Aguero is better.

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4 hours ago, marshy said:

His running stats are amazing according to Bully. 

 

Rhodes covered more ground than anyone else, i think he what he said.

But people on here will still tell you that Rhodes is lazy and disinterested.

I guess Bully's a liar then? no?

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16 hours ago, jomaco said:

You can see him moving a lot, then getting frustrated when he never receives the ball, surely bannan/Lee will be intelligent enough to use him, if he can get a place in the team

 

And I think that's what we saw the other night. Rhodes making lots of runs as usual.. but of the midfield 4, Murphy, Winnall?!, Pessy and Luongo, only Luongo seems to be decent at passing the ball. Put him in with Bannan, Lee, Harris, Reach and see what happens.

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5 hours ago, torres said:

 

Its because a lot of people are embarrassed by the fact they wanted him to sign so much, so despite him being an undisputed failure here, they still try and drag up ways it’s not his fault he plays like the Tin man on sleeping pills.

 

Play 442

Play wingers

Play him with a big man/fast man/small man

 

For the record, I wasn't clamouring for his signing. I didn't think we needed him given we had Fletch, Hoops, Joao, Nuhiu and had just signed Winnall who looked a player the season before. Spending big money on Rhodes in that moment didn't make any sense to me.

 

But.. I will defend the guy when he's getting overblown, undeserved criticism. My post a couple of pages back sets out why he's struggled for us.. No one's argued that anything I said was wrong.. but a lot seem happy to just keep on having at him, like this 'stealing a wage' nonsense. Much like Winnall, if the manager doesn't put him on the pitch then he can't score goals. If the manager puts an out and out striker on the wing, and asks Rhodes to feed off the non-existent supply that provides.. he can't score goals. This is such wildly obvious stuff.

 

"Play 442

Play wingers

Play him with a big man"

 

You seem to be saying these sarcastically.. but we signed a guy renowned for being a prolific goalscorer as part of front 2 partnerships with decent supply for out wide. Yet we've never used him like that. Carlos didn't because i guess he's not as smart as he thinks he is. Jos didn't because of the predicament we were in and the form of Joao and Nuhiu. Bruce didn't because Rhodes had already been shipped out on loan to help with FFP.

 

So here we are with Bullen. We can try and get the best out of Rhodes, knowing that we now have the tools to do so and that his goals might just fire us up the table.. of we can just not bother, and just hope Fletch can gegenpress for 46 games. Call me crazy, but i think we should try and get the best out of what we've got, and not cling on to how things went under previous managers, because none of those managers got us promoted.

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15 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

So here we are with Bullen. We can try and get the best out of Rhodes, knowing that we now have the tools to do so and that his goals might just fire us up the table.. of we can just not bother, and just hope Fletch can gegenpress for 46 games. Call me crazy, but i think we should try and get the best out of what we've got, and not cling on to how things went under previous managers, because none of those managers got us promoted.

 

I understand what you are saying and i'm sure for a period of 5 or 6 games he played in a 2 with either Fletcher or Hooper.

The sad fact is and has been throughout his career, if he doesnt score he doesnt contribute.

 

You can't afford that anymore - unless you have 10 excellent players and he doesn't miss ONE chance

 

He is slow, his all round play is very average, i've yet to see him create any little bit of space for himself and get a shot away, if its not put on a plate for him he won't score.

 

If he was a youth player he wouldn't have been dismissed as not being up to standard.

 

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14 minutes ago, crosscounty said:

I don't think that's unique for any striker - even the top ones miss chances from inside the box, i don't think that's just him.

 

Most of them manage to score a few goals at some point though...Rhodes has hardly been prolific

 

His scoring rate is very similar to Nuhiu - both in their first 30 odd appearances, and as a ratio of their total appearances since signing.

 

EDIT: infact, according to transfermarkt...Nuhiu's is better.

Edited by McRightSide
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2 hours ago, torres said:

 

I understand what you are saying and i'm sure for a period of 5 or 6 games he played in a 2 with either Fletcher or Hooper.

The sad fact is and has been throughout his career, if he doesnt score he doesnt contribute.

 

You can't afford that anymore - unless you have 10 excellent players and he doesn't miss ONE chance

 

He is slow, his all round play is very average, i've yet to see him create any little bit of space for himself and get a shot away, if its not put on a plate for him he won't score.

 

If he was a youth player he wouldn't have been dismissed as not being up to standard.

 

So under Carlos he had 1 game with Fletch (against Hull and we won, tho Rhodes didn't score). And he never player along side Nuhiu.
How many games with Hoops, I'm not sure, because Hooper sometimes got used as more of an attacking mid, and 2 years on i honestly can't remember which games he was deep and which he was forward as part of a 2 or 3. I wouldn't say Hooper was really the kind of foil Rhodes or Winnall would want tho.. Winnall, Rhodes, Joao and Hooper all tend to work by loosing their man, and that sort of player tends to work best with a player who occupies and handles his man, so a Nuhiu or a Fletch. That's part of why Hoops and Fletch were really good together.

 

Early doors under Jos, the front two was different every week. Nuhiu, Joao, Matias, Nando and Rhodes all rotating around. Seemed like he was just hoping something would click.. and in the end it did. But Rhodes then didn't get an awful lot of starts because Joao and Nuhiu hit form out of nowhere, no one was going to get in ahead of them once they got going.

 

Then he was away on loan. So yeah.. I think he's only ever started 1 game with Fletch and 1 with Nuhiu.. 2 now i guess, after the other night.

The rest have been mostly Winnall, 10 or so with Nando and a handful with Joao. Sure there's the odd sub appearances where he maybe came on and played along side Fletch for 5-10 minutes, but to me that's not a fair shake and you can't build an understanding and a partnership like that.

 

So we come to the question of does he do enough. That's tough to argue, because it's utterly subjective, right? There's been games where he's just made runs and no ones made the right pass, so he's basically "done nothing" all game. I mean, he hasn't done nothing because he's been offering for a pass to create a scoring opportunity.. but he relies on others to see the run and make the correct pass. So that's his focus.. offering for opportunities.. because if you don't score as a striker, you're instantly a waste of space. That's what you're ultimately judged on. I think he's also had games where he's been responsible for being the hold up guy.. particularly under Carlos who just seemed to see him as the big guy out of him and Winnall and so seemed to want Rhodes to do the hold-up job. It's not his forte, but he can do it ok imo. The thing that muddies the waters a bit is managers instructions. I imagine the other night, Bully's instructions were for Nuhiu to do the hold-up and Rhodes to just get in the box. And as evidenced by the running stats, that's what Rhodes did.. we just had a wildly uncreative midfield what was never going to find him. Then you have to rely on hitting balls at Nuhiu and the partnership between the two letting them forge chances.. except they've only every played together once in 3 years, so.. there is no partnership.

 

This is where I get frustrated about the Rhodes situation. We've got this guy and we're just horrible at giving him even a half decent chance of succeeding. We'll give him 10 minutes here and there, then every 10 games we'll throw him out there and expect miracles and when they don't come we go "oh, he must have lost it" and stick him back on the bench. Like, unless you're Ibrahimovic, you're going to struggle if that's what you're limited to.

 

I was looking forward to the season under Bruce, as if he was going to carry on with 442, and with Rhodes back, there seemed a decent chance we might set up to exploit is movement properly. Will Bully taking over, being that bit closer to the players I thought maybe he'd have similar thoughts.. and after the match he said "Rhodes just need a break infront of goal", but Bullen's just going to stick him back on the bench isn't he. Here's a player that the manager know needs something to just go his way once, and the same manager is not going to put him on the pitch so it can happen. Then yeah.. what is the point. If that's our plan we should have just shipped him off to Norwich when they offered to take him, we've got plenty of players who can just sit on the bench.

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2 hours ago, McRightSide said:

 

Most of them manage to score a few goals at some point though...Rhodes has hardly been prolific

 

His scoring rate is very similar to Nuhiu - both in their first 30 odd appearances, and as a ratio of their total appearances since signing.

 

EDIT: infact, according to transfermarkt...Nuhiu's is better.

 

Based on appearances or minutes?

 

Because last season Rhodes scored ever 168 minutes and Nuhiu scored every 382 minutes.. that's Rhodes scoring more than twice as often.

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18 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

Based on appearances or minutes?

 

Because last season Rhodes scored ever 168 minutes and Nuhiu scored every 382 minutes.. that's Rhodes scoring more than twice as often.

 

Nuhiu scored a goal every zero minutes for Norwich.

 

Beat that.

 

Now how about we look at how they’ve performed for us since...you know...that what we pay them to do.

 

Appearances.

 

Nuhiu scores at a better rate than Rhodes. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

Based on appearances or minutes?

 

Because last season Rhodes scored ever 168 minutes and Nuhiu scored every 382 minutes.. that's Rhodes scoring more than twice as often.

 

Still chuckling that you think it’s relevant to bring up his Norwich stats whilst ignoring the ones for us.

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24 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

Based on appearances or minutes?

 

Because last season Rhodes scored ever 168 minutes and Nuhiu scored every 382 minutes.. that's Rhodes scoring more than twice as often.

 

His post said in their first 30 appearances and as a ratio during their time with us, not solely based on last season. Rhodes had the advantage of mostly being used as a sub for Norwich at a time when they were desperate for a goal and piling people into the box. Lucas Joao had a better scoring rate last season and most of his appearances came under the hapless Jos Luhukay and was often played as a wide forward.

 

I will judge Rhodes on what he does for us. I was encouraged by how he was looking in pre season but he has looked off it again in his competitive games so far.

 

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4 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Nothing wrong with what Adthe did at all, never said there was. The ball was there and he was better positioned to win it, so he did and he scored, and i'm really happy he scored.

 

But.. I can totally understand why Rhodes might have initially been annoyed as he thought he was going to score and got bulldozed by a teammate. To me that's a 100% normal reaction. "didn't want to join the celebration"? After a few seconds he got over it and went over and celebrated with the rest of them, including Adthe.

 

There's nothing to see here. He was pissed to have been denied the chance to score for us.. then went and celebrated.

Headed a gilt edge chance straight down the goalkeepers throat earlier on, then dave nipps in and scores ahead of him to be the hero of the hour. 

 

Bullen said it was a game for those that want a match day shirt not in the 11 to play themselves into contention. 

May be why Rhodes looked dejected, as Nuhiu on performance must be second behind Fletcher. 

Nuhiu provided far more threat and on another day with luck and things dropping his way, may have sneaked a hatrick. 

The good run in the box and shot for the keeper to save down low. 

The offside header they just kept out and scrambled away and of course the winner. 

Offered far more offencivly and goal threat than Rhodes, Winnall and Nando. 

 

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