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Getting the best out of Rhodes


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I'm one of those that think Rhodes has been harshly judged at Wednesday. With the right service, he'll thrive. With Harris and Murphy we now have the pace out wide (and hopefully, delivery) that should bring the best out of Rhodes. 

I'm sure the experts will put me right, but Rhodes operates best with a partner. I don't see him effective as a lone striker. Fletcher occupies the big centre half, creating space for Rhodes and the wide man to exploit.

 

So how do we set up to get the best out of Rhodes (I think the same analysis applies to Winnall too)?

 

Up front: Fletcher and Rhodes

Width, proving the ammo: Harris and Reach/Murphy

 

So that leaves two in midfield. I can't help thinking, that Harris and Murphy would leave us a bit light. So three at the back to allow three in the middle.

 

Midfield: three from Hutch, Luongo, Bannan, Lee.

Back three: Borner, Lees, Iorfa.

 

But three at the back? Didn't work under Jos, but then little did. Whilst 4-3-3 (4-5-1) keeps working, I can't see us reverting to a back three, and there won't be a starting place for Rhodes. So we'll continue to be disappointed.

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2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Anyone that wants to disrupt the successful 4-3-3 for a 4-4-2 that neutralises our midfield and shoehorns in Rhodes wants their lumps feeling. Round pegs, round holes. That's how you win football matches (that and kicking the ball into the other team's net).

This, the role for Rhodes will be a similar one he had at Norwich, from the bench. If the game against Bury is rescheduled, then he may play in that  Those were the type of games he would start for Norwich

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He's probably had the best spells in his career when he's played alongside a traditional target man. In pre-season he played alongside Fletcher, looked sharp and scored goals.

 

As has been mentioned several times, we probably don't have enough strength in midfield to play a four so what you might see most of the time is the kind of formation we played at Reading? Fletcher is first choice at the moment without question and then whoever is in charge would probably look at Nuhiu as next in line due to his physical presence and hold-up play?

 

Perhaps we'll use Rhodes similarly to what Norwich did last season as an impact sub? Whatever happens, he looks sharper, more confident and after his success last season is obviously in a better place to where he was this time last year?

 

I still think his long term future is away from here but while he remains a Wednesday player we have to get as much out of him as we possibly can.

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21 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

This, the role for Rhodes will be a similar one he had at Norwich, from the bench. If the game against Bury is rescheduled, then he may play in that  Those were the type of games he would start for Norwich

 

But haven't you been questioning where our goals are going to come from?

 

Play Rhodes like Norwich did and he'll get 5 or 6 in the season.

Play Fletcher alone up front and he won't be anywhere near replicating Pukki's 20+.

 

Like it or not, Rhodes is the most likely to hit 20 goals for us if we set up accordingly. Play to Fletcher's strengths, he gets 10-15. Play Fletcher and Rhodes as a pair with width, could well get us 30+ between them. That then begs the question, how do we set up behind?

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7 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

But haven't you been questioning where our goals are going to come from?

 

Play Rhodes like Norwich did and he'll get 5 or 6 in the season.

Play Fletcher alone up front and he won't be anywhere near replicating Pukki's 20+.

 

Like it or not, Rhodes is the most likely to hit 20 goals for us if we set up accordingly. Play to Fletcher's strengths, he gets 10-15. Play Fletcher and Rhodes as a pair with width, could well get us 30+ between them. That then begs the question, how do we set up behind?

Yes, though my main concerns re the strikers, were the individual threat they posed to the opposition Only Forestieri, and the departed Joao, were capable of creating opportunities themselves. As a pairing, I tend to agree with you, Fletcher and Rhodes would provide goals, but at what cost? We are stronger as a team, with just the one up front.  Yes I’d rather it be a Pukki, than a Fletcher, but we don’t have such a player, so we have to find another way of doing it. This way, we can remain solid, and if the other areas chip in, we can make it work.

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5 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

But haven't you been questioning where our goals are going to come from?

 

Play Rhodes like Norwich did and he'll get 5 or 6 in the season.

Play Fletcher alone up front and he won't be anywhere near replicating Pukki's 20+.

 

Like it or not, Rhodes is the most likely to hit 20 goals for us if we set up accordingly. Play to Fletcher's strengths, he gets 10-15. Play Fletcher and Rhodes as a pair with width, could well get us 30+ between them. That then begs the question, how do we set up behind?

 

And how we set up the midfield is probably our biggest quandary going forward. We now have out and out wingers in Harris and Murphy but we don't have a physical mobile presence available to us in the centre like Carlton Palmer used to give us years ago. Having someone like Palmer would release Bannan to dictate things like Sheridan used to and allow us to have genuine width down the flanks but for now we have what we have and getting the best out of Bannan and Lee is key for the foreseeable future.

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56 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

I'm one of those that think Rhodes has been harshly judged at Wednesday. With the right service, he'll thrive. With Harris and Murphy we now have the pace out wide (and hopefully, delivery) that should bring the best out of Rhodes. 

I'm sure the experts will put me right, but Rhodes operates best with a partner. I don't see him effective as a lone striker. Fletcher occupies the big centre half, creating space for Rhodes and the wide man to exploit.

 

So how do we set up to get the best out of Rhodes (I think the same analysis applies to Winnall too)?

 

Up front: Fletcher and Rhodes

Width, proving the ammo: Harris and Reach/Murphy

 

So that leaves two in midfield. I can't help thinking, that Harris and Murphy would leave us a bit light. So three at the back to allow three in the middle.

 

Midfield: three from Hutch, Luongo, Bannan, Lee.

Back three: Borner, Lees, Iorfa.

 

But three at the back? Didn't work under Jos, but then little did. Whilst 4-3-3 (4-5-1) keeps working, I can't see us reverting to a back three, and there won't be a starting place for Rhodes. So we'll continue to be disappointed.

Who needs full-backs anyway - always an overrated position!

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Can we just actually see how Rhodes is once on the pitch. He has been away so long and so it is hard to judge. But we have just signed wingers and centre midfielders. We may play 4-3-3/4-5-1 all season. If so then Fletch, Winnall, Rhodes and Nuhiu are all competing for the same slot up top. If Fletch stays fit i don't see Rhodes playing often and he may struggle to make the bench in front of Nuhiu, Winnall. If Kieran Lee and Hutch stay fit, i think we'll stick with 4-3-3. Which basically means Rhodes is a back up. I think we may end up debating how to get the best out of a player who plays some league cup games and comes on in 85th minute for Fletch often, that's it. I would be as happy as anyone else if suddenly the old 20 goal a season Rhodes returns from the past, i just don't see it, i think he should have gone out on loan or being sold. sorry.

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21 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

And how we set up the midfield is probably our biggest quandary going forward. We now have out and out wingers in Harris and Murphy but we don't have a physical mobile presence available to us in the centre like Carlton Palmer used to give us years ago. Having someone like Palmer would release Bannan to dictate things like Sheridan used to and allow us to have genuine width down the flanks but for now we have what we have and getting the best out of Bannan and Lee is key for the foreseeable future.

 

I agree that midfield set up is key. But that has a knock on with the back line. Unless Luongo proves to be our new Carlton Palmer (unlikely from what I've read) we'll continue with three in the middle. Which leave just three at the back (or just Fletch up front). I can't see us moving from a back four any time soon, but I think we should if we want to maximise potential up front.

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1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

Anyone that wants to disrupt the successful 4-3-3 for a 4-4-2 that neutralises our midfield and shoehorns in Rhodes wants their lumps feeling. Round pegs, round holes. That's how you win football matches (that and kicking the ball into the other team's net).

 

I agree, the 433/451 looks far and away our best system for now; it let's Bannan and Lee play without being over run in midfield, is extremely flexible with and without the ball and on the basis of last week could well be the best way for us to utilise Harris' pace. Rejigging the system just to fit in Rhodes would be daft.

 

While I think Rhodes would be too isolated to play the lone striker role away from home, I am quietly confident that when we play a more attacking 433 with the likes of Murphy, Reach, Harris and FF getting much closer to him, he may well rediscover his scoring boots.

 

Either way, Rhodes will have to play in the system rather than the system playing to Rhodes.

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1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

Anyone that wants to disrupt the successful 4-3-3 for a 4-4-2 that neutralises our midfield and shoehorns in Rhodes wants their lumps feeling. Round pegs, round holes. That's how you win football matches (that and kicking the ball into the other team's net).

So...what we need is a player who has proven ability to"kick the ball into the other teams net".......if only we had such an option.:unsure:

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1 minute ago, Hougoumont said:

So...what we need is a player who has proven ability to"kick the ball into the other teams net".......if only we had such an option.:unsure:

Ah but, such a player would have to help the team function as a unit, and we certainly don’t have one of those

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14 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

I agree that midfield set up is key. But that has a knock on with the back line. Unless Luongo proves to be our new Carlton Palmer (unlikely from what I've read) we'll continue with three in the middle. Which leave just three at the back (or just Fletch up front). I can't see us moving from a back four any time soon, but I think we should if we want to maximise potential up front.

You can't play a 3-3-4 tho.

 

We should stick with 4-3-3 as that is the formation best suited to our squad and our key players.  Rhodes will have to play the central striker role coming off the bench.

 

As a plan B we could switch to a 3-5-2 which gives us three central midfielders and a partner for Rhodes up front but our wingers become redundant in this system. 

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Guest Kagoshimaowl

Best thing to do with Rhodes is get him signing autographs for the kids in the stands. Totally past his best and useless in a 4-3-3 formation.

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Just now, gurujuan said:

Ah but, such a player would have to help the team function as a unit, and we certainly don’t have one of those

The thing is that StudentOwl was correct with his ball in net opinion...but it wasn't very well thought out as he was having a pop at Rhodes for not doing just that in his time at Wednesday, but there are reasons for that. We have to deal with reality and the fact is that Rhodes is a Wednesday player who has proved to be very good at "kicking the ball into other teams nets" over a long period and with different teams. So surely the answer is to create a system whereby he can do that for us. It's certainly not to chuck the baby out with the bath water.

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Guest Kagoshimaowl
16 minutes ago, Bing Cosby said:

 

I agree, the 433/451 looks far and away our best system for now; it let's Bannan and Lee play without being over run in midfield, is extremely flexible with and without the ball and on the basis of last week could well be the best way for us to utilise Harris' pace. Rejigging the system just to fit in Rhodes would be daft.

 

While I think Rhodes would be too isolated to play the lone striker role away from home, I am quietly confident that when we play a more attacking 433 with the likes of Murphy, Reach, Harris and FF getting much closer to him, he may well rediscover his scoring boots.

 

Either way, Rhodes will have to play in the system rather than the system playing to Rhodes.

Totally right but Lee will be benched soon. Luongo is a different gravy to biscuit legs. I love the Kieran Lee from 3 years ago but I’m not sure about the Kieran Lee now.

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