Midfield

[BarnsleyOwl96]

Bannan unfortunately is becoming a very none existent player , comes too deep

tries the 40 yard hollywood pass , screams at players yet needs to look at himself more and start to play football like a proper central midfielder. 

[Bathgate]

Here we go. Has a bad game so he is suddenly over rated again. Of you cant support our players when they play bad then you don't deserve to when they play well. 

Constructive criticism fair enough. But bazza is nowt like over rated 

[Quist]

We now have a midfield options which allow us to change team to deal with different oppositions. Unfortunately we have a manager who has absolutely no idea on how to deal with different opposition. I was encouraged by Barnsley match but now realise this came about by accident as Bannan was injured. Firstly Bannan is a very good player against certain opposition but against teams who run and harass you he is not the man he has neither physicality or speed to deal with this. Against Millwall it was worrying as the only way to beat this team is to use wings and he put Bannan on as he said to pick a lock which would not work against that lot in a month of Sundays. You need biggest strongest guys on for that game and we simply did not use players sensibly. Against Luto team looked as if need of refreshing, we were flat and got lucky with a goalkeeping error of theirs but did not look good.

Today was a day for Hutchinson Loungo and Reach in midfield and Iorfa at full back if they were utilising big forward. Its fairly obvious as this is most muscularly midfield we have and they are also biggest. Loungo and Reach have excellent legs and Hutchinson looks to have good legs this season too. Preston tire in last half hour of games and it is when they are vulnerable this is time to introduce a fresh BB, Lee and FF after they have been roughed up by our big lads.

 

For the record I said this before game and posted it in one of threads, it is not rocket science it is common sense and obvious to anyone who watches football.

 

Problem when we BB against these type of teams is we try to use him and give ball to opposition. 

 

It is also clear Bullen is tied into loyalties and will stick by certain players although clearly not suited to task. He is good friend of JR's dad so he will be in 18 come what may. I think its clear who other pals are. This is no good for a manager or coach and needs to be replaced as quickly as possible and returned to cone duties. 

 

I also think u/23s are suffering as coaching has been weakened and these lads are future so Thompson needs to go back in charge.of that team quickly

 

 

[not welsh owl]

For all those wanting bullen  manager hope you went today hes no idea

[Mike Hunt]

15 minutes ago, mogbad said:

Personally think playing 2 out & out wingers leaves us too thin in the middle, particularly away from home. Granted Bannan hasn't reached his usual standards yet this season but making a scapegoat of our best & most productive player over the last 3 seasons is ridiculous. Today's issue was more down to the system. 

This 

its the system not Bannan 

[BarnsleyOwl96]

12 minutes ago, Bathgate said:

Here we go. Has a bad game so he is suddenly over rated again. Of you cant support our players when they play bad then you don't deserve to when they play well. 

Constructive criticism fair enough. But bazza is nowt like over rated 

 

He played poor against Luton , our best performance was against Barnsley when he didn’t play 

[Jim]

The balance in midfield is our Achilles heel both in what it gives us defensively and particularly offensively. This is the major problem going forward for me and perhaps another reason why Bullen shouldn’t get the managers job full-time as he’s witnessed this for the last four or five seasons and still doesn’t have a grasp on the problem?

Edited August 24, 2019 by Great Big Galaa

[BarnsleyOwl96]

Luongo 100% deserves a start 

[Blatter]

I can see the limitations of our midfield three of Hutchinson Lee and Bannan against physically strong teams like Millwall and Preston. It’s a problem that still cries out for a more powerful runner. Not sure if Luongo is the answer, too early to say.

 

Having said that please let’s not forget it’s the defence and in particular Odubajo that lost us that game today. Don’t think I ever remember the same player giving away two penalties in 35 minutes play before.

 

 

[Blatter]

31 minutes ago, mogbad said:

Personally think playing 2 out & out wingers leaves us too thin in the middle, particularly away from home. Granted Bannan hasn't reached his usual standards yet this season but making a scapegoat of our best & most productive player over the last 3 seasons is ridiculous. Today's issue was more down to the system. 

Agreed and the game changed as soon as the system changed.

Three at the back and a packed midfield improved everything.

It allowed two up front of which Nuhiu sounded excellent.

[Mike Hunt]

Should have gone 442 today

We were 451 at times in the first half with Fletch totally isolated 

 

[shezzas left peg]

I've always maintained bazza is just too small, not robust or defensively sound enough as a central midfielder. 

Which is why successive managers at villa, Palace and here too played him out wide not in the combatitive pit of cm. 

I was hoping that finally In a midfield three that we would have enough to cover for his deficiencies. 

Lee for me is not yet back up to his old standards, hopefully with Loungo & hutch it will work better whilst then utilising Lee as an impact sub allowing him to break into the box more. 

Otherwise I'm out of ideas of how best to accommodate bazza's skill without weakening us as a whole defencively 

 

I remember the Derby mauling at home where VanAkren took all the flack. 

Yet at least three of their goals that day came as a direct result of bazza being just in front of the cb' and either getting cought in possession or giving jva a hospital pass around our box. 

Yet no one blamed him. 

[Luke]

Barnsley westbrom and Norwich

 

3 games I can think where bannan wasn't involved and we dominated the lot 

 

Half decent player but he is so slow it makes my eyes bleed 

[shezzas left peg]

44 minutes ago, hugeowl said:

This 

its the system not Bannan 

I've said this way too many times during Bazza's time here  and was hoping that this formation would hide his defencive dificiancies playing in a three, but also allow him to better use his passing  abilities with a couple of quick lads out on the flanks. 

 

For me it still doesn't work and he's just not cut out for the chaotic maelstrom of cm. When he's put under pressure and closed down from all sides he really struggles. He's also just not physically built for the hurly burly of cm. 

For me he was far more effective in a 4-4-2 out wide where he got more space and time to utilise his passing & crossing, yet opposition wide men /wingers don't tend to be as big and powerful, so backed up with his fullback he didn't weaken us defencively. 

 

[Mike Hunt]

Preston or Neil in particular always double up on Bannan, they do with Forestieri when he is playing as well 

[Ronnie Starling]

Lee Bannan and Hutch are the untouchables amongst our fan base. Time and time again they fail to turn up and get minimal criticism. Morgan Fox misplaces a pass and gets dogs abuse. Reach also gets it from our fan base but delivers more than the untouchables with goals and assists. We are now into our fifth season under Chansiri and while many areas of the team have changed we are still reliant on a midfield that has shown it's not good enough to gain promotion. Time to make some difficult decisions and mix it up.

[steelerian]

Midfield has been our problem for many years. As are our full backs. Many like to think that our strikers arent good enough (probably true also), but the biggest problem is the lack of supply and support to our strikers.

 

But this can be remedied by tweaking our system a little, by simply getting more men, a lot more men, further up field.

 

Today I watched Wednesday play 433 v Preston, then I watched Liverpool play 433 v Arsenal. Wednesday and Liverpool play 433 so differently. Worlds apart.

 

Liverpool essentially play a 253, with the full backs playing very high almost as orthodox wingers, whipping in cross after cross and supporting the play, always being an option. Their 3 strikers are actual strikers, not wingers, and get into the box at every opportunity. And their midfielders really cover box to box.

 

Wednesday essentially play 451, with a very flat back 4, 2 very deep midfielders, 2 wingers who stay too wide, meaning a very isolated lone striker, and a 3rd central midfielder who has too much ground to cover alone. Full backs are merely watching most of the game, redundant.

 

This clearly doesn't work. It doesn't allow us to press high, it doesn't lead to enough turnovers or chances created, it doesn't allow ball retention and recycling in the opponents half of the pitch, and more counter productively it allows us to be pressed back, rather than the other way around.

 

Now obviously we dont have the quality that Liverpool have in the squad, or the pace, or the engines, so I'm not going to try to compare our players, but that doesn't mean we cant all shift further up field where we can be a LOT more effective, and it would definitely allow us to score more goals.

 

Seriously, we would look a totally different team if we just watched how Liverpool played, and assumed similar positions out on the park, and shifted 20-30 yards further up.

 

It may even turn Bannan into the player we all know he can be, but isnt being. Stranger things have happened.

 

Oh, and finally, it would be a hell of a lot more exciting to watch. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by steelerian

[Sticky belly]

4 hours ago, LittleG said:

It's not only BB that gets bullied, Lee does as well. We have still not signed the dominant midfielder we've all been crying out for; unless it's Luongo.

 

This. When I saw the central midfield I knew we would lose this game. Too lightweight with Lee and Bannan away from home. Hutch adds some defensive stability but he’s not the quickest at getting back and covering ground. I have high hopes for Luongo and I thought he should have started today. You go away to Preston and you have to match them physically and earn the right to play first. 

[Groundhopping Owl]

The midfield three lack discipline - I’m mainly pointing at Bannan and Hutchinson here.

 

It’s not that they’re bad players, they’re very gifted footballers and they give massive commitment to the cause. But... when they get frustrated that commitment can turn into a problem because they end up running around like headless chickens trying to make things happen. We lose shape when they’re charging around trying to win the ball back higher than is probably feasible, just as we lose shape when Bannan’s trying to run the game from between the centre backs.

 

The door is wide open for Bullen to start Luongo on Saturday and I strongly suspect he’ll do just that.

[Ray Von shabba]

4 hours ago, BarnsleyOwl96 said:

None existent today , bannan was shocking , we aren’t dictating play at all in middle of the park just sitting too deep . Not one of lee, bazza or hutch plays in the other half 

Spot on

The vast majority of games are won or lost by control of midfield and we are not strong enough at the moment.