Ben Marshall

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Which is why having someone like Marshall who can deliver pinpoint balls makes sense.

I think, without rebuilding the whole midfield, we leave things as they are, as a three. Yes we need more cover there, but that’s the system that gives us the control we will need when playing sides better than the likes of Northampton. 

Beyond that is the conundrum for me. As I see it, we have a few interchangeable options, which is good. We could play with two wingers wide of a central striker. Or maybe one out and out winger, and a wide attacker, like Forestieri or Joao. We can even play one winger, with Forestieri in a number ten role. It’s unlikely that we could play one winger and have a pair of strikers in the middle, as we would be too lop sided The only way we could do that, would be to do what we did under Carlos, and push Bannan out to wide left. All those permutations keep the shape, and make us fairly solid. 

The big issue, as I see it, with the current personnel is, there are not enough goals in the side. There won’t be many from that midfield three, although Lee will help in that regard. None of the wingers really score goals, although, you might get double figures if Reach, Joao or Forestieri were used in that role. Fletcher remains the only realistic option for the strikers role, but even with increased service, he isn’t going to be prolific. So, in my opinion, the way to change that, without major surgery, is to bring in a wide attacker who can match the goals output of Fletcher, so not somebody like Marshall

[Bluesteel]

1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

 

How many do we need though? We are mainly talking about one spot here, as for the most part, I think it will be Forestieri, Joao or a yet unsigned wide attacker playing down the left. On the right, it will be Reach and Harris fighting it out for the other wing berth, with Odubajo an outside bet. Don’t think we need any more than three players for each position, it’s overkill.

 

Odubajo hasn’t been primarily signed to play rw. We are lacking in wide players whereby that is their primary position. We have others who can fill the spot but it’s not their natural position. 

 

I suspect we might sell Joao too.

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Bluesteel said:

 

Odubajo hasn’t been primarily signed to play rw. We are lacking in wide players whereby that is their primary position. We have others who can fill the spot but it’s not their natural position. 

 

I suspect we might sell Joao too.

Selling Joao, and replacing him with flipping Ben Marshall, doesn’t actually suggest progress

[yeadonowl]

Joao was completely disinterested yesterday and if he is like that going into the season then we’d be better getting rid

[Lord Snooty]

8 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I think, without rebuilding the whole midfield, we leave things as they are, as a three. Yes we need more cover there, but that’s the system that gives us the control we will need when playing sides better than the likes of Northampton. 

Beyond that is the conundrum for me. As I see it, we have a few interchangeable options, which is good. We could play with two wingers wide of a central striker. Or maybe one out and out winger, and a wide attacker, like Forestieri or Joao. We can even play one winger, with Forestieri in a number ten role. It’s unlikely that we could play one winger and have a pair of strikers in the middle, as we would be too lop sided The only way we could do that, would be to do what we did under Carlos, and push Bannan out to wide left. All those permutations keep the shape, and make us fairly solid. 

 

The big issue, as I see it, with the current personnel is, there are not enough goals in the side. There won’t be many from that midfield three, although Lee will help in that regard. None of the wingers really score goals, although, you might get double figures if Reach, Joao or Forestieri were used in that role. Fletcher remains the only realistic option for the strikers role, but even with increased service, he isn’t going to be prolific. So, in my opinion, the way to change that, without major surgery, is to bring in a wide attacker who can match the goals output of Fletcher, so not somebody like Marshall

 

But do you not think that much of whether the team scores goals or not depends on whether the manager has an attacking mentality or a defensive mentality as much as the players he has?

You can see a 4-3-3 under Klopp destroy teams and a 4-3-3 under Mourinho choke a game to death. 

Mourinho has strangled games to death with attacking talent like Ibrahimovich and Eto playing like defenders!

 

I don't think we can really say that none of our wingers will score goals until we know whether the new manager is going to give them the freedom to do so.

Under Mourinho, Pulis. Probably not. under Klopp or Gaurdiola. Yes.

 

We've been down the avenue before of just signing players hoping they score the goals to get us over the line. It was Carlos' big gamble on Hooper. Then Fletcher.  Latterly with Rhodes.

But if you don't attack teams you won't score. Doesn't matter who you have up front or what their previous goals record.

You could have Alan Shearer and Gary Linker up front not scoring under Jos and Carlos.

 

For me it's more about mentality.

 

I hope we get an attacking manager. Because I genuinely think we have the players to attack.

[dorian gray]

23 hours ago, keepitsteel89 said:

I wonder where he's got that from

the past 7 years preseasons on owlstalk?

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

But do you not think that much of whether the team scores goals or not depends on whether the manager has an attacking mentality or a defensive mentality as much as the players he has?

You can see a 4-3-3 under Klopp destroy teams and a 4-3-3 under Mourinho choke a game to death. 

Mourinho has strangled games to death with attacking talent like Ibrahimovich and Eto playing like defenders!

 

I don't think we can really say that none of our wingers will score goals until we know whether the new manager is going to give them the freedom to do so.

Under Mourinho, Pulis. Probably not. under Klopp or Gaurdiola. Yes.

 

We've been down the avenue before of just signing players hoping they score the goals to get us over the line. It was Carlos' big gamble on Hooper. Then Fletcher.  Latterly with Rhodes.

But if you don't attack teams you won't score. Doesn't matter who you have up front or what their previous goals record.

You could have Alan Shearer and Gary Linker up front not scoring under Jos and Carlos.

 

For me it's more about mentality.

 

I hope we get an attacking manager. Because I genuinely think we have the players to attack.

Yes fair point about the systems and tactics, but I was basing it on the personnel There is no history of those individuals ever scoring the goals needed. It’s not in their game. 

[hangonrose]

23 hours ago, Quist said:

League 1 player and think this illustrates Bullen is not manager material. Just going back to a player who played well for us in league 1.

Let's face it, we're not interested in Ben Marshall....Poor old Lee Bullen gets castigated on the back of one journo's teaser.  Lee Bullen has NO say in buying players at this time...
Time we supported Bullen 100% for doing his present job with his current players.  Seems OK at the moment...

[kingsidney]

11 hours ago, Bouncing Owl said:

7 years ago, yes but not now! I’d rather us go for a wide attacker with pace who has goals in his locker. 

I’d rather be driving a Ferrari. 

[Bluesteel]

32 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Selling Joao, and replacing him with flipping Ben Marshall, doesn’t actually suggest progress

 

Predicted that response but  you’re not comparing like for like. 

 

Ben Marshall is miles more effective than Joao at doing what a winger should do ie working up and down the flank, getting crosses over and delivering dead balls.

 

Joao is a quality dribbler when given the space to do so/ when he’s up for it but I’m not sure he’s that comfortable on the wing week in week out. He’s a striker first and foremost and we are trying to find somewhere to play him. 

 

I think losing joao would be a blow as we’d lose some pace in the channels and a good goal scorer.

 

But if we need to sell him to address FFP and bring in Hector then signing Marshall on a free to feed different kind of strikers to get the best of them does make more sense.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Bluesteel

[dorian gray]

41 minutes ago, yeadonowl said:

Joao was completely disinterested yesterday and if he is like that going into the season then we’d be better getting rid

what do you mean by 'yesterday'?

[gurujuan]

9 minutes ago, Bluesteel said:

 

Predicted that response but  you’re not comparing like for like. 

 

Ben Marshall is miles more effective than Joao at doing what a winger should do ie working up and down the flank, getting crosses over and delivering dead balls.

 

Joao is a quality dribbler when given the space to do so/ when he’s up for it but I’m not sure he’s that comfortable on the wing week in week out. He’s a striker first and foremost and we are trying to find somewhere to play him. 

 

I think losing joao would be a blow as we’d lose some pace in the channels and a good goal scorer.

 

But if we need to sell him to address FFP and bring in Hector then signing Marshall on a free to feed different kind of strikers to get the best of them does make more sense.

Selling players for financial fair play reasons, well that’s completely different. However, were we do to that, we’d be better off bringing in a quick striker on loan, rather than trying to turn the clock back with Marshall

[dorian gray]

23 minutes ago, kingsidney said:

I’d rather be driving a Ferrari. 

i'd rather own Ferrari.

[Bluesteel]

1 minute ago, gurujuan said:

Selling players for financial fair play reasons, well that’s completely different. However, were we do to that, we’d be better off bringing in a quick striker on loan, rather than trying to turn the clock back with Marshall

 

Maybe we’d end up doing both. But as per the interview yesterday it was suggested we wanted a winger central mid and centre half and that we already had more than enough strikers.

[dorian gray]

41 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

But do you not think that much of whether the team scores goals or not depends on whether the manager has an attacking mentality or a defensive mentality as much as the players he has?

You can see a 4-3-3 under Klopp destroy teams and a 4-3-3 under Mourinho choke a game to death. 

Mourinho has strangled games to death with attacking talent like Ibrahimovich and Eto playing like defenders!

 

I don't think we can really say that none of our wingers will score goals until we know whether the new manager is going to give them the freedom to do so.

Under Mourinho, Pulis. Probably not. under Klopp or Gaurdiola. Yes.

 

We've been down the avenue before of just signing players hoping they score the goals to get us over the line. It was Carlos' big gamble on Hooper. Then Fletcher.  Latterly with Rhodes.

But if you don't attack teams you won't score. Doesn't matter who you have up front or what their previous goals record.

You could have Alan Shearer and Gary Linker up front not scoring under Jos and Carlos.

 

For me it's more about mentality.

 

I hope we get an attacking manager. Because I genuinely think we have the players to attack.

we won't know until we try it.

[dorian gray]

Just now, Bluesteel said:

 

Maybe we’d end up doing both. But as per the interview yesterday it was suggested we wanted a winger central mid and centre half and that we already had more than enough strikers.

true we have numbers in the striker dept.

but we're not sure of the quality of those numbers.

we have the numbers 'cos we've shifted no ****er on ever.

[Lord Snooty]

35 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Yes fair point about the systems and tactics, but I was basing it on the personnel There is no history of those individuals ever scoring the goals needed. It’s not in their game. 

 

Well to be fair Rhodes has (But we'll not go down that rabbithole!)

 

I take your point on the others.  But I look at the ability that players like forestieri and Reach have, Joao.  In a team that doesn't play 343,282 passes across it's own 18 yard box before they move it forward I think we'd see goals.

Forestieri has it in his locker certainly. Joao's record is decent for such an inigma. 

I mean, Fletch got 11 last season in an absolute clusterfeck of a year.   I think he can hit 15-18 goals this season if we go for it in a positive manner. 

He looks a different beast. 

[prowl]

2 hours ago, OWLS about that? said:

Afraid not but Nixon tweeted that a deal for Kluivert is close 

Can you post it because I must have missed it?

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Well to be fair Rhodes has (But we'll not go down that rabbithole!)

 

I take your point on the others.  But I look at the ability that players like forestieri and Reach have, Joao.  In a team that doesn't play 343,282 passes across it's own 18 yard box before they move it forward I think we'd see goals.

Forestieri has it in his locker certainly. Joao's record is decent for such an inigma. 

I mean, Fletch got 11 last season in an absolute clusterfeck of a year.   I think he can hit 15-18 goals this season if we go for it in a positive manner. 

He looks a different beast. 

The players you mention, Forestieri, Reach, Joao, and even Fletcher, have what it takes to create a pretty dynamic attacking force, under the right manager. 

[Lord Snooty]

6 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

we won't know until we try it.