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TheEnchanter

I hope people finally realise the consequences of FFP now

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The consequence of perpetuating a flawed system as is FFP/P&S only leads to an unfair competition. 

 

As premier league failure payments increase FFP restrictions do not, clubs outside the recently relegated have to spend beyond their means, just to stand still, with increasingly diminishing returns on investment. 

 

While the EFL were complicit in ratifying upwards of a dozen signings by Bolton last year, knowing full well their financial position, leading to most of them not being paid for several months, still seek to enforce arbitrary spending limits for clubs who have evidenced proof of funds to cover losses from wealthy owners, while letting others spend freely. 

 

The further consequence is that the EFL preside over the likes of Bury facing extinction and many more L1&2 clubs struggling as FFP has cut off much of the transfer spending by Championship clubs to the lower leagues.

 

We've put our house in order and it cost us the sale of our ground, like Derby, and pleased we are now aiming to operate in a more sustainable fashion. 

 

I dont blame DC as much as I do consider the EFL unfit for purpose. 

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1 minute ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Where do you think we'd go in terms of improving our squad then? 

 

We have an ageing squad that have failed and finished mid table for 2 years. 

 

With what money do we improve it? How do we start competing with top teams? 

 

You HAVE to start manouvering the transfer window for a few years to gain momentum. Yes Bristol have sold a centre back for £20M. Yes that weakened them. But they then bought one for £8M from Chelsea with proven quality at this level. We on the other hand are going to be very lucky if Borner is a good player. 

 

Apply that same model all over the team and you see that other clubs are able to continually invest in their squad and we have stopped investing in ours for years. I don't see how people think we are going in the right direction transfer wise. Literally who are you expecting us to sign to try and reach the top 6? 

 

Because of the silly FFP rules, we need to blood some of our youngsters, gradually. They're cheap. Because of FFP, we now have to sell before we buy. Only if somebody wants to buy though. Otherwise, you go with what you have. Because of FFP / embargo, we couldn't wheel & deal all summer. We should go into the free agent market. There's a list as long as your arm of unemployed pro footballers. 

But we're pssing about like this because our chairman can't spend on a par with other clubs who are rewarded for relegation from the PL. How on earth is that fair? Like we said earlier, what Bristol, Derby & Brentford do means nothing. They finished nowhere same as us. 

 

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6 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

So what do we do then? Sit and cry about it. If we go up we can look forward to those 'benefits' too. 

 

Seriously though in the last 11 years only 9 out of 33 teams have bounced straight back. 

 

Well no. We keep trying. We copy Derby & sell the stadium. We create income from a major shirt sponsor. We utilise Thornily & Penney & then sell them for big profits, if we don't go up. We do whatever we can within the fkng stupid rules, to try & get promoted,  while those that come down count the cash & spend it when & how they like. 

That's for 3 years each too. Not just one.

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6 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Isn't that a bit ironic though. The more that have parachute payments actually proves that more of them don't get promoted... you can't deny the truth in that statement. 

 

Maths ain’t my strong point but if more teams have parachute payments and only 3 clubs can still get promoted then more teams with the payments are going to fail to get promoted.

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Paxo can finally get his hands on some percentages now the coast is clear and we've got some room to manouvre. 

 

It smells of a deal for Ibrahim Affelay or Michael Van Ginkel :laugh:

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5 minutes ago, The only way is S6 said:

 

Because of the silly FFP rules, we need to blood some of our youngsters, gradually. They're cheap. Because of FFP, we now have to sell before we buy. Only if somebody wants to buy though. Otherwise, you go with what you have. Because of FFP / embargo, we couldn't wheel & deal all summer. We should go into the free agent market. There's a list as long as your arm of unemployed pro footballers. 

But we're pssing about like this because our chairman can't spend on a par with other clubs who are rewarded for relegation from the PL. How on earth is that fair? Like we said earlier, what Bristol, Derby & Brentford do means nothing. They finished nowhere same as us. 

 

 

I was pleased we had done a bit of good business early with the 3 freebies this year of decent quality, i wouldn't have been surprised if a few more were lined up.

 

Mostly due to Bruce's contacts and know how

 

Him going and DC not being the brightest button on these matters has held us back again

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Said many times im not against selling anyone .be it bannan ,lees ,reach etc

What ever the panic mob say they are replaceable 

Find it laughable how people can't understand how we aint doing better when we continue to have failures throughout team 

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46 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

Just saying. 

 

There's been plenty of people that have accepted our business over recent seasons. Plenty that have backed Chansiri over not selling anyone and NOT investing in the squad but instead letting it age and stagnate. All the while other clubs have conducted business that has helped them turnover their squads in an attempt to get promoted again. If you look at it logically that is the only way to try and gain promotion, as sticking with the same bunch that have failed would be the definition of madness. Plus it has also seen many of their stocks fall in terms of value. People wonder why teams like Bristol, Brentford and Derby get top whack for players. Well, they have people at the club that negotiate well for their players AND they recognise the exact moment to sell and have ready made replacements to come in. Replacements that they also invest heavily in. 

 

Instead of blaming FFP and feeling sorry for ourselves we should have been manouvering our way through the transfer windows a lot more cleverly in recent seasons. Its been disappointing to see our 2 seasons of stagnation. 

 

Hopefully weve now learnt. We seem to have people behind the scenes that can negotiate deals for us now. Thank the lord. And also well done to Chansiri for finally seeing this. 

 

Lets get some deadwood out and sign some new, fresh faces. Add them to this fit, experienced bunch of top lads and have a real crack at reaching that top 6! 

 

In think you are playing the right notes...

But not necessarily in the right order....

 

Embargos and profit are meaningless. They are outputs not outcomes. If you are saying that our business model didn't get us promoted then of course you are (narrowly) right. But as mentioned, neither did the model you put forward - Bristol Brentford Derby.

Wolves - United - Huddersfield - Cardiff all did it different ways but non of those teams sold their best players on season after season.

 

Our primary target is to get promoted not to be a stable Championship club.

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47 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Plenty on here have supported Chansiri over his dire transfer record. 

 

They really haven't.

 

But push this myth all ya want. The lack of selling has been consistently criticised on here.

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I think we all accept there was mistakes made in the 1st 2 and a half seasons under Chansiri. I think he now knows this and is going a different way. Also it almost worked, we were at the play-off final and were close again the season after. If Wolves, Bournemouth, Villa, Newcastle, Leicester didn't get up then they would have been in trouble for a while too. It was a gamble, it didn't work. Move on.

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Just now, torres said:

 

I was pleased we had done a bit of good business early with the 3 freebies this year of decent quality, i wouldn't have been surprised if a few more were lined up.

 

Mostly due to Bruce's contacts and know how

 

Him going and DC not being the brightest button on these matters has held us back again

 

Maybe so, but the drip feeding & timing of the info was due to the embargo. (Which was a result of us trying to compete in earlier years) Which restricted our transfer activity until lately. Ironically, I watched Udders on tv last night & they need far more players bringing in than us, they must be loaded and have done nothing this summer. 

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I don’t understand the whole ffp stuff, how come chansiri did the selling ground dodgy deal thingy but we’re still under embargo . We don’t seem equipped for a promotion push this year so should he have taken the points deduction then splashed the cash next year?? Or doesn’t it work like that. 

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15 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Isn't that a bit ironic though. The more that have parachute payments actually proves that more of them don't get promoted... you can't deny the truth in that statement. 

That makes no sense at all ......... Norwich & Villa went up last season purely and simply because of failure payments......... that still leaves 8 teams in this years championship with a totally unfair advantage.

If this continues there will always be a minimum of 8 teams massively advantaged over the other 16!

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55 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

Plenty on here have supported Chansiri over his dire transfer record. 

End of day it's his money....

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3 minutes ago, casbahowl said:

That makes no sense at all ......... Norwich & Villa went up last season purely and simply because of failure payments......... that still leaves 8 teams in this years championship with a totally unfair advantage.

If this continues there will always be a minimum of 8 teams massively advantaged over the other 16!

 

So whats the end result? I'd rather us try our best to improve our squad and get promotion. The likes of the pigs, Cardiff, Huddersfield etc have done it in recent seasons. Plus you can point to Norwich but they actually sold the likesof Maddison and Murphy the season before. 

 

Honestly I don't understand why so many people sit their crying about it. Im sure other clubs were crying about us spending beyond our means for a few years too. Theres plenty that have been outraged by our stadium dealings. 

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59 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

Just saying. 

 

There's been plenty of people that have accepted our business over recent seasons. Plenty that have backed Chansiri over not selling anyone and NOT investing in the squad but instead letting it age and stagnate. All the while other clubs have conducted business that has helped them turnover their squads in an attempt to get promoted again. If you look at it logically that is the only way to try and gain promotion, as sticking with the same bunch that have failed would be the definition of madness. Plus it has also seen many of their stocks fall in terms of value. People wonder why teams like Bristol, Brentford and Derby get top whack for players. Well, they have people at the club that negotiate well for their players AND they recognise the exact moment to sell and have ready made replacements to come in. Replacements that they also invest heavily in. 

 

Instead of blaming FFP and feeling sorry for ourselves we should have been manouvering our way through the transfer windows a lot more cleverly in recent seasons. Its been disappointing to see our 2 seasons of stagnation. 

 

Hopefully weve now learnt. We seem to have people behind the scenes that can negotiate deals for us now. Thank the lord. And also well done to Chansiri for finally seeing this. 

 

Lets get some deadwood out and sign some new, fresh faces. Add them to this fit, experienced bunch of top lads and have a real crack at reaching that top 6! 

 

Or you could say, as perhaps Bristol City, Brentford and Derby fans do: "People wonder why getting top whack for players doesn't even get you into the play-offs, let alone promoted?

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Just now, owlandished said:

 

Or you could say, as perhaps Bristol City, Brentford and Derby fans do: "People wonder why getting top whack for players doesn't even get you into the play-offs, let alone promoted?

 

For Bristol its because they have Lee Johnson as manager to be fair. They'll never go up with him. 

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We are at last going to live in the real world rather than one where we gamble and collect players like toys.

 

I’m sure the chairman knows he’s made some big mistakes but it’s cost him dearly financially. He must be £120m plus in the hole currently. 

 

We are lucky that he’ll keep funding the club, way too deep in now to turn back I guess. 

 

I’m glad we are looking at selling players. It’s the only way for the club to be self sustaining in the future. It’s no good for the Chairman or fans to have an unsustainable business losing £20-30m a year. 

 

Sell Rhodes, sell Joao, bring £10m in for them. Recruit a left back and pacy forward/winger on frees or loans from Premier League clubs and we’ll be fine.

 

Perhaps we’ll stand on our own two feet rather than needing constant hand outs and being under FFP pressures. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheEnchanter said:

Just saying. 

 

There's been plenty of people that have accepted our business over recent seasons. Plenty that have backed Chansiri over not selling anyone and NOT investing in the squad but instead letting it age and stagnate. All the while other clubs have conducted business that has helped them turnover their squads in an attempt to get promoted again. If you look at it logically that is the only way to try and gain promotion, as sticking with the same bunch that have failed would be the definition of madness. Plus it has also seen many of their stocks fall in terms of value. People wonder why teams like Bristol, Brentford and Derby get top whack for players. Well, they have people at the club that negotiate well for their players AND they recognise the exact moment to sell and have ready made replacements to come in. Replacements that they also invest heavily in. 

 

Instead of blaming FFP and feeling sorry for ourselves we should have been manouvering our way through the transfer windows a lot more cleverly in recent seasons. Its been disappointing to see our 2 seasons of stagnation. 

 

Hopefully weve now learnt. We seem to have people behind the scenes that can negotiate deals for us now. Thank the lord. And also well done to Chansiri for finally seeing this. 

 

Lets get some deadwood out and sign some new, fresh faces. Add them to this fit, experienced bunch of top lads and have a real crack at reaching that top 6! 

100%. FFP issue was all down to DC. Its caused us massive issues

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1 minute ago, RichSheffWeds said:

We are at last going to live in the real world rather than one where we gamble and collect players like toys.

 

I’m sure the chairman knows he’s made some big mistakes but it’s cost him dearly financially. He must be £120m plus in the hole currently. 

 

We are lucky that he’ll keep funding the club, way too deep in now to turn back I guess. 

 

I’m glad we are looking at selling players. It’s the only way for the club to be self sustaining in the future. It’s no good for the Chairman or fans to have an unsustainable business losing £20-30m a year. 

 

Sell Rhodes, sell Joao, bring £10m in for them. Recruit a left back and pacy forward/winger on frees or loans from Premier League clubs and we’ll be fine.

 

Perhaps we’ll stand on our own two feet rather than needing constant hand outs and being under FFP pressures. 

 

 

 

Its harsh words but true ones. A lot of people don't want to hear it. They'd rather we keep spending then wonder why FFP are after us and also get upset about how its not a level playing field. 

 

I'd rather take action and deal with it. Improve our squad each year and stand on our own 2 feet as you say. Its no fun being in an embargo. No fun at all. 

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