Salmonbones Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, Barry Smegson said: Comment from a Rangers mate of mine: "He's a good backs to the wall defender. Old school. Not great with the ball at his feet, but I haven't seen him since he left for germany. He was a fans favourite last season but he got injured and wasnt in the plans this season." I'd probably take that at Championship level. That puts him in the first team at Rangers at 20 too. That's kind of young, even for that level of football, so he's still developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Newsome Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, SiJ said: Tbf, I dont think Lees gets the credit for how good he was in the 2nd part of last season. Very much a partnership. I'm a massive fan of Lees always have been, hope he and Borner strike up a good partnership as the left foot right foot gives good balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe P. Coltrane Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 hours ago, MrTacoSWFC said: Look at that lovely ginger hair.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Lees Borner Bates Thorniley Iorfa can also play centre half zero concern about our strength in that position to be honest Id agree, we have plenty of cover at centre back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrysgame Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Peacenocchio said: Norman Bates? Well i think we have signed someone called Massive Umbongo or that's what it sounded like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhopping Owl Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Allow me to jump in on the "Hector was sh*t anyway" bandwagon Obviously I say that in jest, but splashing £5 million on him when we got another left-footed centre half who's looked rock solid so far for free just doesn't make any good business sense in my view. If we can get him for a vastly reduced fee in January or better still for free next summer then obviously go for it but I'm glad we've avoided the deadline day madness of previous years. I'm not sure how much sense this Bates deal makes when we've already got 5 centre halves (obviously our main pairing plus Iorfa, Thorniley and van Aken) as that seems enough to me, but it's a cheap deal and will definitely become a necessary one if Thorniley's injury problems continue and/or if Iorfa is seen by the management team as mainly an option for full back. Welcome to Wednesday David, hope you can join our ever-growing band of illustrious Scots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWLERTON GHOST Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Good business this is ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swfc-dan Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 37 minutes ago, Groundhopping Owl said: Allow me to jump in on the "Hector was sh*t anyway" bandwagon Obviously I say that in jest, but splashing £5 million on him when we got another left-footed centre half who's looked rock solid so far for free just doesn't make any good business sense in my view. If we can get him for a vastly reduced fee in January or better still for free next summer then obviously go for it but I'm glad we've avoided the deadline day madness of previous years. I'm not sure how much sense this Bates deal makes when we've already got 5 centre halves (obviously our main pairing plus Iorfa, Thorniley and van Aken) as that seems enough to me, but it's a cheap deal and will definitely become a necessary one if Thorniley's injury problems continue and/or if Iorfa is seen by the management team as mainly an option for full back. Welcome to Wednesday David, hope you can join our ever-growing band of illustrious Scots. I'm not sure that those other options are really that strong. I like Thorniley but he's still unproven to a large extent and could use a season loan playing regularly, Iorfa still has ?'s at CB, and Van Aken well...So I think Bates will be necessary 3rd choice if either defender is out, or even a drop in form. Our band of Scots must have been the main reason he chose us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 hours ago, StudentOwl said: We paid closer to half that, the £4m is an Owlstalk-made myth that most now think is reality. I'm sure I remember it being 4 million euros at the time, about £2.7million When it was converted,so just short of £3 mill and so far another expensive mistake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Hector was great on the ball and was imperious with some last ditch blocks in the six yard box at times. Did that very well for his size. But if we are changing our ways we need to keep fees and wages on a level and not get tempted by a fan favourite luxury player as we have done before. I think Hector is probably a better all round player than flint for example but Flint is a no nonsense and powerful defender, as is Shaun Morrison and Sonny Bradley at Luton is similar. Two of those three have gone for huge money and if Bates doesn’t do it I hope we keep an eye on Bradley’s contract situation as he would be a good one for us too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuttyTeabags Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 He walked 1,000 miles to get to Hillsborough, impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, shezzas left peg said: I'm sure I remember it being 4 million euros at the time, about £2.7million When it was converted,so just short of £3 mill and so far another expensive mistake. You're spot on, but forgetting that the £2.7m was also a total reached after installments and clauses, including fees based on number of appearances and a promotion clause. I'm not privy to exactly how that breaks down, but I think you can conservatively say that a fifth of that fee would be made up of fees paid upon x number of appearances and when Wednesday win promotion. So if you take a fifth off of £2.7m, you're getting pretty close to £2m... and an educated guess will tell you that it's unlikely all the appearance fees and promotion bonus that make up the transfer deal would be as little as a fifth of £2.7m, it's probably more... but at the end of the day it's probably better to be conservative with estimates than overdo it. But yeah, once you consider the deal in its entirety, it becomes blatantly obvious that it's nowhere near £4m (like you've shown), and once you've took off the various clauses that we know the bloke won't have fulfilled (appearances and promotion), it really isn't unreasonable to say that the £4m figure is probably pretty damn close to be double what we actually paid. Why does it matter? Well, because Hector has never been available for £2m either now and especially not then... so what's the point in bemoaning the JvA transfer preventing Hector joining, when JvA has been here two years and Hector wasn't available two years ago. You can only go for what's available, and it's really daft to bemoan the club for signing a CB we needed for not astronomical amounts of money and thinking "Well, if only we'd thought two years down the line". Yes, objectively it's been a bad transfer, but it's pointless club and Joost-bashing to perpetuate this £4m myth. Edited August 9, 2019 by StudentOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pussface Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 15 hours ago, torryowl said: Which is 500k more than we paid for him ...that's good profit Sure after signing on fees... wages... might have broken even if lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, StudentOwl said: You're spot on, but forgetting that the £2.7m was also a total reached after installments and clauses, including fees based on number of appearances and a promotion clause. I'm not privy to exactly how that breaks down, but I think you can conservatively say that a fifth of that fee would be made up of fees paid upon x number of appearances and when Wednesday win promotion. So if you take a fifth off of £2.7m, you're getting pretty close to £2m... and an educated guess will tell you that it's unlikely all the appearance fees and promotion bonus that make up the transfer deal would be as little as a fifth of £2.7m, it's probably more... but at the end of the day it's probably better to be conservative with estimates than overdo it. But yeah, once you consider the deal in its entirety, it becomes blatantly obvious that it's nowhere near £4m (like you've shown), and once you've took off the various clauses that we know the bloke won't have fulfilled (appearances and promotion), it really isn't unreasonable to say that the £4m figure is probably pretty damn close to be double what we actually paid. Why does it matter? Well, because Hector has never been available for £2m either now and especially not then... so what's the point in bemoaning the JvA transfer preventing Hector joining, when JvA has been here two years and Hector wasn't available two years ago. You can only go for what's available, and it's really daft to bemoan the club for signing a CB we needed for not astronomical amounts of money and thinking "Well, if only we'd thought two years down the line". Yes, objectively it's been a bad transfer, but it's pointless club and Joost-bashing to perpetuate this £4m myth. I'm not sure how much of it is angry pertaining hector. For me it's more the fact that during that summer there were very good championship experienced proven CBs like Dean and Roberts that were sold for around the same figure, but we somehow picked this kid?? Was it the same idiot that got us to buy urby and suoguo?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 memory is sh*t but i'm sure Hector was slated by other fans of his previous loan clubs when we got him -there will be a thread somewhere the point is some players just fit with clubs morrison didnt work here van aken has struggled hector finally clicked with a club and it was here hopefully Bates will be like Hector and not Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.. Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Bates seems like an excellent signing on a number of levels, not understanding the criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldensmoke Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Sounds a bit more promising https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/david-bates-who-is-hamburg-s-scotland-centre-back-ginger-ramos-2205 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookeh Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 18 hours ago, Quist said: For the record Bates is not shown as having missed any match last season due to injury, He was on bench for 6 or 7 games in a row and then played in penultimate match of last season where he was subbed at half time he did not make squad for last match of last season. I could not find any official confirmation of any injury this season and took part in pre season. He played a lot last season due to one of first choice centre backs being injured.. My comments were based on what he has achieved and perceived potential and I stand by them. I will be delighted if he turns out to be great. McKenna as indicated is highly rated by comparison. Hector we all know did well for us last season and played best football he has ever done. because googling is hard? https://www.hsv.de/en/news/meldungen/saison-2018-19/mai-2019/david-bates-suffers-a-part-rupture-in-ligament/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMOwl72 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 13 hours ago, OWLERTON GHOST said: Good business this is ..... .........although knives out for him already from Norman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwellOwl Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 It is always good to slate a player before they have even played a second for the club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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