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Obviously just speculation on my part, but anyone think Jos was told by DC to offload the big earners? Maybe this was the reason he froze them out, hoping they would move on? No secret that we were screwwed in terms of FFP if we didnt go up that year. Maybe DC didnt have the stadium sale plan lined up at that point and told Jos to move big earners and those deemed surplus on. 

 

Think he was always gonna struggle here. He came, he tried, he failed. Club was a mess behind the scenes anyways so anyone would have probs failed.

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6 hours ago, OxonOwl said:

I think Jos was not a bad manager but he fell out with DC and tried to get the sack rather than resign.

 

Sorry mate but can’t agree there.

 

Once Reach’s long-range wonder goals started to dry up last season, we had very little idea and were drifting towards relegation before he was let go.

 

I don’t think Luhukay deliberately tried to sabotage our team and intentionally get the sack.  He was just a rank bad appointment.  I called it a crazy gamble on the day that JL was announced to take over and got many pelters on here for it.  Overall his spell here as head coach was about as disappointing as I had anticipated.

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43 minutes ago, OwlinOldham said:

Obviously just speculation on my part, but anyone think Jos was told by DC to offload the big earners? Maybe this was the reason he froze them out, hoping they would move on? No secret that we were screwwed in terms of FFP if we didnt go up that year. Maybe DC didnt have the stadium sale plan lined up at that point and told Jos to move big earners and those deemed surplus on. 

 

Think he was always gonna struggle here. He came, he tried, he failed. Club was a mess behind the scenes anyways so anyone would have probs failed.

There is without doubt in my mind some truth in that . 

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25 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

Sorry mate but can’t agree there.

 

Once Reach’s long-range wonder goals started to dry up last season, we had very little idea and were drifting towards relegation before he was let go.

 

I don’t think Luhukay deliberately tried to sabotage our team and intentionally get the sack.  He was just a rank bad appointment.  I called it a crazy gamble on the day that JL was announced to take over and got many pelters on here for it.  Overall his spell here as head coach was about as disappointing as I had anticipated.

 

He was a bad manager for us, but clearly he's not a bad manager as he's done well at big clubs abroad.

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2 hours ago, OwlinOldham said:

Obviously just speculation on my part, but anyone think Jos was told by DC to offload the big earners? Maybe this was the reason he froze them out, hoping they would move on? No secret that we were screwwed in terms of FFP if we didnt go up that year. Maybe DC didnt have the stadium sale plan lined up at that point and told Jos to move big earners and those deemed surplus on. 

 

Think he was always gonna struggle here. He came, he tried, he failed. Club was a mess behind the scenes anyways so anyone would have probs failed.

He wouldn’t have told Jos that, it’s not the managers job to move players on, it’s the directors and agents. Most managers these days just pick the team in front of them 

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FWIW I think Jos was given a team in transition and was told to reshape it on the cheap. Unfortunately he didn’t have the personality to deal with the big players & ended up alienating them whilst overusing the kids & hanging them out to dry. His CV suggests he could have been successful here, just the wrong appointment at that moment in time.

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55 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

He wouldn’t have told Jos that, it’s not the managers job to move players on, it’s the directors and agents. Most managers these days just pick the team in front of them 

 

While i get what your saying, i cant help but think he was maybe told that the only way he was getting any players of his own in was if some of our well paid players leave. You only have to watch the sunderland documentary to know that managers will purposely freeze players out to try get them to move on (Rodwell). Think in that instance his refusal to move from Sunderland cost thrm the chance to sign 2 players. 

 

This issue coupled with DCs worry over FFP penaties that season maybe had a lot to do with why a lot of our better players were not playing or being picked. 

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1 minute ago, PuntItLikeDielna said:

Think the point is that his English probably isn't awful, no need to presume it simply because he's foreign

 

Did you miss every press conference we held for 18 months?

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I feel like he pitched the youth / cost cutting / tough discipline approach to DC and it made sense to him...you can see what after the CC holiday camp.

 

Unfortunately our young players weren’t up to scratch, Jos didn’t have an offensive bone in his footballing body and he just didn’t understand the Championship.

 

Throw in his absolute unwillingness to bend from his strategy and i’m convinced we’d have dropped if he’d remained in charge for the full season.

 

Out of interest, was he insanely rocking in his seat offering no coaching support to the team still?

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On 16/09/2019 at 21:39, malek said:

In my opinion our best left back by some margin...

 

Wow, you're still running with that? During the time you've held that opinion he's been out on loan twice and aside from a couple of decent performances looked horribly exposed at LB for us.

 

Not physically or mentally mature enough to be LB in the Championship, I still think he'll go the same way as Reach and end up playing further forward mainly. At what level remains to be seen

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19 minutes ago, Ash76 said:

 

Wow, you're still running with that? During the time you've held that opinion he's been out on loan twice and aside from a couple of decent performances looked horribly exposed at LB for us.

 

Not physically or mentally mature enough to be LB in the Championship, I still think he'll go the same way as Reach and end up playing further forward mainly. At what level remains to be seen

 

And then again, he was voted our player of the month, got played horribly out of position and with busted shoulder. Figure that out...

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4 hours ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

Sorry mate but can’t agree there.

 

Once Reach’s long-range wonder goals started to dry up last season, we had very little idea and were drifting towards relegation before he was let go.

 

I don’t think Luhukay deliberately tried to sabotage our team and intentionally get the sack.  He was just a rank bad appointment.  I called it a crazy gamble on the day that JL was announced to take over and got many pelters on here for it.  Overall his spell here as head coach was about as disappointing as I had anticipated.

 

It wasn't a totally serious post BUT I think some of the decisions and tactics of his second season were different to the way he approached the end of the previous season. There was a safish approach augmented by the luck of players coming back and some players playing better than expected. My memory is fallible but it was the new season that seemed to herald the bizarre tactics and decisions.

 

I may be wrong but as I said, I wasn't totally serious in the first place. :-)

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DC said himself at Christmas he didn’t tell Jos anything in regards to team selection or moving players on because...

 

A. He’s not stupid or stubborn enough to think he knows better.

 

B. Why get a dog and bark yourself. He said in his other businesses he’d never employed a manager, then just done the managing for them.

 

C. If it got out, no managers of the calibre he wants at the Club would ever want to work for him. 

 

I think the the last two appointments, along with the foundations Bruce was allowed to lay, put rumours like that firmly to bed.

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3 minutes ago, NeonLeon said:

DC said himself at Christmas he didn’t tell Jos anything in regards to team selection or moving players on because...

 

A. He’s not stupid or stubborn enough to think he knows better.

 

B. Why get a dog and bark yourself. He said in his other businesses he’d never employed a manager, then just done the managing for them.

 

C. If it got out, no managers of the calibre he wants at the Club would ever want to work for him. 

 

I think the the last two appointments, along with the foundations Bruce was allowed to lay, put rumours like that firmly to bed.

I've no idea what went off but not sure that i'd take the owners word as gospel …….

 

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23 minutes ago, torryowl said:

I've no idea what went off but not sure that i'd take the owners word as gospel …….

 

 

I get what you’re saying, but my stance with it has always been Chansiri was the only party that’s ever spoken up on it. And his version rings true with the testimonies of Westwood and Hutchinson.

 

I said at the time agents and players will be out of pocket because of the decisions Luhukay was making. Now if they were purely financially motivated ones, instigated by the chairman, it would’ve leaked. It leaked every time it happened under Mandaric, starting with Clinton Morrison all the way through to Madine years later. 

 

So, for me, it’s hard not to believe the chairman really. 

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8 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said:

 

He was a bad manager for us, but clearly he's not a bad manager as he's done well at big clubs abroad.

 

If he'd done so well, he wouldn't have found himself out of work for 18 months before joining us.

 

I'm not going to comment on his performance at other clubs because I don't know enough about the circumstances and expectations at his other teams.

 

But let's not kid ourselves that the JL experiment had a well thought-out plan behind it.

 

4 hours ago, OxonOwl said:

 

It wasn't a totally serious post BUT I think some of the decisions and tactics of his second season were different to the way he approached the end of the previous season. There was a safish approach augmented by the luck of players coming back and some players playing better than expected. My memory is fallible but it was the new season that seemed to herald the bizarre tactics and decisions.

 

I may be wrong but as I said, I wasn't totally serious in the first place. :-)

 

I agree that we did finish the 17/18 season in good form once we'd reached safety from relegation.  JL's tactics, player selections and substitutions did get crazier as time went on; that October to December 2018 period was batsh*t mental.

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21 hours ago, Ethel The Tree said:

Must admit, I was dazzled by the way we finished Jos' first season

Six wins in his last nine games (compared to three wins in Bruce's last nine)

I gave Jos most of the credit but that run also coincided with Bannan & Forestieri returning from injury and Nuhiu scoring goals like there was no tomorrow

 

So what went wrong?

Lots, probably. But I'll always be convinced communication (or lack of) was part of the problem

His English was atrocious whereas his German is no doubt spot on

He maybe should've taken some classes during that first summer

I don't think it was his command of English .. I think there was more to it .. from building a solid base and picking players reguarly including some seasoned pro's .. i'm adamant that he was given a remit to refresh the squad, phase out big earners, bring in youth with the prospect of selling and work from there - unfortunately we didn't have the luxury of time to do that an the players coming in weren't mentally tough enough or perhaps good enough at the time for a championship battle - hence Bullen bringing Westwood and Hutch back when he was caretaker ...

 

14 hours ago, OwlinOldham said:

Obviously just speculation on my part, but anyone think Jos was told by DC to offload the big earners? Maybe this was the reason he froze them out, hoping they would move on? No secret that we were screwwed in terms of FFP if we didnt go up that year. Maybe DC didnt have the stadium sale plan lined up at that point and told Jos to move big earners and those deemed surplus on. 

 

Think he was always gonna struggle here. He came, he tried, he failed. Club was a mess behind the scenes anyways so anyone would have probs failed.

As above .. I'm in the same camp as you ..

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11 minutes ago, Hack-Abusi said:

I don't think it was his command of English .. I think there was more to it .. from building a solid base and picking players reguarly including some seasoned pro's .. i'm adamant that he was given a remit to refresh the squad, phase out big earners, bring in youth with the prospect of selling and work from there - unfortunately we didn't have the luxury of time to do that an the players coming in weren't mentally tough enough or perhaps good enough at the time for a championship battle - hence Bullen bringing Westwood and Hutch back when he was caretaker ...

 

Yes, I know. It's only a pet theory of mine

 

There was a photo published during his second season - I'm sure it was at Hillsborough

Jos was on the touchline passing instructions on to Adam Reach

Reach's expression was priceless, kind of:  "WTF you on about."  :laugh:

 

I took one look at that and thought 'that's the problem we're having, right there!'

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31 minutes ago, Ethel The Tree said:

 

Yes, I know. It's only a pet theory of mine

 

There was a photo published during his second season - I'm sure it was at Hillsborough

Jos was on the touchline passing instructions on to Adam Reach

Reach's expression was priceless, kind of:  "WTF you on about."  :laugh:

 

I took one look at that and thought 'that's the problem we're having, right there!'

Should have sent Reach on a German language course.  

 

Problem sorted. 

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