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Have we sold our ground


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3 minutes ago, spike1867 said:

I was thinking about this myself.  Its not just the sale amount that is significant.  Somebody is welcome to come and shoot holes in this but hear me out.

 

IF we sell the ground to DC and become tenants, would it be correct to say that everytime there is a maintenance/development/safety/legal issue, the Landlord (DC) would have to foot the bill for this and not the tenant (the club)? So therefore the daily running and upkeep of the stadium is borne by DC and not the club.  Maybe DC can raise outside investment for the stadium more easily if its not "tied" to the club, as most people will readily admit, football clubs are black holes for money. 

 

Lots of questions, most will probably be answered by those far more knowledgeable than me in a flash.  I think there is a lot of nervousness because its another step into the unknown.  We've not seen any positive examples of other clubs doing it.  It looks great in the short term, but maybe there are more long term benefits to it.  Do all clubs own there ground? Are there any examples elsewhere in Europe where clubs lease the ground on favourable terms?

 

Food for thought...

 

I can think of one less than 4 miles away.

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FOOTBALL

 

Sky Bet Championship clubs accused of selling grounds then renting them back to exploit FFP rules

 

Matt Hughes, Sports News Correspondent

 

May 17 2019, 12:01am, The Times

 

Football

Premier League

Derby recently revealed they had sold Pride Park to Morris, the club’s owner

 

The English Football League will review its financial fair play rules this summer after complaints from clubs in the Sky Bet Championship that their rivals are exploiting the system by selling off their grounds and leasing them back as a way of balancing the books.

Sheffield Wednesday and two other Championship clubs are believed to have followed the example of Derby County, who revealed last month that they sold Pride Park to the club’s owner Mel Morris for £80 million last year, enabling them to record a pre-tax profit of £14.6 million for the 2017-18 season. Aston Villa are understood to be considering selling Villa Park if they fail to win promotion to the Premier League in this month’s play-off final.

Under EFL profit and sustainability rules that prohibit clubs recording losses of more than £39 million over a three-year period, there is nothing to prevent such sale and lease-back schemes, which are an accepted method of solving cashflow problems in other industries. Many clubs consider it unethical, however, and the EFL board has agreed to review its regulations. It is understood that the subject will be on the agenda at the end-of-season meeting of Championship clubs in Portugal next month.

Several clubs have expressed anger that their Championship peers appear to be using creative accounting to bypass financial fair play (FFP) regulations that have resulted in Birmingham City being docked nine points and Queens Park Rangers fined £42 million for breaches in the past 12 months. Derby and Villa are understood to be two of the clubs most at risk of breaking the EFL’s £39 million loss cap and incurring sanctions if they are not promoted to the Premier League. Wednesday and Leeds United are also at risk.

The EFL introduced a set tariff for FFP breaches this season. A maximum of 12 points could be docked, although a further nine can be added if an aggravated breach is proven.

One owner of a Championship club told The Times: “According to the rules it’s not cheating, but we should change the way the rules are written. In this instance fair play doesn’t mean anything. It’s not ethically correct.”

The chief executive of another club added: “My owners are furious about this and demanding change. It’s not a level playing field at present as the rules are meaningless.”

Villa raised £4 million through the sale of a car park close to Villa Park last year and will look at selling the entire stadium as an option to raise funds if they are in breach of the EFL’s spending limits this summer. Wednesday’s situation is even more intriguing as they have yet to file accounts for the year ending July 2018. These were due on April 30.

Villa Park could be sold if the club fail to win promotion to the Premier League

The Times understands that the club have also failed to file accounts to the EFL which were due last December, which could lead to them being fined. A club spokesman said that any new arrangement regarding Hillsborough would be clear in their accounts, which they insisted would be published in the next few weeks.

“The long-term sustainability of all EFL clubs remains of paramount importance and we will continue to work with Championship clubs in respect of the rules at next month’s summer conference,” an EFL spokesman said. “Clubs have also been reminded of the stringent processes undertaken in reviewing financial submissions and that in the event any club is found to be in breach of the rules, they will be referred to an independent disciplinary commission.”

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14 minutes ago, spike1867 said:

Do all clubs own there ground? Are there any examples elsewhere in Europe where clubs lease the ground on favourable terms?

 

Just in the Premier League:

 

The freeholds of the stadiums of Arsenal, Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Chelsea, Huddersfield, Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle, Stoke, Swansea and West Ham are all owned by either a 3rd party or their respective councils.

 

Us selling the ground to our owner is really not a big deal as if Chansiri ever sold the club, the stadium would be more than likely be included in that sale.

 

https://www.propertyweek.com/news-analysis/who-owns-premier-league-stadiums/5090883.article

Edited by Minton
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30 minutes ago, Themagiccap said:

Derby sold their ground to their owner and now rent it back to his own club!

a wide open loophole in the rules, brilliantly exploited by DC. If we’re in a P&S Mess at say £45M I’d take a stab in the dark that The old girl is valued at about £45,000,001. 

Get spending Mr Bruce 

Bollarcks 45mil for Hillsborough if derby is 80mil Hillsborough more iconic gotta be atleast 100mil

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1 minute ago, Sham67 said:

 

Why? I doubt anyone wouldn't buy a ST based on who owned the ground.

 

You mean like when he conveniently forgot to tell us last season that we were under embargo and was still pushing a promotion campaign and anyone who thinks United have a better team than us knows nothing about football?

 

The guy couldn't run a bath competently.

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3 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

Just in the Premier League:

 

The freeholds of the stadiums of Arsenal, Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Chelsea, Huddersfield, Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle, Stoke, Swansea and West Ham are all owned by either a 3rd party or their respective councils.

 

Us selling the ground to our owner is really not a big deal as if Chansiri ever sold the club, the stadium would be more than likely be included in that sale.

 

https://www.propertyweek.com/news-analysis/who-owns-premier-league-stadiums/5090883.article

 

What are you basing ‘more than likely’ on? 

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4 minutes ago, Pulcinella said:

 

Perhaps he wants to have a head start on rivals?

I thought that to be honest, If other clubs and agents think we have no spending power because of P&S restrictions then they aren't going to be looking to fleece us if we come in just below asking price.

 

On the other hand if Gibson at Boro is moaning about it then it's probably common knowledge in the circles that matter.

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1 hour ago, matthefish2002 said:

If Chansiri ran the club properly in the first place they would be no need to sell the ground (assuming that is what is happening).

Where do we go in 3 years time if we are still a mid table Championship club?

I would be very, very uneasy about selling the ground.

 

 

 

Why ???

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8 minutes ago, erowl said:

 

You mean like when he conveniently forgot to tell us last season that we were under embargo and was still pushing a promotion campaign and anyone who thinks United have a better team than us knows nothing about football?

 

The guy couldn't run a bath competently.

 

Get it off your chest mate.  You might be able to answer my question then.

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8 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

What are you basing ‘more than likely’ on? 

 

Well if you're selling a business, you generally sell on assets linked to it as well. Sell the ground to a new owner for a lump sum and the new owner then lease the ground to the club for rent. 

 

Even if he didn't sell the ground, we would still pay rent. Makes no difference to us who we are paying said rent to really

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1 minute ago, pioowl said:

Why ???

 

Coventry, Leeds, Portsmouth to name a few have all not owned they grounds in the past and this has caused them all sorts of problems.

If we are selling the ground to fund trying to get to the Premier League and we don't get there it is very likely to happen to us.

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5 minutes ago, pioowl said:

Why ???

 

Have a read about everything that’s happened to Coventry City in the past 15 years.

 

If we stay down for an extended period and Chansiri wants to start recouping his cash...

I move a lot of concrete on the QVC.

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