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Peacenocchio

Another night of safety. Thanks SAG!

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27 minutes ago, OWL1969 said:

I know you've posted to this with the best intentions to highlight the problem which has been caused of SAG's own doing, but please delete it, before it falls into the wrong hands, certain factions would be only to happy to use this against us. (By us I mean Swfc).

 

 

Tbf that is no different to leaving a music gig. You shuffle along until you get to the main exit. Doesn't look dangerous just a bit more time consuming

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We need to remember what sort of a police force we are dealing with here.

 

SYP altered and tampered with 100's of witness statements after the disaster 

 

SYP turned a blind eye to child sexual abuse on a massive scale in Rotherham 

 

SYP tipoed off the BBC about their raid on Cliff Richards home so the BBC could film it live.

 

SYP committed mass assaults on miners at Orgreave in the eighties.

 

SYP are not fit for purpose and are a disgrace .

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3 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

The restrictions are a farce. Im a ST holder on the north , and i park my car on my moms drive on Shenstone Rd , opposite the away end . Last night i left the ground on penistone rd and took the first left up Vere Rd un challenged and came out among the Luton fans on leppings lane and walked across on to Shenstone .i wasnt the only one who did this. 

You’ve done it now.

There’ll be 50 police...er persons in full riot gear tazars at the ready at the top end of Vere Rd next game.

I’ll have to go round by Fielding Rd.

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1 minute ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

Yes that’s the simple answer for them. I’m asking how we can counter that issue or basically make the back (fornicate) off

Turn up..... If hey won't let you in.....Stand outside blocking Penistone for 90 minutes...Only need a few hundred to turn up to cause chaos...

Turn up and stand in the road...

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To understand that report you have to know the premise that the commissioner of it put to the Author 

 

If Wednesday commisioned a report by an independant advisor i'm certain that how they frame the parameters that the report needs to cover they could get a report favourable to the Club 

 

There is a brilliant episode of Yes Minister/ Yes Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey explains how you get the same survey to give favourable answers to both sides dependent on the question you ask 

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2 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

We need to remember what sort of a police force we are dealing with here.

 

SYP altered and tampered with 100's of witness statements after the disaster 

 

SYP turned a blind eye to child sexual abuse on a massive scale in Rotherham 

 

SYP tipoed off the BBC about their raid on Cliff Richards home so the BBC could film it live.

 

SYP committed mass assaults on miners at Orgreave in the eighties.

 

SYP are not fit for purpose and are a disgrace .

Tbf at Orgreave they brought in coppers from around the country and squaddies. It was against leftie unions and Scargill so let them off for that

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1 hour ago, gizowl said:

What planet are you on,what if someone gets seriously injured, what I want 

1 hour ago, gizowl said:

What planet are you on,what if someone gets seriously injured, what I want to achieve is make these pen pushing lobbers realise what they've done is a backward step,think before you open your spout. 

 

Planet reality mate.   If you think theiy didn't know the consequences of the prohibition notice, you're being naive. 

The only chance the club have of overturning this, is if they can prove that SAG are being unreasonable.   Any complaints about safety will be used against the club.  So, even though we as fans are furious with the decision,  our best course of action is to stay quiet and leave it to the club .

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3 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

The worst part was an ambulance trying to get through with one lane closed and increased numbers of people spilling out onto Penistone Road.

 

Absolute shambles. Should be ashamed of themselves.

there will be blood on the b*stard sags hands very soon , that ambulance could have taken 5 mins longer the difference between life and death . sag are disgusting idiotic individuals who are not fit for there job and are deliberately trying to destroy our club. 

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52 minutes ago, RichieB said:

Why couldn't the Luton fans be held back last night so that our fans could exit as normal? 

 

Didn't that report state our away concourse was only big enough to hold around 500 fans, how many Luton fans were there last night? 

 

https://www.southyorks.police.uk/media/4337/crowd-risk-analysis-hillsborough-stadium-south-yorks-police.pdf

 

The report indicates in figure 17 and comments on page 16 that the following number of away fans as highlighted below entering the egress are fine when our home turnstiles at that end are in use:

 

As can be seen the total area available is approximately 765m2 resulting in crowd figures at the various densities as follows. 1 person per metre2 765 persons 2 persons per metre2 1530 persons 3 persons per metre2 2295 persons 4 persons per metres2 3060 person 

 

The report states this becomes a risk with 2,295 away fans and is a potential dangerous issue above 3,060 away fans.

 

Having been at the match yesterday I know Luton did not have in excess of what this report deems safe numbers for the egress to operate with the Leppings Lane home turnstiles in use.

However, SYP and SAG have used this report to inflict a blanket ban on the use of this area by home fans, thus causing more problems than was previously the case.

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9 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

We need to remember what sort of a police force we are dealing with here.

 

SYP altered and tampered with 100's of witness statements after the disaster 

 

SYP turned a blind eye to child sexual abuse on a massive scale in Rotherham 

 

SYP tipoed off the BBC about their raid on Cliff Richards home so the BBC could film it live.

 

SYP committed mass assaults on miners at Orgreave in the eighties.

 

SYP are not fit for purpose and are a disgrace .

disgusting police force not fit for purpose ,they don't attend burglaries and all vans what are getting nicked lately ,id sack the lot of them and get in another force fit for purpose. 

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I noticed coming out of the ground the police were recording fans exiting the ground and I doubt it was for crowd trouble. 

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Posted (edited)

Can't we just say if fans mixing in the concourse is the problem, then not allow away fans to enter and close the stand?

 

We'd look a laughing stock yes, but it would get the lunacy in the public eye.

 

The thing is, with the disaster, we are fighting a losing battle with the media as well as SYP unfortunately.

Edited by Birley Owl 1867

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Basically what has happened is we've been told to close the gates of the dam and now we're being publically blamed for a rising reservoir. 

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I haven’t read all this thread but get the gist of it so apologise if mentioned already. 

As I left the North, I saw SYP filming the fans exiting the North stand onto penistone road, with cars stopping / braking etc .... 

They’re Defo building a dossier imo 

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I heard a lot of boos coming from the north south during the second half.    knew what it was about,    the annouced was completed drowned out

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3 hours ago, Peacenocchio said:

Well that could have been another apocalyptic night at Hillsborough. There were at least 300 mild mannered Luton fans ready to reign havoc on us or for our fans to have possibly drove them into the river with pitchforks. You never know do you.

Thank God that SAG commissioned a student from Manchester Poly to tell them that far from their policing and communication being to blame for the Derby kicking off, it was actually that the layout of the ground was so dangerous that despite all evidence to the contrary ANY game could result in a major catastrophe.

Yes, a Tuesday night game with 23000 Owls and 300 away fans with no history of animosity is so potentially dangerous that we must close exits and wee pipe everyone around.

What a great risk assessment meeting SAG must have had. Imagine the anguish when considering whether to call the game off in case of lightening causing the police box to fry or the potential of a meteor strike. 

What a bunch of thick agenda driven tools.

 

 

We probably need this in place even if there were 5 away fans. 

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The SAG are causing this not the club.

 

If i was the club I would be requesting that Penistone Road is shut one hour before kick off and one hour after to safeguard fans leaving the stadium and averting an accident waiting to happen, if they won’t comply they are not interested in supporter safety.

 

First it was the West stand, now it’s the North stand.

 

Next year it will be the South stand and last but not least the Kop. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Hirstys Salopettes said:

Thanks HP,

 

The author identifies some valid points - for example, the dangerous low bollards which no-one can see when walking out - who insisted on those?

 

Bottleneck of the Leppings Lane access - this has always been a slow exit for 50 years due to the away end discharging at the same time - the coaches have always been parked there again for 50 years because it was thought the quickest [not necessarily the safest] route to get away fans into the ground - we now have 10x more traffic than we did in the 70's.

 

It also infers a lack of Police organisation in moving people out through the turnstile apron area efficiently and allowing rubber neckers, malingerers or folk wanting a slanging match - is that the clubs fault?

 

This report suggests some measures including hold back - implement that, don't close the ground, the exits or push the problem somewhere else - deal with it.

It does not identify or explore other equally acceptable measures or suggest a medium to long term solution.

It does not identify the risks associated with its recommendations and this is the worrying part that appears to have been acted upon - it is not complete, takes two extreme examples and is silent on perhaps 80% of regular and adequate / proportionate matchday arrangements.

 

In my view, 1] perhaps stack away coaches away from the bottleneck and round the corner along Catch Bar Lane - discharge the coaches at the same time and march them down or better still build another 6.0m steel bridge across the Don to egress the away end directly onto CB La? - The North then leaves at both ends and the South still has two exits over the bridge or out at the side of the Kop.

 

2] Hold the buggers back - its undercover.

3] Limit the away end to 2000 rather than affect the home support.

4] For any game where less than say 25,000 are expected allow use as normal but with more efficient policing / 'crowd control' moving people away from a high risk area exacerbating a pinch point...

 

Just a few ramblings of an old man - not an 'expert' in crowd management....

Edited by Flat Owl
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Flat Owl said:

Just a few ramblings of an old man - not an 'expert' in crowd management....

 

Its ok mate, I doubt neither was the bugger who won’t put his name to it (but I presume that was the point being made) 

Edited by Hirstys Salopettes
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