I hope people finally realise the consequences of FFP now

[briggowl]

1 hour ago, TheEnchanter said:

Just saying. 

 

There's been plenty of people that have accepted our business over recent seasons. Plenty that have backed Chansiri over not selling anyone and NOT investing in the squad but instead letting it age and stagnate.

 

We've accepted it but not agreed or been happy with it. No one has backed it. You make it sound like it's up to us!

 

How do we not accept it? Shoes off?

[matthefish2002]

48 minutes ago, Hougoumont said:

Yet another veiled criticism of the Chairman. BTW...when did Brentford, Bristol and Derby get promoted recently... I must have missed it.

 

Nothing veiled about the OP, it was a clear criticism of the chairman.
Not the I disagree with it. Chansiri up to now been a bit out of his depth, will have to see going forward whether any lessons have been learned.
 

[TheEnchanter]

1 minute ago, billyblack said:

100%. FFP issue was all down to DC. Its caused us massive issues

 

Thankfully it looks like DC has learnt the hard way. Hopefully, like he has been doing in fairness to him, we can keep naking shrewd appointments on an off the pitch. If we do I'm confident we can get back to levels we were at a couple of years ago AND have learnt from the experience. 

[shandypants]

I think Mr C was between the Devil and the deep blue sea when he first took over. The squad was woefully lacking in quality when he bought the club with maybe four  (Westwood, Lees, Lee and Hutchinson) players of adequate standard which meant he had to get players in. 

 

I think the issue relates more to buying rubbish or “has been” players or buying players that we don’t necessarily need than it does to not selling. I agree that we should have sold as and when we could have but the fact is that we haven’t really had a lot of saleable assets outside a core of about three or four players. 

[TheEnchanter]

2 minutes ago, briggowl said:

 

We've accepted it but not agreed or been happy with it. No one has backed it. You make it sound like it's up to us!

 

How do we not accept it? Shoes off?

 

It was a dig at fans for the purposes of provoking this debate. I respect everyones views and know loads of people disagree but its actually worth debating it and against the odds this thread hasn't turned into a slanging match yet. 

 

Theres only @casbahowl that keeps laughing at my posts. 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by TheEnchanter

[briggowl]

Just now, TheEnchanter said:

 

It was a dig at fans for the purposes of provoking this debate. I respect everyones views and know loads of people disagree but its actually worth debating it and against the odds this thread hasn't turned into a slanging match yet. 

 

 DC is the sole person responsible for FFP. Hopefully he gets the consequences of signing has been premiership players and then the most expensive striker in our history (wage and fee) when we already have 6 others!!! Meanwhile we fans watch on (powerless) (sometimes in horror) hoping he's learned. 

 

Good debate

[TheEnchanter]

Just now, briggowl said:

 

 DC is the sole person responsible for FFP. Hopefully he gets the consequences of signing has been premiership players and then the most expensive striker in our history (wage and fee) when we already have 6 others!!! Meanwhile we fans watch on (powerless) (sometimes in horror) hoping he's learned. 

 

Good debate

 

It's true but thankfully because all that is in the past I'm optimistic that we've finally learnt. Selling Joao and Rhodes is a great start. 

[sherlyegg]

48 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Isn't that a bit ironic though. The more that have parachute payments actually proves that more of them don't get promoted... you can't deny the truth in that statement. 

Probably because they were poorly managed..they were relegated.

It's not just about bouncing straight back, it's the unfair advantage of paying wages with no immediate threat of ffp. This has a knock on effect where players in the champ. are vastly overvalued.

[Brommers]

1 hour ago, alanharper said:

 

Yet as the same time, in the year following the POF how much cash did we splurge on players who didn't improve and in many cases couldn't even get into the team?

 

Only Reach and Fletcher have been decent, how much did we waste on fees and wages for Abdi, Rhodes, Jones, Van Aken, Emmanuelson, McManaman, Buckley, Boyd, Winnall etc. ? Must be looking at easily north of £30m

You seem to forget the majority of our fanbase was pretty excited with a number of these signings.

[billyblack]

16 minutes ago, Brommers said:

You seem to forget the majority of our fanbase was pretty excited with a number of these signings.

Maybe, but its not the fans job to balance the books. Fans have every right to get excited by signings if they want to.

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

1 hour ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Plenty on here have supported Chansiri over his dire transfer record. 

 

I honestly can't recall anyone on here supporting us stockpiling players and not moving players on to refresh the squad.

[Bulldog]

1 hour ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Like I said above. All have healthier accounts. None have been in embargos. All have the opportunity then to keep investing in their teams. Which gives them a shot of promotion. We have stagnated and gone backwards in that time. Our players have aged and lost value. Instead these other clubs have been investing in their squads giving them a much greater chance in the future. We've had to lower the age of our squad and get rid of deadwood losing money on a lot of them. We've not had any money to bring in new players, we've managed to get Iorfa, Harris and Odubajo for free. Other clubs have been investing because they've had the money to do so. 

Is that because Derby sold their stadium to the chairman??

 

[marble]

1 hour ago, TheEnchanter said:

Just saying. 

 

There's been plenty of people that have accepted our business over recent seasons. Plenty that have backed Chansiri over not selling anyone and NOT investing in the squad but instead letting it age and stagnate. All the while other clubs have conducted business that has helped them turnover their squads in an attempt to get promoted again. If you look at it logically that is the only way to try and gain promotion, as sticking with the same bunch that have failed would be the definition of madness. Plus it has also seen many of their stocks fall in terms of value. People wonder why teams like Bristol, Brentford and Derby get top whack for players. Well, they have people at the club that negotiate well for their players AND they recognise the exact moment to sell and have ready made replacements to come in. Replacements that they also invest heavily in. 

 

Instead of blaming FFP and feeling sorry for ourselves we should have been manouvering our way through the transfer windows a lot more cleverly in recent seasons. Its been disappointing to see our 2 seasons of stagnation. 

 

Hopefully weve now learnt. We seem to have people behind the scenes that can negotiate deals for us now. Thank the lord. And also well done to Chansiri for finally seeing this. 

 

Lets get some deadwood out and sign some new, fresh faces. Add them to this fit, experienced bunch of top lads and have a real crack at reaching that top 6! 

I suppose this forum was full of your posts that urged caution when we were at Wembley, or heading for a top 4 finish the season after. Like many others you are a master of hindsight.

 

Having a dig at fans who have backed Chansiri would be fine if you'd been warning against the pitfalls from day 1, but you weren't.

[Striggy]

2 hours ago, TheEnchanter said:

Just saying. 

 

There's been plenty of people that have accepted our business over recent seasons. Plenty that have backed Chansiri over not selling anyone and NOT investing in the squad but instead letting it age and stagnate. All the while other clubs have conducted business that has helped them turnover their squads in an attempt to get promoted again. If you look at it logically that is the only way to try and gain promotion, as sticking with the same bunch that have failed would be the definition of madness. Plus it has also seen many of their stocks fall in terms of value. People wonder why teams like Bristol, Brentford and Derby get top whack for players. Well, they have people at the club that negotiate well for their players AND they recognise the exact moment to sell and have ready made replacements to come in. Replacements that they also invest heavily in. 

 

Instead of blaming FFP and feeling sorry for ourselves we should have been manouvering our way through the transfer windows a lot more cleverly in recent seasons. Its been disappointing to see our 2 seasons of stagnation. 

 

Hopefully weve now learnt. We seem to have people behind the scenes that can negotiate deals for us now. Thank the lord. And also well done to Chansiri for finally seeing this. 

 

Lets get some deadwood out and sign some new, fresh faces. Add them to this fit, experienced bunch of top lads and have a real crack at reaching that top 6! 

 

1.-But surely he has invested in the squad, its not selling that's been the problem, and some transfers that have not worked out.

2.- So a squad that got close cannot learn from the experience and improve then? if that's the case then 21 teams would change their squad every year and they would all get promoted 

 

 

[TheEnchanter]

3 minutes ago, marble said:

I suppose this forum was full of your posts that urged caution when we were at Wembley, or heading for a top 4 finish the season after. Like many others you are a master of hindsight.

 

Having a dig at fans who have backed Chansiri would be fine if you'd been warning against the pitfalls from day 1, but you weren't.

 

Doesn't matter what I think ultimately. I've had egg on my face so many times on here mate! 

[camffiti]

The massive spend up we supposedly had, to get into this mess, wasn't really a lot (comparatively)

 

The yearly losses has a little to do with over paying wages, but I bet others are paying more 

 

So the promble is lack of income (streams), that Katrien seemingly did f*ck all about

 

We haven't spent a lot in the last few windows, so shouldn't be running at such a big loss ... We need to up ticket prices and create more club deals 

 

 

 

[Stoop]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

It’s not FFP, it’s wasting money on rubbish players

Exactly 

 

Someone pointed out the other day the total cost of the starting 11 against Reading and it was about £5m. The real money has been sat in the stands doing nowt for the past 3 years 

[Dandrewchaz]

For me I think we've learned slightly later than possible but Harris and Borner have hopefully demonstrated to the higher ups that quality is available on a free so I'd suggest we are moving forward. We'll now go and blow £30M on Luke Varney...……. One question how on Earth are Derby staying with FFP and attracting Wayne Rooney?

[Musn't Grumble]

2 hours ago, The only way is S6 said:

 

For every pigs success there's plenty in the same boat as us. Leeds, Derby, etc

 

Given the news last night that Derby are in for Rooney (who won't exactly be cheap especially as he has got two years left of a lucrative MLS contract) and given all their previous shenanigans, it wouldn't surprise me that, if the Rams don't get promotion at the end of this season, they will become the latest FFP basketcase.

[farlego]

I think a lot of it comes down to the fact we were signing players on paper who would have been regulars in most teams but we were hit with devastating injuries or just didn't work out. Not necessarily bad signings.

 

The big names/signings/ earners

 

Abdi pretty much injured his whole time. in theory would have been in the starting line up

Hooper. One of the first names on the team sheet but too many injuries.

Boyd. Good signing on the face of it but legs had gone.

Winnall. Good value signing at the time

JVA. Unknown how he would have developed once he had mastered the English game before his injury.

Rhodes. Potentially would have fired us to promotion but just hasn't worked out.

Jones. Just didn't get enough game time to prove himself. I thought he was better than perceived by many and became a scapegoat.

 

I accept that a number of our signings were getting toward the end of their career and on that basis surely our medical team should have done more stringent testing.