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Is it time to re-evaluate Steve Burtenshaw?

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Not my picture, but I'm wondering if it's time to rethink Steve Burtenshaw? A couple of the ex players I've spoken to recently for my book on the period rated his coaching and enthusiasm. Set up Middlewood Rovers. And I'm told (some) fans protested about his sacking.
 
Has anyone got any other arguments in favour? I know there are lots against :)
 

wed-3_zps6okeqeqg.jpg

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Win rate 18%

 

 

Better than eustace........

 

(thats not an accolade)

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He liked Buff Envelopes ..

 

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When you look at it..

How many f.ookin' managers have we had...that just sorta "wandered in" ?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, asteener1867 said:

When you look at it..

How many f.ookin' managers have we had...that just sorta "wandered in" ?

Well talking of Wandering ...

Made me think of this chap ......

Wanderly by name 

Wander by nature 

He's on his 36th club managed !!!!!......

lol

Wanderley_Luxemburgo_2010.jpg

Edited by OWLERTON GHOST
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1983 Campo Grande
1983 Rio Branco
1984 Friburguense
1984 Al-Ittihad
1985 Democrata
1987 America
1989–1990 Bragantino
1991 Guarani
1991 Flamengo
1992–1993 Ponte Preta
1993–1995 Palmeiras
1995 Flamengo
1995 Paraná
1995–1996 Palmeiras
1997 Santos
1998 Corinthians
1998–2000 Brazil
2001 Corinthians
2002 Palmeiras
2002–2004 Cruzeiro
2004 Santos
2005–2006 Real Madrid
2006–2007 Santos
2008–2009 Palmeiras
2009 Santos
2010 Atlético Mineiro
2010–2012 Flamengo
2012–2013 Grêmio
2013 Fluminense
2014–2015 Flamengo
2015 Cruzeiro
2016 Tianjin Quanjian
2017 Sport Recife
2019- Vasco da Gama

 

Got about a bit hasn't he?...Should arrive at Hillsboro' any minute mate lol

 

 

Vasco de gama his last club...fittingly enough...probably the only bloke thats travelled further .............

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I love how Owlstalk just goes random sometimes :)

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15 hours ago, asteener1867 said:
1983 Campo Grande
1983 Rio Branco
1984 Friburguense
1984 Al-Ittihad
1985 Democrata
1987 America
1989–1990 Bragantino
1991 Guarani
1991 Flamengo
1992–1993 Ponte Preta
1993–1995 Palmeiras
1995 Flamengo
1995 Paraná
1995–1996 Palmeiras
1997 Santos
1998 Corinthians
1998–2000 Brazil
2001 Corinthians
2002 Palmeiras
2002–2004 Cruzeiro
2004 Santos
2005–2006 Real Madrid
2006–2007 Santos
2008–2009 Palmeiras
2009 Santos
2010 Atlético Mineiro
2010–2012 Flamengo
2012–2013 Grêmio
2013 Fluminense
2014–2015 Flamengo
2015 Cruzeiro
2016 Tianjin Quanjian
2017 Sport Recife
2019- Vasco da Gama

 

Got about a bit hasn't he?...Should arrive at Hillsboro' any minute mate lol

 

 

Vasco de gama his last club...fittingly enough...probably the only bloke thats travelled further .............

Kin ell

Makes Carlos look like Fergie

lol

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when you look at who he worked for as a coach then you'd think theres  not much doubt about his ability in that department but as a manager he was a fecking disaster who didn't have a clue and I certainly cant recall too much protest from what fans remained when he got the bullet …….I realise that he was working under financial restraints but the signings he made were in the main appalling .players like brown,mcivor,henson,quinn, ramsbottom,dowd wernt of  the quality required for the players they were replacing and him signing colin Harvey and wasting 60k  of his very limited budget on a player who clearly wasn't fit just about sums him up . …….ranks along with danny Williams as the worst we've had .

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Was told that there was 'sack the board' chants when he went. Though that happened most weeks I guess :)

 

Good coach, good bloke, failed as manager I think will be the argument.

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His coaching abilty is beyond any doubt,but as a manager he was a hopeless failure.

Almost took us through two divisions in 2 seasons,he followed that up with a stint as boss at QPR where he had a win ratio of 14%,Rangers won a paltry 6 games under him,and lost 22 he took them from mid table to 3rd bottom and only his sacking and installing Docherty saved Rangers from the drop.

He also holds the record of the least successfull arsenal manager,all be it caretaker,he took over when Don Howe resigned,at the time Arse had won their last four games,He returned a success rate of 27% winning just 3 of his 11 games in charge it included a 0-3 defeat to Oxford Utd in his final game.

Great coach,crap manager,results dont lie

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2 hours ago, legendaryswan said:

His coaching abilty is beyond any doubt,but as a manager he was a hopeless failure.

Almost took us through two divisions in 2 seasons,he followed that up with a stint as boss at QPR where he had a win ratio of 14%,Rangers won a paltry 6 games under him,and lost 22 he took them from mid table to 3rd bottom and only his sacking and installing Docherty saved Rangers from the drop.

He also holds the record of the least successfull arsenal manager,all be it caretaker,he took over when Don Howe resigned,at the time Arse had won their last four games,He returned a success rate of 27% winning just 3 of his 11 games in charge it included a 0-3 defeat to Oxford Utd in his final game.

Great coach,crap manager,results dont lie

any idea who the assistant /coach was  with him at Hillsborough ?...…...blowed if I can remember. 

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6 hours ago, torryowl said:

any idea who the assistant /coach was  with him at Hillsborough ?...…...blowed if I can remember. 

Gerry Young. It was his birthday when they sacked him and SB.

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20 hours ago, legendaryswan said:

His coaching abilty is beyond any doubt,but as a manager he was a hopeless failure.

Almost took us through two divisions in 2 seasons,he followed that up with a stint as boss at QPR where he had a win ratio of 14%,Rangers won a paltry 6 games under him,and lost 22 he took them from mid table to 3rd bottom and only his sacking and installing Docherty saved Rangers from the drop.

He also holds the record of the least successfull arsenal manager,all be it caretaker,he took over when Don Howe resigned,at the time Arse had won their last four games,He returned a success rate of 27% winning just 3 of his 11 games in charge it included a 0-3 defeat to Oxford Utd in his final game.

Great coach,crap manager,results dont lie

That's just not true. He was sacked immediately after we beat Millwall 4-1 in October of 75 which had us in 12th place. Ashurst was appointed on 15th October 1975 and it took four or 5 games before he got his first win (November 5th v Gillingham) and we all know how the rest of the season panned out.

 

Whether Burtenshaw would have done any better or not who knows (probably not) but he inherited a poor team which needed a major rebuild and we just had no money at the time. Ashurst was certainly a capable enough manager and he struggled and only lasted two seasons. Then along came a certain Jack Charlton.

 

Just as a funny aside, whenever I type in Ashurst the spell check automatically alters it to Accurst which given Wednesday managers track record of the time seems rather appropriate!

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1 hour ago, Utah Owl said:

That's just not true. He was sacked immediately after we beat Millwall 4-1 in October of 75 which had us in 12th place. Ashurst was appointed on 15th October 1975 and it took four or 5 games before he got his first win (November 5th v Gillingham) and we all know how the rest of the season panned out.

 

Whether Burtenshaw would have done any better or not who knows (probably not) but he inherited a poor team which needed a major rebuild and we just had no money at the time. Ashurst was certainly a capable enough manager and he struggled and only lasted two seasons. Then along came a certain Jack Charlton.

 

Just as a funny aside, whenever I type in Ashurst the spell check automatically alters it to Accurst which given Wednesday managers track record of the time seems rather appropriate!

Not necessarily disagreeing with the point, but I believe SB went before the 4-1 as that was one of Jim Macnearney's two games as caretaker manager I think. 

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burtenshaw was sacked on oct 1st his last game was a 1-1 draw away at palace which left us in 16th place …..

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So his last three games in that case were 4-0 at home v Grimsby (our biggest win of the season) 0-1 defeat at Chesterfield and 1-1 draw at Palace who finished 5th and went up the following year. At that point I would suggest he wasn't doing to badly (not to detract from the previous season's absolute disaster) and was starting to find his feet.

 

It's not so much that he was sacked (he really should have gone as soon as relegation became inevitable in Feb 75), it's just that the timing seemed strange. Was he having personal issues with the board or was he sacked to distract from their abject running of the club? Who knows?

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6 hours ago, Utah Owl said:

So his last three games in that case were 4-0 at home v Grimsby (our biggest win of the season) 0-1 defeat at Chesterfield and 1-1 draw at Palace who finished 5th and went up the following year. At that point I would suggest he wasn't doing to badly (not to detract from the previous season's absolute disaster) and was starting to find his feet.

 

It's not so much that he was sacked (he really should have gone as soon as relegation became inevitable in Feb 75), it's just that the timing seemed strange. Was he having personal issues with the board or was he sacked to distract from their abject running of the club? Who knows?

i think we had a change of chairman with McGee replacing sheppard and old bert  probably wanted to bring in his own choice …..

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9 hours ago, torryowl said:

i think we had a change of chairman with McGee replacing sheppard and old bert  probably wanted to bring in his own choice …..

 

Yes, Bert McGee and Matt Sheppard swapped roles, McGee became chairman, Sheppard as vice-chairman.

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1 minute ago, Bearwood Owl1 said:

 

Yes, Bert McGee and Matt Sheppard swapped roles, McGee became chairman, Sheppard as vice-chairman.

Even so strange timing, by this time Burtenshaw was getting better results, and Ashurst got off to a shocking start. The fact that it went down to the final game of the season was a complete embarrassment.

 

It was only by virtue of the fact that we won the last 5 at home that we stopped up at all and in the first game of that run we had to rely on an 86th minute OG from Colchester to save us, in front of less than 7,000 fans. We worshipped Accurst as a saviour at the time, but in retrospect I'm not sure that Burtenshaw would have been as bad or worse.

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