Official: Accounts published

[Gerinako]

Lol - continue to be happy with the shambles and praise the light shining out of his...

 

if you like

 

if you cant see a problem then that’s on you

Edited July 11, 2019 by Gerinako

[casbahowl]

2 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Sorry @casbahowlyou’re right to disagree. It’s a sign of a really well run club. Silly me.

 

 

 

Yes, silly you!

[Dick_Turpin]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

No it's a way out of the hole 

 

But I suppose the fear is simply another hole will be dug and then what 

 

Just hope we are on an even keel in terms of staying within the limits. It's not so much the loss we have made but the chronic waste of that money on questionable signings 

 

But I am not the one who has averaged putting in 800k a week 

The football finance guy you don’t like says

 

The accounts insist that Hillsborough was sold for around £60m during 2017/18 – delivering a profit of £38m – but they do not indicate to whom, and according to the Land Registry, the club still own the stadium. What’s more, the accounts do not indicate that any cash was brought in after the sale. 

 

When I’ve looked at the accounts of both Derby and Villa, I’ve seen that they’ve sold the stadium and then pretty much straight away received the cash. Sheffield Wednesday appear to have sold the stadium, we don’t know yet to whom, and they don’t appear to have been given the cash. Though it could be that that cash has now been received.

 

He also says precedent of Derby and Villa means stadium sale should be approved. What do you make of it overall?  

[bradowl]

To lose this amount of money during one season is proof that one person was right about players being on £40k per week. 

[bradowl]

1 hour ago, rob1601 said:

I’m still amazed our average wage is around 20k a week. That’s insane for the quality of player on offer 

 

I’m still struggling to see why the wage bill went up so much (12m was it?) when we only signed Rhodes, Boyd, Van Aken, Pelupessy and Venancio for 17\18 season. 

 

If Rhodes was 40k a week, that’s ‘only’ 2m a year. Where has the rest gone?

 

Attendances took a dive and we wasn't selected for sky coverage as much. 

It soon adds up. 

[Guest mkowl]

28 minutes ago, teddybeararmy said:

Hi mk, without generating some income in the next couple of weeks, how likely are we to break the rolling 39m p&s limit with the 18-19 accounts 

Impossible for me to answer as I have no idea what the monthly run rate is going to be on payroll. All the other costs are insignificant in the grand scheme of things bar the spreading of the player transfer fees over their contract. 

 

On face value we have about 20m of scope in losses. 

 

For the last 12 months to 31st July 2019 I can only think it will be tight. You do have to tweak the numbers for a 12 month not 14 month period saying that. But operationally nothing seems to have changed much, Rhodes out on loan and an extra payment for Norwich being promoted might make a difference. 

[Mobley]

6 hours ago, mkowl said:

 

No 

 

Unfortunately in accounts there is a world of difference between money going in and out of a bank account and whether that counts as revenue and expenditure

 

Sorry I appreciate for folk this is all appears bjollocks but flip them it pays my mortgage 

And mine! £££££££

[rob1601]

2 minutes ago, bradowl said:

 

Attendances took a dive and we wasn't selected for sky coverage as much. 

It soon adds up. 

The 12m was the wage section not combined income. Where did we add that? We hardly bought anyone

[prowl]

8 hours ago, mkowl said:

 

Going by a quick check our accounting losses are now

 

May 2016  £9.6m

May 2017 £20m

July 2018 Profit £2m

 

So say £28m - caveat is this is not necessarily the FFP position but nearest we will know 

 

So £9.6m will drop out but July 2019 figures will add in 

 

Given the changes are only in the summer 2019 then I can see a loss of £20m easily for the season just finished - with no Plan B (well we could sell the training ground !)

 

I think just plodding along we will be upto the FFP limits on a rolling basis 

But they also look at the projection for the next year (2019/20). That will show we have taken steps to rectify the situation. Less transfer fees to amortise and a big chunk of the wage bill gone.

 

How much credit that 'forward projection' will get us is anybody's guess.

[jamese]

4 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Impossible for me to answer as I have no idea what the monthly run rate is going to be on payroll. All the other costs are insignificant in the grand scheme of things bar the spreading of the player transfer fees over their contract. 

 

On face value we have about 20m of scope in losses. 

 

For the last 12 months to 31st July 2019 I can only think it will be tight. You do have to tweak the numbers for a 12 month not 14 month period saying that. But operationally nothing seems to have changed much, Rhodes out on loan and an extra payment for Norwich being promoted might make a difference. 

Rhodes being out on loan could be anywhere between 1.5m and 2m off the wage bill, depending on the exact deal. 

[alleycat]

If Dave RIchards or Dave Allen had “sold” the ground this place would be in uproar.

 

Whether you agree with the ground being sold or not the reason he’s had to do it is due to some of the abysmal business decisions that have been made over the last three years or so.

 

It really is shit or bust time now. If “we were going to be in big trouble” if we didn’t go up last season then I dread to think where we’ll be this season if we don’t go up as we’re running out of family silver to sell to even get close to balancing the books.

[Guest mkowl]

12 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

The football finance guy you don’t like says

 

The accounts insist that Hillsborough was sold for around £60m during 2017/18 – delivering a profit of £38m – but they do not indicate to whom, and according to the Land Registry, the club still own the stadium. What’s more, the accounts do not indicate that any cash was brought in after the sale. 

 

When I’ve looked at the accounts of both Derby and Villa, I’ve seen that they’ve sold the stadium and then pretty much straight away received the cash. Sheffield Wednesday appear to have sold the stadium, we don’t know yet to whom, and they don’t appear to have been given the cash. Though it could be that that cash has now been received.

 

He also says precedent of Derby and Villa means stadium sale should be approved. What do you make of it overall?  

True that the cash was not received as the year end date.

 

The accounts imply 7.5m will be received within one year and the rest after that. 

 

Would have to re-look at the Derby accounts, not seen Villas

 

Right that it does not say who has bought it, just a related party has.

 

It's a guess but the thought is the delay was because the EFL have reviewed it. But the accounts are the accounts they aren't approved by the EFL per se

[room0035]

1 minute ago, mkowl said:

Impossible for me to answer as I have no idea what the monthly run rate is going to be on payroll. All the other costs are insignificant in the grand scheme of things bar the spreading of the player transfer fees over their contract. 

 

On face value we have about 20m of scope in losses. 

 

For the last 12 months to 31st July 2019 I can only think it will be tight. You do have to tweak the numbers for a 12 month not 14 month period saying that. But operationally nothing seems to have changed much, Rhodes out on loan and an extra payment for Norwich being promoted might make a difference. 

Based on the accounts filed no real change last season until the end of the season in incomes or outgoings.

 

 

we probably won't amortise as many players contracts but we could be looking at a loss of £15-20m.

 

the wage bill is £35-40m+ with turnover of £28m add to that the running costs of the club sacking Jos, giving Bruce and staff big contracts. We need to get in an additional £5-10m this year, or in a season or two we are back in P&S Trouble.

 

the compo for Bruce could come in very handy if it's anywhere near the £5m quoted in the press.

[Guest mkowl]

4 minutes ago, rob1601 said:

The 12m was the wage section not combined income. Where did we add that? We hardly bought anyone

Player additions were over 12m 

 

Not to say we laid out that in cash immediately, you normally pay in instalments but the full cost is recorded 

[myHero]

9 hours ago, Kanye West said:

https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2019/july/annual-accounts-published_2018/

A good day to bury bad news maybe?

[Guest mkowl]

4 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Based on the accounts filed no real change last season until the end of the season in incomes or outgoings.

 

 

we probably won't amortise as many players contracts but we could be looking at a loss of £15-20m.

 

the wage bill is £35-40m+ with turnover of £28m add to that the running costs of the club sacking Jos, giving Bruce and staff big contracts. We need to get in an additional £5-10m this year, or in a season or two we are back in P&S Trouble.

 

the compo for Bruce could come in very handy if it's anywhere near the £5m quoted in the press.

Well given I am struggling to see any major increase in turnover - perhaps Club 1867 was a roaring success ! - and wages can't be that much lower. 

 

Will get a one month boost of lower wages as high paid players left on 30th June 

 

FFP is of course not just all or nothing on the 39m. There is always the look ahead test - have you changed your business plan.

 

So the projections for the forthcoming season just as relevant 

[Guest mkowl]

Just now, Ozymandias Owl said:

A good day to bury bad news maybe?

Ok it's not the Steve Bruce thread but this is 18 pages 

 

Ok 12 pages is me 

[SWFC Colesy]

Just for clarity for those who are thinking "if the ground was worth £60m and it was on our books at £22m, why didn't we just have the ground revalued to create the same profit???"

 

Unfortunately this would have been present on the balance sheet as a revaluation reserve rather than a gain in our P&L, hence the sale to a related party.

[myHero]

3 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Ok it's not the Steve Bruce thread but this is 18 pages 

 

Ok 12 pages is me 

Well the bad news hasn't been buried on here, but I don't think it's a coincidence is it? All this time, and while everyone is looking towards Newcastle, oh btw we've sold the stadium after blazing a shed load of money on achieving square root of f@ck all...

[Dick_Turpin]

37 minutes ago, casbahowl said:

He’s trying to compete in a division where a third of our opponents have PL failure payments and aren’t hamstrung by the same ridiculous rolling 39million rolling 3 year losses!

Because the odds are so heavily stacked in favour of the relegated teams he and other chairmen are having to use previously unheard of methods just to avoid a relegation battle for their respective clubs let alone a promotion push!

It doesn’t take a genius to work it out as you’ve clearly demonstrated!

Well done DC ........

By far the best, most ambitious Chairman in my half century of watching & supporting my team!

It also doesn’t take a genius to see that....

 

Re ambition - Richards got us into Europe, signed current England internationals and came up with a flawed scheme to take us to the next level. Under him Tricky Trev - the real one not the Chansiri fluffer - told us he wouldn’t rest until he brought the title back to Hillsborough. According to Chansiri his main ambition has been to not get relegated. 

 

Mcgee took us from the depths of Div Three to fifth in Div One. He told us not to travel to Cardiff because they were charging us £3  - about a tenner in today’s money. Chansiri has taken us from mid table in the 2nd Division to mid-table in the 2nd Division, sold Hillsborough and made us the most expensive team to watch outside the big clubs. 

 

Forgive me if I have my doubts about your judgement.