Our Wage Bill

[Groundhopping Owl]

I've just read this piece on Ajax's achievements in Europe this season, which mentions that they have a wage bill less than several Championship clubs as well as Celtic:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/juventus-vs-ajax-result-final-score-goals-cristiano-ronaldo-watch-champions-league-highlights-a8873411.html

 

Surely I'm not alone in thinking that it's pretty likely that we are among those "richer Championship clubs" who spend more on wages than Ajax, or that we're at least in the same ball park? We've shelled out millions on the likes of Rhodes, Forestieri and Hooper (not forgetting David Jones' £1,000,000 per week), then stockpiled these expensive players, no matter how they poorly or infrequently they play. 

 

For me it just goes to show how much our whole structure needs re-orienting towards younger, better-value players, as well as the value in ploughing investment into youth development and infrastructure, which in fairness we've worked to improve.

 

This could well be the summer where we take a step towards that, depending on how much breathing room we can eek out of our FFP constraints. It's going to be a very interesting few months and it's up to DC and Bruce to work out how much differently we're able to do things, as we've been treading water for the last two seasons.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Groundhopping Owl

[room0035]

There are just 38 professional teams in Holland compared to 92 in the Uk not included the conference that many are all so full time teams. Ajax has a renound academy for producing young players and selling them on around Europe. This summer there will be probably another £100 - 200m of players sold with such teams as Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Madrid, Man Utd, Liverpool etc being linked with their players.

 

The catchment area for Ajax is huge in Holland - compare that to us within an hour of Sheffield we have all the Yorkshire teams, both Manchester and Liverpool teams and a lot of the east Midland teams such as Leicester to compete with for the young players

 

To put it simply comparing us to Ajax is like comparing a brick to cheese and saying cheese is a little bit soft for building houses with. 

 

We do need to start producing youth players but to do this we need to invest in good facilities, proper qualified coaches and start actual getting local lads to sign for SWFC instead of other teams. Look at what players have been produced and sold by those in S2 then compare that to us. 

 

We as a club could be ploughing millions into the youth set up as its all allowable costs for P&S but instead the current policy seem to be find other youth team cast off and try and make them into first team players.

[Sultan_Pepper]

2 hours ago, Groundhopping Owl said:

I've just read this piece on Ajax's achievements in Europe this season, which mentions that they have a wage bill less than several Championship clubs as well as Celtic:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/juventus-vs-ajax-result-final-score-goals-cristiano-ronaldo-watch-champions-league-highlights-a8873411.html

 

Surely I'm not alone in thinking that it's pretty likely that we are among those "richer Championship clubs" who spend more on wages than Ajax, or that we're at least in the same ball park? We've shelled out millions on the likes of Rhodes, Forestieri and Hooper (not forgetting David Jones' £1,000,000 per week), then stockpiled these expensive players, no matter how they poorly or infrequently they play. 

 

For me it just goes to show how much our whole structure needs re-orienting towards younger, better-value players, as well as the value in ploughing investment into youth development and infrastructure, which in fairness we've worked to improve.

 

This could well be the summer where we take a step towards that, depending on how much breathing room we can eek out of our FFP constraints. It's going to be a very interesting few months and it's up to DC and Bruce to work out how much differently we're able to do things, as we've been treading water for the last two seasons.

 

Completely agree with you that in the long term we need to structure and rethink the way we recruit and pay for players. Not just us actually but British football as a whole. The main blocker though is impatience and expectation from the fan base. Doing the right thing in the long term will end up with dog's abuse from the stands whereas spunking money up the wall on unnecessary signings like Rhodes and co will get the fans cheering and claiming we're going to be world beaters

[Groundhopping Owl]

3 hours ago, room0035 said:

There are just 38 professional teams in Holland compared to 92 in the Uk not included the conference that many are all so full time teams. Ajax has a renound academy for producing young players and selling them on around Europe. This summer there will be probably another £100 - 200m of players sold with such teams as Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Madrid, Man Utd, Liverpool etc being linked with their players.

 

The catchment area for Ajax is huge in Holland - compare that to us within an hour of Sheffield we have all the Yorkshire teams, both Manchester and Liverpool teams and a lot of the east Midland teams such as Leicester to compete with for the young players

 

To put it simply comparing us to Ajax is like comparing a brick to cheese and saying cheese is a little bit soft for building houses with. 

 

We do need to start producing youth players but to do this we need to invest in good facilities, proper qualified coaches and start actual getting local lads to sign for SWFC instead of other teams. Look at what players have been produced and sold by those in S2 then compare that to us. 

 

We as a club could be ploughing millions into the youth set up as its all allowable costs for P&S but instead the current policy seem to be find other youth team cast off and try and make them into first team players.

Oh I know the comparison between us and Ajax is pretty thin - my main point is it goes to show that money can be spent a lot more efficiently than we've done in DC's time. Ajax's circumstances are totally different to ours in terms of catchment area and stature etc, but the fact remains that if two clubs are spending roughly the same on wages and one gets to the European Cup semi-finals while the other is mid-table in the second tier, it's pretty strong proof that we need to re-think. The gap between us and Ajax is enormous, but they're the model we should aim at in terms of youth development and coaching (and hey, the style of play would make Saturday afternoons pretty enjoyable as well).

 

FFP's constraints on us are an undoubted ballache but my main hope is that they finally force us to become innovative in how we spend what we have - spending £8.5 million on Jordan Rhodes weeks after doing a far cheaper deal for Sam Winnall wasn't innovative and it's blown up in our faces. Spreading your bets on younger players gives you a better chance of hitting the jackpot than chucking all of it at a big name - when Huddersfield went up I'm pretty sure the most expensive player in their squad was Schindler at about £2 million.

[shezzas left peg]

4 hours ago, Groundhopping Owl said:

I've just read this piece on Ajax's achievements in Europe this season, which mentions that they have a wage bill less than several Championship clubs as well as Celtic:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/juventus-vs-ajax-result-final-score-goals-cristiano-ronaldo-watch-champions-league-highlights-a8873411.html

 

Surely I'm not alone in thinking that it's pretty likely that we are among those "richer Championship clubs" who spend more on wages than Ajax, or that we're at least in the same ball park? We've shelled out millions on the likes of Rhodes, Forestieri and Hooper (not forgetting David Jones' £1,000,000 per week), then stockpiled these expensive players, no matter how they poorly or infrequently they play. 

 

For me it just goes to show how much our whole structure needs re-orienting towards younger, better-value players, as well as the value in ploughing investment into youth development and infrastructure, which in fairness we've worked to improve.

 

This could well be the summer where we take a step towards that, depending on how much breathing room we can eek out of our FFP constraints. It's going to be a very interesting few months and it's up to DC and Bruce to work out how much differently we're able to do things, as we've been treading water for the last two seasons.

According to quite a few people on here. Youth development costs arnt covered in FFP, not sure weather scaouing network staff or youth staff are included or not, but it can be another key area where you can offset FFP by bringing youth in improving and selling on where necessary. 

They've been a bit sparce over the last few years, but I remember the Ajax youth academy being roundly regarded as the best in the world for years. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by shezzas left peg

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

4 hours ago, room0035 said:

There are just 38 professional teams in Holland compared to 92 in the Uk not included the conference that many are all so full time teams. Ajax has a renound academy for producing young players and selling them on around Europe. This summer there will be probably another £100 - 200m of players sold with such teams as Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Madrid, Man Utd, Liverpool etc being linked with their players.

 

The catchment area for Ajax is huge in Holland - compare that to us within an hour of Sheffield we have all the Yorkshire teams, both Manchester and Liverpool teams and a lot of the east Midland teams such as Leicester to compete with for the young players

 

To put it simply comparing us to Ajax is like comparing a brick to cheese and saying cheese is a little bit soft for building houses with. 

 

We do need to start producing youth players but to do this we need to invest in good facilities, proper qualified coaches and start actual getting local lads to sign for SWFC instead of other teams. Look at what players have been produced and sold by those in S2 then compare that to us. 

 

We as a club could be ploughing millions into the youth set up as its all allowable costs for P&S but instead the current policy seem to be find other youth team cast off and try and make them into first team players.

Both wrong you saw what happened last season when our lads took on Chelsea. That wasn't about development or facilities. It was about the top half dozen mopping up the best talent and paying them top Dollar. We do what we can with what we've got. I think all in all our youngsters have done well but they can't be rushed.   

[stevie snerklebox]

21 minutes ago, Groundhopping Owl said:

Oh I know the comparison between us and Ajax is pretty thin - my main point is it goes to show that money can be spent a lot more efficiently than we've done in DC's time. Ajax's circumstances are totally different to ours in terms of catchment area and stature etc, but the fact remains that if two clubs are spending roughly the same on wages and one gets to the European Cup semi-finals while the other is mid-table in the second tier, it's pretty strong proof that we need to re-think. The gap between us and Ajax is enormous, but they're the model we should aim at in terms of youth development and coaching (and hey, the style of play would make Saturday afternoons pretty enjoyable as well).

 

FFP's constraints on us are an undoubted ballache but my main hope is that they finally force us to become innovative in how we spend what we have - spending £8.5 million on Jordan Rhodes weeks after doing a far cheaper deal for Sam Winnall wasn't innovative and it's blown up in our faces. Spreading your bets on younger players gives you a better chance of hitting the jackpot than chucking all of it at a big name - when Huddersfield went up I'm pretty sure the most expensive player in their squad was Schindler at about £2 million.

I would suggest that the deals we did for Winnall & Rhodes were BOTH shocking. Ridiculous signings that simply weren't needed. We needed pace, width, and physical presence and we got nothing for the best part of £10.5m in transfer fees and sixty grand a week wages between those two chumps.

[Nero]

I  rarely ever tire of reading how easy running football clubs actually is, however comparing us with Ajax Amsterdaam is testing even my patience.

[Ian]

11 hours ago, room0035 said:

within an hour of Sheffield we have all the Yorkshire teams, both Manchester and Liverpool teams and a lot of the east Midland teams such as Leicester to compete with for the young players

Can you let me know which way you’d go to get to Liverpool in an hour.....in fact while you’re at it same with Manchester at any reasonable time of day!

[pat blondeau]

6 hours ago, Peacenocchio said:

I  rarely ever tire of reading how easy running football clubs actually is, however comparing us with Ajax Amsterdaam is testing even my patience.

 

The post never compared us to Ajax. Just the fact we’ve spunked a lot of cash on has beens and never beens rather than putting it into youth development.

 

We didn’t have a player on the pitch who was under 25 on Saturday and it showed. Compared to Leeds we looked short on legs

[Mystic Neg]

13 hours ago, stevie snerklebox said:

I would suggest that the deals we did for Winnall & Rhodes were BOTH shocking. Ridiculous signings that simply weren't needed. We needed pace, width, and physical presence and we got nothing for the best part of £10.5m in transfer fees and sixty grand a week wages between those two chumps.

I'd say its a bit harsh to call either of Winnall or Rhodes chumps. Remember the managers they played under who didn't believe in wingers? Give those 2 players good wingers and they will score goals. We may see it next season. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Mystic Neg

[RichSheffWeds]

13 hours ago, stevie snerklebox said:

I would suggest that the deals we did for Winnall & Rhodes were BOTH shocking. Ridiculous signings that simply weren't needed. We needed pace, width, and physical presence and we got nothing for the best part of £10.5m in transfer fees and sixty grand a week wages between those two chumps.

 

You are right about Rhodes.

 

But we picked up Winnall for next to nothing. He’d been banging goals in for fun in the championship even in a poor Barnsley side. And he was the right age to have a sell on value. 

 

We will probably get £2-3m for him now even though he has been injured or out of favour. 

 

I still think we have missed a trick with him. Is he the most talented ? No but he knows where the back of the net is. 

 

 

[Swiss Toni]

I think people WANT to go to Ajax. Their history says a lot about producing good young players.

 

Could the same be said about us? We need to get a few into the first team and then sold for big money before we can compete with the likes of Ajax.

[dobbo]

Ajax don't have a league of teams above them raking in hundreds of millions a year and dictating the out of control wage and agent fee demands.

[Mr. Chow]

Most of the players on big wages will more than likely be released or sold, we can't afford to keep them all, so the wage bill would realistly plumit. 

[pat blondeau]

Leeds will have a lower wage bill than us and comparing the ages of the players who played on Saturday in the two sides:

 

Casilla 32, Jansson 28, Phillips 23, Beradi 30, Ayling 27, Klich 28, Roberts 20, Alioski 27, Hernández 34, Bamford 25, Harrison 22, Forshaw 27, Roofe 26, Dallas 27

 

Leeds average age 26.9

 

Westwood 34, Palmer 27, Lees 28, Hector 26, Fox 25, Reach 26, Hutchison 29, Bannan 29, Boyd 33, Fletcher 32, Hooper 31, Matias 29, Nuhiu 29, Forestieri 29

 

Wednesday average age 29.1

 

Once Reach went off we didn’t have a midfielder or attacker on the field under 29. Sorting out this squad is going to be a big job for Brucey

[Groundhopping Owl]

19 hours ago, stevie snerklebox said:

I would suggest that the deals we did for Winnall & Rhodes were BOTH shocking. Ridiculous signings that simply weren't needed. We needed pace, width, and physical presence and we got nothing for the best part of £10.5m in transfer fees and sixty grand a week wages between those two chumps.

The Winnall signing turned out badly but there's no guarantee of any signing working out - I didn't think it was a bad piece of business at the time, signing a Championship striker in very good goalscoring form for half a million seemed pretty good value, it just made signing Rhodes just a week or so later even more pointless.

 

Forget the Ajax comparison as it seems to derail things - we just need to spend our money far more smartly than we have done if we want to get anywhere in one of the world's most cut-throat divisions. The Winnall deal didn't work out but I hope it doesn't put us off making more of those sorts of deals where we take advantage of expiring contracts, as value is what we need to find, the days where we can spunk millions on the likes of Rhodes and Abdi are long gone.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

44 minutes ago, nilsson said:

Leeds will have a lower wage bill than us and comparing the ages of the players who played on Saturday in the two sides:

 

Casilla 32, Jansson 28, Phillips 23, Beradi 30, Ayling 27, Klich 28, Roberts 20, Alioski 27, Hernández 34, Bamford 25, Harrison 22, Forshaw 27, Roofe 26, Dallas 27

 

Leeds average age 26.9

 

Westwood 34, Palmer 27, Lees 28, Hector 26, Fox 25, Reach 26, Hutchison 29, Bannan 29, Boyd 33, Fletcher 32, Hooper 31, Matias 29, Nuhiu 29, Forestieri 29

 

Wednesday average age 29.1

 

Once Reach went off we didn’t have a midfielder or attacker on the field under 29. Sorting out this squad is going to be a big job for Brucey

I don’t think their ages are that big a problem in itself. Ronaldo is 34 and Messi 31 and they’re still performing at the highest level. It’s only when you get to 35+ that the physicality might be too much, unless you’ve had injuries which tbf a lot of our players have.

 

Main issue is the lack of athleticism and pace, but that was an issue with this group of players 3 years ago when the average age was much younger. So it’s more that we have too many similar players than that they’re too old.

 

We should still look to bring in younger players as they have resale value though 

[pat blondeau]

6 hours ago, RichSheffWeds said:

 

You are right about Rhodes.

 

But we picked up Winnall for next to nothing. He’d been banging goals in for fun in the championship even in a poor Barnsley side. And he was the right age to have a sell on value. 

 

We will probably get £2-3m for him now even though he has been injured or out of favour. 

 

I still think we have missed a trick with him. Is he the most talented ? No but he knows where the back of the net is. 

 

 

 

Debatable whether Winnall would have fetched £2-3 million before his injury.

 

As it is he’s scored 10 goals in two and a half years since we signed him and hasn’t scored a goal since December 2017. No way would a club risk that kind of money on a player who could be crocked and finished at this level. If he comes back, looks sharp and scores goals before the end of the season then maybe but not right now 

[bobness]

3 hours ago, Junk Smuggler said:

Could the same be said about us? We need to get a few into the first team and then sold for big money before we can compete with the likes of Ajax.

 

Is that all we need to get done in order to compete with Ajax? FFS!