billyblack Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, cockneyvillageowl said: Very true - even if the £14m figure was inflated by the media, selling FF for £10m would have kept us on the right side of FFP. Whilst he’s a quality player, we wouldn’t have missed him much over the past season... hindsight is a wonderful thing mind. Its not really hindsight though is it, if you can sell for more than you bought and reinvest its just good business. Its how clubs survive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest addedtime Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 48 minutes ago, billyblack said: Just to add to that, we cant afford to turn down good offers for players. Period. All this non selling club is just a pipe dream and nonsense Full stop. Alright Already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, cockneyvillageowl said: Very true - even if the £14m figure was inflated by the media, selling FF for £10m would have kept us on the right side of FFP. Whilst he’s a quality player, we wouldn’t have missed him much over the past season... hindsight is a wonderful thing mind. DC comes out at the start of the season saying if we don't get promoted we will be in trouble with FFP, then its stated from sources that we are an 8 figure fee short for FFP. Then in January we are told Fessi is available for £14m, reading between the lines we need £14m to avoid breaking FFP. Fessi has 1 year left in contract either we resign him or we sell him. Anything around £8m would be great business but more likely anything north of £5m would be half decent business. Edited May 23, 2019 by room0035 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minton Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, room0035 said: DC comes out at the start of the season saying if we don't get promoted we will be in trouble with FFP, then its stated from sources that we are an 8 figure fee short for FFP. Then in January we are told Fessi is available for £14m, reading between the lines we need £14m to avoid breaking FFP. Fessi has 1 year left in contract either we resign him or we sell him. Anything around £8m would be great business but more likely anything north of £5m would be half decent business. Much like Westwood, Forestieri may have a contract extension clause that the club can activate, so that would be 2 years rather than just 1, hence we aren't under too much pressure to sell immediately. Perhaps see where we are come January and how he is performing before we decide to sell or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 42 minutes ago, Mishowl said: My background is in Plant and Machinery valuations where we use different methods but I found this: "The profits method of property valuation is typically applied to commercial property valuations where the major value component is driven by the profitability of the businesses that occupy the buildings and not simply the land or buildings themselves. Situations where the profits method of valuation would be appropriate include hotels, guest houses, pubs and cinemas. Despite the financial “facts and figures” practicality of the profits method however, one of the most popular techniques used to value commercial property is still the comparable method". "The comparable method of property valuation, put simply is all about comparing and contrasting the values of similar properties in similar locations in an attempt to establish an approximate value for the property under consideration. The comparable method of commercial property valuation is recognised as being straight forward to apply and easy to understand and more importantly, appears to work well under most situations. There are of course other factors that must be taken into consideration when using the comparable valuation method, but generally that is how it works". cheers so the stadium would be worth Minus £100m on the first basis Comparable method - well possibly that is where the value of Pride Park comes in handy. Again if we compared it t'Lane Minus £200m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddybeararmy Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, billyblack said: Just to add to that, we cant afford to turn down good offers for players. Period. All this non selling club is just a pipe dream and nonsense Your presuming the club has full control over the purchase and sales of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Alba Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Selling the stadium is like selling your house to pay your gambling debts. We have been very badly run and that is why we are in this situation. FFP is there to protect clubs from owners who rack up large debts by gambling on promotion only to later walk away and leave the club with debts they can never repay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 43 minutes ago, teddybeararmy said: Your presuming the club has full control over the purchase and sales of players. Well yes. Who does if they dont? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 32 minutes ago, Tyto Alba said: Selling the stadium is like selling your house to pay your gambling debts. We have been very badly run and that is why we are in this situation. FFP is there to protect clubs from owners who rack up large debts by gambling on promotion only to later walk away and leave the club with debts they can never repay. Surely, in the a number of cases, that debt is to the owners themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flo Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Maybe if we sold each stand separately we would get more money for it. I assume the cost of bulk buying stands would be less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I am sure its been asked before but why cant we sell the training ground instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, Tyto Alba said: Selling the stadium is like selling your house to pay your gambling debts. We have been very badly run and that is why we are in this situation. FFP is there to protect clubs from owners who rack up large debts by gambling on promotion only to later walk away and leave the club with debts they can never repay. It's not though. It is a workaround to allow Chansiri to put more of his own money into the club because a rule exists that stops him doing it. I am against the idea of moving the ground out of the ownership of SWFC Limited but I can also fully understand why it has become the only viable option available. Yes, it is a quick fix for previous financial mismanagement but selling the asset to himself is not like someone selling their house to settle a debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside_Owl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said: I am sure its been asked before but why cant we sell the training ground instead? Because we don't own it, the council does. We only lease it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtawnyowl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 7 hours ago, mkowl said: In answer to your final point then absolutely the rent payable is a cost for FFP. And of course there could be a circular function here. I have no idea how you calculate an in use value for a football stadium, but rental yield could be an option. So you can't be saying the stadium is worth £80m but only pay a £1 in rent. Well you could but the EFL will argue the valuation is a function of the rent. The rent should be a commercial rate on the valuation. A commercial landlord would look at a min 5% yield which on £80m valuation is £3.6m rent per season. How much is the valuation of "The City of London Stadium" ? According to an article published by the BBC Sports News the cost of converting the stadium from an athletic stadium to a football stadium ,alone, was, reportedy £323m. So taking this into account, plus the initial cost the stadium must be valued far , far above the £80m quoted in the above post. Why then do West Ham Utd get away with paying rent the ground for £2.5m annually.? A rent which I understand includes all running costs, including ground staff, stewarding, turn-style and security staff etc. Oh, wait a minute - Different rules for Premier League innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, matthefish2002 said: I am sure its been asked before but why cant we sell the training ground instead? We could and indeed there is no reason to stop DC doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, oldtawnyowl said: How much is the valuation of "The City of London Stadium" ? According to an article published by the BBC Sports News the cost of converting the stadium from an athletic stadium to a football stadium ,alone, was, reportedy £323m. So taking this into account, plus the initial cost the stadium must be valued far , far above the £80m quoted in the above post. Why then do West Ham Utd get away with paying rent the ground for £2.5m annually.? A rent which I understand includes all running costs, including ground staff, stewarding, turn-style and security staff etc. Oh, wait a minute - Different rules for Premier League innit? Because the Landlords are incompetent fools But yep DC and indeed Derby could cite this as evidence of comparable market rents to justify a low amount paid per year hereafter The cost of constructing something is merely a guide to its value I could buy a factory site for £10m, but if next week I stopped production and could not get another company to move in, the site is suddenly worth considerably less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogbad Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, mkowl said: We could and indeed there is no reason to stop DC doing that I thought we leased it from the council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Offside_Owl said: Because we don't own it, the council does. We only lease it. 2 minutes ago, mogbad said: I thought we leased it from the council. I do remember about 15 years ago when Dave Allen was Chairmen we were trying to lower Wednesdays debt by selling the training ground. So has the ownership of the training ground changed since then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, mogbad said: I thought we leased it from the council. I thought Dave Allen wanted to sell it in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Not trawling through 70 pages. Have we sold the ground or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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