Assessment of Today

[Birley Owl 1867]

1 minute ago, McRightSide said:

 

There’s nothing to say that that should be his reaction...not reacting as you expect him to does not mean he’s 100% at fault.

 

Just like Dawson taking a pop at his defence after letting an easy one past the other week excuses him of fault

If he hadn't heard a shot he'd have told him so. Simple as. He clearly did and realised he fizzed up. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

We went over the Norwich goal. It's not as easy as you think to save, and I'm not 100% sure Westwood would have saved it either if I'm being honest. But he should have, Hutchinson was way too slow in getting to the attacker and it could have been easily blocked before it reached the net.

[dewsburyowl58]

2 minutes ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

because Westwood is our current number 1? He'd be the guy he replaces.

Well in my opinion Dawson is not ready to take over from Westwood yet . The way he was ranting was more for fans behind him than trying to sort misunderstandings I reckon 

[Birley Owl 1867]

2 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Assume you’ve got no qualms with finishing mid table then? Because will

be difficult finishing top 6 conceding nearly 2 goals every game

I'd be happy enough with Dawson next season, if Westwood doesn't stay. We don't seem to pass ourselves into trouble anymore under Bruce, which will help.

 

For what its worth I think Westwood stays next season, and Dawson will go out on loan somewhere.

[McRightSide]

Just now, Birley Owl 1867 said:

If he hadn't heard a shot he'd have told him so. Simple as. He clearly did and realised he fizzed up. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

We went over the Norwich goal. It's not as easy as you think to save, and I'm not 100% sure Westwood would have saved it either if I'm being honest. But he should have, Hutchinson was way too slow in getting to the attacker and it could have been easily blocked before it reached the net.

 

Again, that’s just not true. I bet Lees is more of a team player than to score an own goal and instantly blame someone else...but like your point - it’s a total guess.

 

All we know is that there was a breakdown in communication, and it happens fairly often when Dawson is in goal - this time is just happened to led to us conceding.

 

The Norwich goal should have been stopped by any capable championship goalkeeper. If that’s not comfy for him to stop then he should pack his bags for Worksop Town now

 

 

[Birley Owl 1867]

2 minutes ago, dewsburyowl58 said:

Well in my opinion Dawson is not ready to take over from Westwood yet . The way he was ranting was more for fans behind him than trying to sort misunderstandings I reckon 

Wow. He just can't win can he.

 

Whoever takes over from Westwood will have the same problems as Dawson has, the fans not accepting him because he's not Keiren Westwood.

[Birley Owl 1867]

1 minute ago, McRightSide said:

 

Again, that’s just not true. I bet Lees is more of a team player than to score an own goal and instantly blame someone else...but like your point - it’s a total guess.

 

All we know is that there was a breakdown in communication, and it happens fairly often when Dawson is in goal - this time is just happened to led to us conceding.

 

The Norwich goal should have been stopped by any capable championship goalkeeper. If that’s not comfy for him to stop then he should pack his bags for Worksop Town now

 

 

You're right there was a breakdown in communication, but we also will never know if Lees would have listened to Westwood either. Or Wildsmith. Or why he tried to head it up rather than away.

 

It really isn't. Hard shot along the floor, through bodies with keeper going other way, it's difficult to stop. Anyone who thinks it's routine is wrong. could he have saved it? Yes. But it's not straight forward. 

[dewsburyowl58]

Just now, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Wow. He just can't win can he.

 

Whoever takes over from Westwood will have the same problems as Dawson has, the fans not accepting him because he's not Keiren Westwood.

Yes I get what you mean and yes anyone who replaces Westwood whilst he is still at the club best be a damn good keeper and match his performances at least . I reckon Dawson is short on confidence and it showed in his general play at Preston .

[Guest LondonOwl313]

Just now, Birley Owl 1867 said:

I'd be happy enough with Dawson next season, if Westwood doesn't stay. We don't seem to pass ourselves into trouble anymore under Bruce, which will help.

 

For what its worth I think Westwood stays next season, and Dawson will go out on loan somewhere.

Hopefully Westwood stays as it would be a massive loss if he doesn’t.

 

I’m no expert on goalkeeping performances so can’t point out exactly where Dawson goes wrong, or if he even does at all. But I can see the stats and they show that we concede more when he plays and have less clean sheets. Some of that is coincidental (playing games under a weaker manager, playing in games where Hutchinson didn’t play), but there has to be some link between Dawson and us letting in more goals.

 

If we’re serious about challenging he can’t be number 1 next season, we need better. Hopefully he gets some loan games and does improve, then pushes Westwood out the team. Everyone wants him to succeed 

[Birley Owl 1867]

Just now, dewsburyowl58 said:

Yes I get what you mean and yes anyone who replaces Westwood whilst he is still at the club best be a damn good keeper and match his performances at least . I reckon Dawson is short on confidence and it showed in his general play at Preston .

I think he had a solid game, his kicking is still off though and I don't think he has confidence in himself kicking out of his hands. 

 

Next season, if KW has gone, it will be easier for him to replace him as Westwood's burden may disappear. Jos did throw him up the creek without a paddle for the first 5 months.

[Birley Owl 1867]

5 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Hopefully Westwood stays as it would be a massive loss if he doesn’t.

 

I’m no expert on goalkeeping performances so can’t point out exactly where Dawson goes wrong, or if he even does at all. But I can see the stats and they show that we concede more when he plays and have less clean sheets. Some of that is coincidental (playing games under a weaker manager, playing in games where Hutchinson didn’t play), but there has to be some link between Dawson and us letting in more goals.

 

If we’re serious about challenging he can’t be number 1 next season, we need better. Hopefully he gets some loan games and does improve, then pushes Westwood out the team. Everyone wants him to succeed 

Think our style of play under Jos contributed to a lot of it.

 

Stupid passing that put us under pressure defensively which led to lots of chances.

 

Pissweak midfield parting like the red sea allowing chance after chance.

 

Don't think change in keeper coach helped massively either. 

 

As Westwood is the best keeper in the league, his replacement is always going to fair slightly worse in the stats than him. 

 

It's only natural that the players trust KW more as he has saved us numerous times. As Dawson gets older and more experienced, they'll trust him more too.

Dawson will be more than capable when he takes over. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Birley Owl 1867

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Think our style of play under Jos contributed to a lot of it.

 

Stupid passing that put us under pressure defensively which led to lots of chances.

 

Pissweak midfield parting like the red sea allowing chance after chance.

 

Don't think change in keeper coach helped massively either. 

 

As Westwood is the best keeper in the league, his replacement is always going to fair slightly worse in the stats than him. 

 

It's only natural that the players trust KW more as he has saved us numerous times. As Dawson gets older and more experienced, they'll trust him more too.

These are the stats though:

 

Dawson under Jos

Played 22 Conceded 40 Clean Sheets 1

Goals conceded per game 1.8

 

Dawson under Bruce/Agnew/Bullen

Played 4 Conceded 6 Clean Sheets 1

Goals Conceded per game 1.5

 

Westwood under Bruce/Agnew/Bullen

Played 19 Conceded 14 Clean Sheets 11

Goals conceded per game 0.7

 

So whilst he’s let in fewer than he was under Jos, it’s still more than double Westwood. And that’s not good enough for a team at the top of the league. Whilst we won’t find another Westwood we do need a keeper who gets somewhere close to his level of performance to compete

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

Always the keepers fault in those situations. Terrible goalkeeping. Did it again with Nuhiu in the second half too.

 

What Lees was trying to do with his header is another matter. That was also pants but it’s the keepers job to sort that out.

[Ian]

3 hours ago, Kagoshimaowl said:

Always the keepers fault in those situations. Terrible goalkeeping. Did it again with Nuhiu in the second half too.

 

What Lees was trying to do with his header is another matter. That was also pants but it’s the keepers job to sort that out.

It’s the keepers job to sort out that the centre half heads it in completely the opposite direction to what he meant to.........wow

[WORKSOP_OWL]

Dawson should have taken everything. Ball man and his family. 

 

I believe dawson did shout but the defence don’t trust him. 

 

On a another note.... Nuhiu....

 

when he scored pointing to his ear like he’s top man, shouldn’t be doing that and at end of game walking towards tunnel and not clapping fans... Bruce got him told. 

 

Watch what fessi and bannan did... that’s how you get fans to love you. 

 

Thanks Nuhiu... time to move on 

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

3 hours ago, Ian said:

It’s the keepers job to sort out that the centre half heads it in completely the opposite direction to what he meant to.........wow

No mate. It’s the keepers job to communicate early enough for the centre back to act. A good keeper, like Westwood, would have screamed and come and collected it. Lees wouldn’t have even gone for it. I’m not denying that it was poor by Lees too but if we are deflecting blame it is definitely Dawson’s fault. I’d be furious with my keeper in that situation and I only coach kids!

Edited April 28, 2019 by Kagoshimaowl

[Hack-Abusi]

 

Why Lees thought it best to head it there I don't know.

 

Dawson shouted and told Lees he did. All Lees fault that goal I'm afraid.

 

 

 

Just watched the replay.

 

Keepers fault 100%

 

Lees doesn’t know what’s behind him, he has to go for the ball. It’s pretty obvious the shout was too late.

 

 

No mate. It’s the keepers job to communicate early enough for the centre back to act. A good keeper, like Westwood, would have screamed and come and collected it. Lees wouldn’t have even gone for it. I’m not denying that it was poor by Lees too but if we are deflecting blame it is definitely Dawson’s fault. I’d be furious with my keeper in that situation and I only coach kids!

As the top post says .,.. Dawson screams for it, Lees, not sure what he's thinking to be honest, just heads it and its a flipping poor header at that as well, absolute tripe ...

 

You can see after Dawson berating him telling him that he called for it, Lees shrugs and admits he's wrong .. But nah f*ck it .. cos its Dawson, its all his fault .. ..

 

fml ...

 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Hack-Abusi

[Birley Owl 1867]

1 hour ago, Hack-Abusi said:

 

 

As the top post says .,.. Dawson screams for it, Lees, not sure what he's thinking to be honest, just heads it and its a flipping poor header at that as well, absolute tripe ...

 

You can see after Dawson berating him telling him that he called for it, Lees shrugs and admits he's wrong .. But nah f*ck it .. cos its Dawson, its all his fault .. ..

 

fml ...

 

 

Lees can't even look Dawson in the eye afterwards.

 

But no it's all Dawson's fault that.

 

Some people, eh.

[McRightSide]

1 hour ago, Hack-Abusi said:

 

 

As the top post says .,.. Dawson screams for it, Lees, not sure what he's thinking to be honest, just heads it and its a flipping poor header at that as well, absolute tripe ...

 

You can see after Dawson berating him telling him that he called for it, Lees shrugs and admits he's wrong .. But nah f*ck it .. cos its Dawson, its all his fault .. ..

 

fml ...

 

 

 

You can clearly see in the video the call is late. Look at how far the ball travels from the deflection and how far the ball is from Dawson once he makes a decisive move towards the ball.

 

And you also see Lees react to it - difference is he chooses not to openly berate his teammate. We also know Dawson likes to do this shouty thing at defenders

[Birley Owl 1867]

1 hour ago, McRightSide said:

 

You can clearly see in the video the call is late. Look at how far the ball travels from the deflection and how far the ball is from Dawson once he makes a decisive move towards the ball.

 

And you also see Lees react to it - difference is he chooses not to openly berate his teammate. We also know Dawson likes to do this shouty thing at defenders

You just don't have a clue do you.

 

He can't even look Dawson in the eye. What captain does that? If he wasn't in the wrong he'd have told Dawson. Whether that's a comment that Lees is a poor leader I'm not sure.

 

Westwood also does that shouty thing if you watch. As does every player in fact.

[Jim]

Over the last five seasons when Westwood has played most of the season, the goals against column reads somewhere in the 40s.

 

The last two seasons in particular where Westwood has played half the season if that the goals against column reads in the 60s.

 

For a side like ours that isn’t free scoring we need to be conceding around the 40s or preferably less to be around where we want to be in the table. This suggests keeping Westwood has to be the priority this summer.

 

If we go into next season with either Dawson or Wildsmith in goal then our chances of competing for a Top 6 place are slimmer than they would be if we had Westwood or a proven No 1.

 

That said if we can get 30-40 games out of Hutchinson or bring in a quality defensive midfielder then we might get away with having either Dawson or Wildsmith in goal?