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owl-zat

The missing thousands at Hillsborough

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1 hour ago, bladeshater said:

Healthy living 

 

Watching Wednesday ain’t good for your health! lol

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20 minutes ago, Peacenocchio said:

Lazy stats by the OP - where has the 21/22000 figure come from for the past three years? - Out of their harris that's where.

 

These topics come up regularly and i've posted before that the evidence is very clear (not that evidence affects many peoples opinions of course).

Big changes in average crowds in a season are absolutely dictated by what happened the season before and the anticipation for the season ahead - not the in season results or prices or anything else. Season ticket sales dictate crowds -  its that obvious, and people buy them based on the feel good factor at the end of the season not on how cheap they are.

 

A further example is that the pigs averages last season (after promotion the year before) were higher than this season (after finishing 10th in the Champ). Which are both by the way less than our 2016/17 average  - our high prices and all.  Explain that away...….

 

We will hit about 24,500 this year btw. 

2015–16 Champ - Carlos 1 6th Fourth round Quarter-finals Championship Play-off Runner-up Fernando Forestieri 15 22,641
2016–17 Champ - Carlos 2 4th Third Round First Round Championship Play-off Semi-final Fernando Forestieri 12 27,129
2017–18 Champ -Carlos 3/Jos 15th Fifth Round Second Round   Atdhe Nuhiu 14

25,995

 

Not lazy or talking out of my arse and at least I'm trying to come up with something viable rather than slagging the club.

 

I could see what Chansiri was trying to do with the match day prices encouraging fans to purchase season tickets for which we have 21,000 - 22,000 I believe but, after that very few fans buy a single match day ticket and the crowd generally only goes up if the away fans bring a good following.

 

I've worked on cash turnstiles and had only 9 people pay the £42 I think it was on South Stand a few seasons ago and apart from season ticket holders and away fans there are very few extra fans coming through the turnstiles.

 

    

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Posted (edited)

I originally mentioned the 5 game ticket bundle, pick and choose your fixtures throughout the season. £30 per game, £150 package.

 

SWFC listened and implemented a similar scheme but obviously, red tape and stipulations meant it wasn't successful, having a limited number of games to choose from and certain date to use it by, meant yet again, SWFC don't see my money.

 

People could argue £30 is too much, but I disagree, when a category A game sets you back £46 - you've saved £16 on 1 fixture. 

 

SWFC could even allow members only to select this ticket bundle - so your £50 membership gives you an added bonus

 

There's loads that can be done. 

Edited by bigash_swfc
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I’ve attended 8 away games and 3 home games this season.

 

That say’s a lot regarding the ticket prices... I’m sure I’m not the only one.

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19 hours ago, Sheffield1973 said:

Cut prices

Offer season ticket holders a free junior ticket up to 13 free

Give season ticket holders vouchers for match pies and beers

Fill the Away end bottom tier first

Fill the NE corner with flags and banners

Stop making us feel like we’re customers to be rinsed at every chance 

 

it’s not hard

 

 

This !!!!!

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19 minutes ago, GMOwl72 said:

Watching Wednesday ain’t good for your health! lol

 

Neither is playing for them, apparently.

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15 minutes ago, bigash_swfc said:

I originally mentioned the 5 game ticket bundle, pick and choose your fixtures throughout the season. £30 per game, £150 package.

 

SWFC listened and implemented a similar scheme but obviously, red tape and stipulations meant it wasn't successful, having a limited number of games to choose from and certain date to use it by, meant yet again, SWFC don't see my money.

 

People could argue £30 is too much, but I disagree, when a category A game sets you back £46 - you've saved £16 on 1 fixture. 

 

SWFC could even allow members only to select this ticket bundle - so your £50 membership gives you an added bonus

 

There's loads that can be done. 

Whether it should be £30 or £25 a match is up for debate but the idea is spot on. 

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5 hours ago, danblakemore said:

Think people are looking at it the wrong way around.

 

I'd like to see better season ticket / membership offers, family packages, more incentives to buy one 9like a home shirt for half price etc.). 

 

Most teams who have good attendances rely on a very high sales rate of season tickets. 

This is a great point season ticket holders, especially loyal ones are NOT rewarded. You should get discounts on season ticket renewals (10% off original price paid for every season renewed up to 50%), half price on everything in the shop and the priority on away tickets (which is currently in place something good that the club does).

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20 hours ago, owl-zat said:

How do we get the missing thousands of fans back to Hillsborough who have dropped off over the last 20 years for various reasons i.e relegation from Premier League, club on its knees financially and not being competitive and now high pay on the gate prices.

 

Our attendances have been stuck around 22,000 to 23,000 the past 2 or 3 years only increasing slightly if when we’ve been doing well or attractive opposition mainly because fans have been picking and choosing their games rather than religiously turning up week after week.

 

The club can’t radically change its pricing structure because fans have purchased up to 5 year season tickets but . . . . .

 

What would people think about a monthly season ticket?

 

Looking at the price of season tickets on sale at the moment an adult is paying the following per game :-

 

Kop £21.96

 

North & Grandstand :-  £26.74

 

South Stand :-£30.65

 

Fans have many reasons why they can’t/won’t buy a season ticket from work commitments, financial reasons e.t.c. e.t.c

 

When the fixtures come out in June and we have for example 3 home games in August, people could sign up for a month ticket at say £25 per match on the Kop so £75 in total for which they’d be sent 3 match day tickets for the month.

 

September we may have 2 games so that’d be £50

 

People maybe don’t want to commit to £505 to £705 for an adult season ticket but might be prepared to commit to £50-£75 a month (just checking this seasons fixtures the most home league games in a month was 3) people don’t have to commit one month if they have work commitments / holidays planned / social arrangements preventing them going to a game e.t.c e.t.c

 

Hopefully next season we’ll be fighting for those automatic promotion places but the ground won’t fill up week on week paying £33 to £39 on the Kop or up to £49 on the South Stand

Cut the wage bill by 33% say, then bring in young players who can be improved and sold on if need be, then reduce the prices.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, bradowl said:

 

I would rather sit next to an empty seat than some glory fan who'll go to lane just because they're playing Man United. 

 

It won't be a tenner more expensive than lane anyway, majority of there games will be category A* these were £33 on kop this season so will most probably be higher next season.

Don't think I've ever questioned the bloke at the side of me why hes there

 

Are they a particularly obnoxious breed these glory hunters ?

 

 

Edited by the monk

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6 hours ago, danblakemore said:

Think people are looking at it the wrong way around.

 

I'd like to see better season ticket / membership offers, family packages, more incentives to buy one 9like a home shirt for half price etc.). 

 

Most teams who have good attendances rely on a very high sales rate of season tickets. 

 

Exactly this,

 

Weekend only season tickets. Match bundle tickets. etc

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4 hours ago, the monk said:

Theres about 50,000 at the university's 

 

Historically, how many 'neutral' fans from Sheffield's two universities have gone to watch Wednesday or United that often? I doubt it is a significant number.

 

4 hours ago, modboy said:

 

Mates visiting (who supported other teams such as Man utd, Everton etc) used to come to matches with me when they were say twenty quid. Nowadays they have a heart attack when I tell them how much it would be. Much prefer an afternoon down kelham island etc.

 

All these neutral fans from the universities and mates making the odd visit have been lost, you would expect attendances to have gone down since the price increases compared with these good old days......

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23 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Historically, how many 'neutral' fans from Sheffield's two universities have gone to watch Wednesday or United that often? I doubt it is a significant number.

 

 

All these neutral fans from the universities and mates making the odd visit have been lost, you would expect attendances to have gone down since the price increases compared with these good old days......

Keep the prices high , let's get a petition going 

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21 hours ago, room0035 said:

Plain and simple fans have been priced out of attending games. The club have backed themselves into a corner because of the season tickets purchased in advance so they need to get used in lower attendances.

 

£30 is plenty for any seat in the brown but for most of the season floater fans have stayed away because the prices are too high.

 

Another 5,000 on the gate at £30 a ticket would have the club another £3.5m into the club But DC continues to drive fans away.

 

His latest policy of crap half time offers and moneyless tills all this does is mean more people spend less on match day in the ground. This meaning the club are worse off as well.

 

For me a complete rethink is needed from top to bottom the only thing he has got right in 4 and 1/2 years is Steve Bruce.

 

It's not quite this straightforward though.

 

Sure 5000 a week extra at £30 each would bring in another £3.5m but that has to be offset against the people currently paying more. Add to that the fact that £600k of it is VAT, there are extra policing and security costs etc etc and it's not quite so appealing.

 

Yes of course there should be more people in the ground and yes of course the tickets should be cheaper and yes of course, more tickets would bring in more revenue but nowhere near the kind of figures some suggest.

 

As for 'moneyless tills', I don't think you can knock the club for moving into the 21st century. Everything is cashless these days because it's actually really really expensive for businesses to handle cash. 

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19 minutes ago, londonowl said:

 

It's not quite this straightforward though.

 

Sure 5000 a week extra at £30 each would bring in another £3.5m but that has to be offset against the people currently paying more. Add to that the fact that £600k of it is VAT, there are extra policing and security costs etc etc and it's not quite so appealing.

 

Yes of course there should be more people in the ground and yes of course the tickets should be cheaper and yes of course, more tickets would bring in more revenue but nowhere near the kind of figures some suggest.

 

As for 'moneyless tills', I don't think you can knock the club for moving into the 21st century. Everything is cashless these days because it's actually really really expensive for businesses to handle cash. 

If we are going to included everything we of course have missed off the programme at 33 each if half of the people buy them that's another that's another £172,500, then these extra 5,000 people are buying from the club food and drink so this could average out at another £10 per person or £1.2m a season. 

 

I am also not sure whether any vat what so ever is paid on season tickets as the price for fans to buy them do not say VAT on them so I would be surprised if we get charge any.

 

As for the moneyless scheme if you read what I put it affects older fans, so this might be the club moving into the 21st Century but a lot of the fans were born in the 20th Century and like to pay with cash. 

 

The long and short of my point is we have 10-15,000 empty seats a game the club need more revenue they need to find a way to achieve this and has been shown charging £38+ a match is just leading to less people.

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1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Historically, how many 'neutral' fans from Sheffield's two universities have gone to watch Wednesday or United that often? I doubt it is a significant number.

 

I think we can assume that very few students are going to buy a season ticket. Roughly speaking, Sheffield has a population of around 500,000 and in recent years we've average around 10,000 walk-ups per game. So even when it comes to people who actually live in the city, only about 1 in 50 pay on the gate for our games. The chances of students, who by the time they reach university will either support another team or simply won't be interested in football, suddenly deciding to head off to Hillsborough just for the hell of it are much, much lower, whatever the price. They have other priorities.

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18 minutes ago, room0035 said:

If we are going to included everything we of course have missed off the programme at 33 each if half of the people buy them that's another that's another £172,500, then these extra 5,000 people are buying from the club food and drink so this could average out at another £10 per person or £1.2m a season. 

 

I am also not sure whether any vat what so ever is paid on season tickets as the price for fans to buy them do not say VAT on them so I would be surprised if we get charge any.

 

As for the moneyless scheme if you read what I put it affects older fans, so this might be the club moving into the 21st Century but a lot of the fans were born in the 20th Century and like to pay with cash. 

 

The long and short of my point is we have 10-15,000 empty seats a game the club need more revenue they need to find a way to achieve this and has been shown charging £38+ a match is just leading to less people.

Tickets include VAT, as does your season ticket but as they are retail sales, not specific VAT exclusive price is ever shown.

 

No way are 50% of people buying programmes (we don't currently sell 12000 per game)  and your figures assume that they are 100% profit.

 

Also, there is no way, and this is backed up by club accounts that the average profit on other matchday spend is £10 per person, per match. This would  require a spend closer to £18 (plus VAT) and it's a small proportion spend who £22 a game on top of ticket costs 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you regards the ticket prices, just pointing out that its easy to chuck figures out there but it's never quite that Straightforward.

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offer OAP prices from 60 years old like the blunts do

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8 hours ago, Geedee said:

I don't want to go to every game. I just do other things now at weekends. 

 

The point of my post was to agree with others that performances other than price is the main driver. 

 

Eg I wouldn't be interested in the match next Sunday for free, if we were challenging I would pay £40 for a North stand seat. 

 

However I can see why a 5 any match ticket at say £125 for the north stand would be attractive and would probably result in me going to a few more games. 

Ah right, I see. 

 

It really is all about having a successful team on the pitch. Win games and the crowds go up. OK we can have discounts and offers and freebies but nothing fills the ground like a winning team. And when the team's winning the current prices will be paid by thousands. 

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44 minutes ago, londonowl said:

Tickets include VAT, as does your season ticket but as they are retail sales, not specific VAT exclusive price is ever shown.

 

No way are 50% of people buying programmes (we don't currently sell 12000 per game)  and your figures assume that they are 100% profit.

 

Also, there is no way, and this is backed up by club accounts that the average profit on other matchday spend is £10 per person, per match. This would  require a spend closer to £18 (plus VAT) and it's a small proportion spend who £22 a game on top of ticket costs 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you regards the ticket prices, just pointing out that its easy to chuck figures out there but it's never quite that Straightforward.

 

 

I think you are missing my point currently we have crowds of 23,000 if we could get crowd of 28,000-30,000 each week turnover goes up for tickets, match day spend which includes programme, food, drink, merchandise etc.

 

If we could be exact with everything then that would be great but rough idea is all we have. The ticket gets someone into the stands then you get a lot of extra income that is difficult to quantify you could say a fan going for the first time taking their kid buys them a £60 shirt it might happen but I am not going to say half the 5,000 get shirts, then the kids have the full kit with socks, shorts etc because you cannot know if that will happen but I do not know a single fan that only spends on a ticket in the ground so to say there will not be other income is simple not true.

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