camffiti Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, cowl said: Stinking their way to the play-off final; not a bad way to stink. The philosophical predetermined decisions were not helping them, in the game I was watching Predetermined patterns of play, around your box ( ) are as silly as watching Brits chip charging at Wimbledon, or reverse sweeps at Lords ... Predetermined being the key word I guess 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 hours ago, McRightSide said: The rise of Pep in English football and the new goalkick law have only further increased the % of teams that are following a fashion of playing football from the back without necessarily having the capability and discipline to do it. Equally, they seem bereft of ideas on how to play a longer game Already we’ve seen Luton and Reading gift us goals due to this and I’m sure that we can all painfully remember how many points it cost under Jos. I’m very happy to see us strike a nice balance of football - long when necessary and short when possible - without taking unnecessary risks due to pre-determined tactical policy. In this league, high percentage football at the back and smart, targeted pressing work is a good recipe for success. The second half yesterday was a perfect showcase of that. Please Bullen - or whoever ends up in charge - do not get sucked into fashionable football without capability. it shouldn't be any where near that, it should be long (either to the target man striker, or winger) as the first option IF the situation is advantageous upfield for us to do so, and disadvantageous to the opposition who have men caught in our half. if not then look to supply our attacking m/f, the penultimate option is **** about short with it, and the final option is keeper, and, WHOOSH! but don't get caught ****ing about with it in and around our own area when there were other options. not more than 30 or so years ago you'd have got a right ****ing for ****ing about with it on the edge of the area, now it's the new chocolate. mick lyons was one of the best wednesday centre backs I've ever seen, it was his job to challenge for physical high balls, to intercept, to tackle, and if necessary to stop the opposition's fancy b***ards, not become one himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock1961 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 What I can't fathom is haven't they worked out the end result of the possession at the back philosophy. Us as an example under jos and Carlos to some extent would fanny about across the back 4 to Bannan and repeat 2 or 3 times then back to Westwood. The keeper then hooves it up front when Bannan or Lees could have been more accurate from 30 yards up the pitch. I can only think it's about tiring the opposites. Well it certainly tires me. Bannan last night 1st half banging his floaties up to our 5ft wingers up against big full backs. Crying out for a pass into space on the floor. I suppose we did change it 2nd half, but it is so frustrating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, peacock1961 said: What I can't fathom is haven't they worked out the end result of the possession at the back philosophy. Us as an example under jos and Carlos to some extent would fanny about across the back 4 to Bannan and repeat 2 or 3 times then back to Westwood. The keeper then hooves it up front when Bannan or Lees could have been more accurate from 30 yards up the pitch. I can only think it's about tiring the opposites. Well it certainly tires me. Bannan last night 1st half banging his floaties up to our 5ft wingers up against big full backs. Crying out for a pass into space on the floor. I suppose we did change it 2nd half, but it is so frustrating. 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, camffiti said: The philosophical predetermined decisions were not helping them, in the game I was watching Predetermined patterns of play, around your box ( ) are as silly as watching Brits chip charging at Wimbledon, or reverse sweeps at Lords ... Predetermined being the key word I guess How else do teams get better at a way of playing than to actually set about playing that way? Along the way they'll make mistakes. You can't think to appraise a team's way of playing off the back of one game, and as I say, Derby's season went quite well considering they contested the play-off final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, dorian gray said: did they win what we won under coco? some people's understanding of success. I don't understand what your getting at. I'm merely pointing to the fact Derby's season cannot be summed up by one game in which they may have appeared to put adherence to a way of playing ahead of pragmatism. After all, they reached the play-off final, which as a yardstick to measure how successful their way of playing was under Lampard, would obviously measure more favourably than if they'd finished 15th, say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camffiti Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, cowl said: How else do teams get better at a way of playing than to actually set about playing that way? Along the way they'll make mistakes. You can't think to appraise a team's way of playing off the back of one game, and as I say, Derby's season went quite well considering they contested the play-off final. Firstly I didn't appraise their season in that post, or at the time of the game ... Btw IMO their season was decent - Probably a top 2 budget & made the top 6. At the time, it was a comment on that game and the post was stating just that The common sense point, that I really didn't think needed explaining further, was about playing the situation of the game. Rather than blindly sticking 100% to a philosophy. There are times in games where defenders find themselves in the sh*t and just need to go off script and use common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adem Poric Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Teams that do this, especially at Hillsborough, are playing right into our strengths. Long may they continue to do it as none of them have players technically gifted enough for it to be a big issue. It's no coincidence that we struggled the most against Millwall. If teams keep giving us the ball in their own half we will kill them with Harris and Murphy in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0114 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Football snobbery this playing out from the back malarkey. I watched Luhukay try and do this last year, constantly over playing from the keeper and I reckon 70% of our goals came from us overplaying. I then watched Bruce’s team hitting the front quicker, playing off Fletcher, and trust me that was more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, cowl said: I don't understand what your getting at. I'm merely pointing to the fact Derby's season cannot be summed up by one game in which they may have appeared to put adherence to a way of playing ahead of pragmatism. After all, they reached the play-off final, which as a yardstick to measure how successful their way of playing was under Lampard, would obviously measure more favourably than if they'd finished 15th, say. of course 3rd is better than 13th. but no win, is no win, and they won zilch, much as we did when we went, but at least it looked like they tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Adem Poric said: Teams that do this, especially at Hillsborough, are playing right into our strengths. Long may they continue to do it as none of them have players technically gifted enough for it to be a big issue. It's no coincidence that we struggled the most against Millwall. If teams keep giving us the ball in their own half we will kill them with Harris and Murphy in the side. To be fair Luton did ok with it first half but it was pretty simple for us to get to grips with it, and when we did they barely got back into our half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adem Poric Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, McRightSide said: To be fair Luton did ok with it first half but it was pretty simple for us to get to grips with it, and when we did they barely got back into our half That was more because we looked out of sorts. It took us about 35 minutes to wake up, like we were still hungover from Saturday. Second half was different though, were controlled them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, peacock1961 said: What I can't fathom is haven't they worked out the end result of the possession at the back philosophy. Us as an example under jos and Carlos to some extent would fanny about across the back 4 to Bannan and repeat 2 or 3 times then back to Westwood. The keeper then hooves it up front when Bannan or Lees could have been more accurate from 30 yards up the pitch. I can only think it's about tiring the opposites. Well it certainly tires me. Bannan last night 1st half banging his floaties up to our 5ft wingers up against big full backs. Crying out for a pass into space on the floor. I suppose we did change it 2nd half, but it is so frustrating. It clearly must work in some games.. Swansea finished just outside the play offs last season so obviously won a fair %. When they played at Hillsborough it was easy for us with all the faffing they were doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls2k Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Philosophy is great if you have the tools, without them it's delusion. If I was watching our two home games I'd be instructing my GK to play it out and when the press came hit it long to beat it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 10 hours ago, steelcityowlsfan said: You need to buy players that can play that system not try and make existing ones play it. Round holes and all that. Hmmm remember someone Trying to turn Tom Lees into Franco baresi........ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, Adem Poric said: That was more because we looked out of sorts. It took us about 35 minutes to wake up, like we were still hungover from Saturday. Second half was different though, were controlled them. Here's just a thought, but maybe the reason we looked lethargic and off the pace was the game plan was to not concede early again, play safe and grow into the game?? We saw what happened against Millwall and how we struggled to break them down, so could've been a safety first reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, shezzas left peg said: Here's just a thought, but maybe the reason we looked lethargic and off the pace was the game plan was to not concede early again, play safe and grow into the game?? We saw what happened against Millwall and how we struggled to break them down, so could've been a safety first reason. Listen to the interview with Bullen. He explains it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 On 21/08/2019 at 14:59, camffiti said: The philosophical predetermined decisions were not helping them, in the game I was watching Predetermined patterns of play, around your box ( ) are as silly as watching Brits chip charging at Wimbledon, or reverse sweeps at Lords ... Predetermined being the key word I guess This is a very high standard post.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Don't really like this playing from the back rubbish. Even if we had top quality players, I still wouldn't like to see us play that way. Would rather see the keeper hoof it as far up the pitch as possible, then look to either win the ball from that point or the second ball from there. A direct approach all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Championship..clear your lines.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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