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Have we sold our ground


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6 hours ago, Tyto Alba said:

Selling the stadium is like selling your house to pay your gambling debts.  We have been very badly run and that is why we are in this situation.  FFP is there to protect clubs from owners who rack up large debts by gambling on promotion only to later walk away and leave the club with debts they can never repay.

 

Wasn't MM the man who bought the Club for £1 ?  DC paid handsomely for it.  We were very badly run before  DC arrived on the scene, are you suggesting that he's going to walk away and leave us in debt? 

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8 hours ago, billyblack said:

Its not really hindsight though is it, if you can sell for more than you bought and reinvest its just good business. Its how clubs survive

 

Only meant hindsight in how this season went for FF. completely agree that it stuck out as the right thing to do at the time, particularly given DC’s knowledge of how the finances looked at that point. 

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8 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

 

I do remember about 15 years ago when Dave Allen was Chairmen we were trying to lower Wednesdays debt by selling the training ground.
So has the ownership of the training ground changed since then?

 

The deal for the sale of the training ground would have given the council most of the money while we would have got compensation for the remaining years of the lease. 

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7 hours ago, Sham67 said:

 

My home is leasehold, I'm pretty sure I can sell it any time I want.  Just like any other leasehold property in the country.

 

But you own the house and then hold a lease on the land. 

 

Wednesday don't own the training ground, the council do and SWFC then lease it. Think if it as though you have a shop and lease it from the owner of the building. You can't just go and sell the physical shop and pocket the money. 

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4 hours ago, dumboldowl said:

 

Wasn't MM the man who bought the Club for £1 ?  DC paid handsomely for it.  We were very badly run before  DC arrived on the scene, are you suggesting that he's going to walk away and leave us in debt? 

 

We had a steadily raising debt under MM mainly due to rapidly rising costs of being in the Championship. MM identified this and as a result sought a buyer better able to bare the increasing financial burden. 

 

Sure, we ran a tight ship under MM, little to no scouting very limited resources on many fronts, it’s grossly unfair to say we were badly run though.

 

In fact, a quick look at the players who continued to feature in our first team since the sale suggest we did some things very well vs. our circumstances.

 

Plus, we always started the season with a kit and even Stephen King would have failed to envisage the full horror of cakeball.......lol 

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He might sell the ground to himself only because he as totally f*cked the finances at the club.  He has gambled on it and turned it into a business that isn't sustainable without injections of cash from outside.  As soon as he walks away the club is dead.  The purpose of FFP is to protect clubs from that.

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7 minutes ago, Tyto Alba said:

He might sell the ground to himself only because he as totally f*cked the finances at the club.  He has gambled on it and turned it into a business that isn't sustainable without injections of cash from outside.  As soon as he walks away the club is dead.  The purpose of FFP is to protect clubs from that.

 

Is any club at Championship level sustainable without injections of cash from outside? 

 

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Just now, matthefish2002 said:

 

Is any club at Championship level sustainable without injections of cash from outside? 

 

Dont know. Tell you what helps though.

 

Selling players at a decent profit when opportune arises.

Being more strategic in the players you buy in the first place.

Generating revenue streams outside the actual football.

 

All stuff we have been rubbish at for as long as i can remember

 

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1 minute ago, Tyto Alba said:

He might sell the ground to himself only because he as totally f*cked the finances at the club.  He has gambled on it and turned it into a business that isn't sustainable without injections of cash from outside.  As soon as he walks away the club is dead.  The purpose of FFP is to protect clubs from that.

 

I think that's a bit alarmist however it depends on his exit strategy we may well be in trouble who knows. He's been quoted as turning down substantial offers that someone who isn't committed would have snatched 

 

WE as fans and certainly on here differ  we all want success but the concern is what we do to get it and will there be a viable club left if it fails 

certainly so far I've seen people on here who would sell anything, do anything, take money from any source to play the likes of the super financed teams .

 

my view I would've like success of some sort before i snuff it, but primarily I'd want a viable club left for my sons and their kids to support  IF this manoeuvre has happened we can do nothing about it but hope for the best  

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3 hours ago, Tyto Alba said:

He might sell the ground to himself only because he as totally f*cked the finances at the club.  He has gambled on it and turned it into a business that isn't sustainable without injections of cash from outside.  As soon as he walks away the club is dead.  The purpose of FFP is to protect clubs from that.

But if we only really owe him the money, won't there be any losses if he simply walks away after a new owner comes in?

 

(naive of me I know) 

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4 hours ago, billyblack said:

Dont know. Tell you what helps though.

 

Selling players at a decent profit when opportune arises.

Being more strategic in the players you buy in the first place.

Generating revenue streams outside the actual football.

 

All stuff we have been rubbish at for as long as i can remember

 

Chasbafowl still negging like a *** I see

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14 hours ago, Morepork said:

 

We had a steadily raising debt under MM mainly due to rapidly rising costs of being in the Championship. MM identified this and as a result sought a buyer better able to bare the increasing financial burden. 

 

Sure, we ran a tight ship under MM, little to no scouting very limited resources on many fronts, it’s grossly unfair to say we were badly run though.

 

In fact, a quick look at the players who continued to feature in our first team since the sale suggest we did some things very well vs. our circumstances.

 

Plus, we always started the season with a kit and even Stephen King would have failed to envisage the full horror of cakeball.......lol 

 

My intention, in pointing out that MM bought the club for £1, wasn't meant to accuse him personally of  running the club badly. It was to indicate the dire straits that we were already in, ( that had driven us to the verge of receivership).

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Nothing new with selling your ground to keep the club going. Some teams like l**ds and Coventry went down that road, but it did end up being a bit of a problem for Coventry when the investment company that bought the ground kept upping the rent!

 

As long as the money raised is spent sensibly, bringing in players that Bruce and his scouts believe will benefit our team and the amount of spending does not prevent us from buying players over the next few seasons, then fair enough. If we do get up to the prem, DC can sort out stage payments, or whatever to re-unite the club and the ground.

 

The problem that could mess this up is if DC (or any of his dodgy advisers), decide to blow chunks of money on players which Bruce has not requested. No more stupid gestures from DC, just wise investments and wages, based on what players can do for SWFC now and in the future and not what they did when they were at their peak (five years ago), or what the agent fees can do for the dodgy agents. 

 

Otherwise we could end up skint, with DC going back to Thailand, the club owned by some other rich dude and the ground owned by another party, leaving us high and dry, paying over the odds for the ground in rent and having to share the ground with concerts, rugby, American football, Monster trucks, Ferret of the year, Strictly Come Morris Dancing etc.

 

lol

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4 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

Nothing new with selling your ground to keep the club going. Some teams like l**ds and Coventry went down that road, but it did end up being a bit of a problem for Coventry when the investment company that bought the ground kept upping the rent!

lol

 

Not true. The deal Coventry signed for the Ricoh stated that the council and the Higgs Charity kept the matchday revenue. The company that owns Coventry (SISU) thought this unfair (they had a point, but the deal was signed long before them) and to try and force their hand, they withheld the lease payments on the ground (£1.2m per season). This was deemed breach of contract and so the stadium owners then signed a new deal with Wasps. Coventry are authors of their own demise.

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22 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

Not true. The deal Coventry signed for the Ricoh stated that the council and the Higgs Charity kept the matchday revenue. The company that owns Coventry (SISU) thought this unfair (they had a point, but the deal was signed long before them) and to try and force their hand, they withheld the lease payments on the ground (£1.2m per season). This was deemed breach of contract and so the stadium owners then signed a new deal with Wasps. Coventry are authors of their own demise.

 

Yes, sorry, you are right, I am getting mixed up with Rotherham and several other clubs that have fallen foul of not owning their ground.

 

SISU pulled a fast one at Coventry, expecting to be able to reduce the cost of playing at the stadium. SISU was responsible for the club's demise. The real Coventry City, the fans, used to go to Northampton and sit on a hill next to the ground, rather than pay to get in and consequently bought more tickets for away games than "home" games. 

 

The point I was trying to make and the Coventry example is still valid, is that having two different owners for the ground and club does not always work and if things go badly can be calamitous.

 

Chelsea football club would never have been the club they are now for example, if their naughty old owner, Ken Bates had not managed to regain the freehold for the ground, which allowed him to make a comfortable profit on his £1 investment (along with 1.5M debt), when he sold for a reported £140M.

 

What exactly do you buy when you buy a football club if the ground is not part of the deal and how much more is a club worth with the ground included?

 

I hope that this is a short term thing that can be used to kick start our climb to the Prem, but although a decent bet, with Bruce at the helm, I think it is a much dodgier proposition if DC and the likes of Doyen are allowed to splash all the cash! 

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7 hours ago, Tyto Alba said:

He might sell the ground to himself only because he as totally f*cked the finances at the club.  He has gambled on it and turned it into a business that isn't sustainable without injections of cash from outside.  As soon as he walks away the club is dead.  The purpose of FFP is to protect clubs from that.

Then FFP is bizarre...Instead of letting Chansiri simply put the money into the football club...He has to more or less sell the ground ..to himself?

wheres the sense in it all?

We got drinks and Taxis that don't exist...I know its all "a way around FFP..But surely if you have a chairman who is simply willing to underwrite any losses..What on Earth is the problem?

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surely the simplest way of ensuring FFP is to prove proof of funding.

This fit and proper persons rubbish has been shown up for what it is....

why not simply ensure the owner can afford to underwrite any losses, that guarantees the club won't go to the wall if he suddenly decides he's had enough?

A simple insurance policy isn't it...

or is there some sort of rocket science thing ive missed?

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