Birmingham immediate 9 point deduction..does it affect us?

[HarrowbyOwl]

50 minutes ago, Box_Man said:

Accounting period reset, and back onto a new 3 year cycle 

 

Would be astonished if that is the case. If it were, half the league would be turning themselves in and begging for points penalties - providing it didn't affect promotion hopes or relegation dangers.

It would amount to a punishment to those clubs struggling with P&S who can't reset.

[Stevelknievel]

9 points seems light in Birmingham’s case because they have nothing to play for, but imagine if it was someone in the top 6, or bottom 6, then it effectively says we won’t allow you promotion and we will relegate you. Having read sky sports it suggests they could get walloped a further deduction each year they breach it, so could get a deduction again next year, making it more serious.

 

For us it’s a little worrying for next year especially if we are doing well, although I don’t think it would be anything like 9 points in our case. The fact they signed someone under a soft embargo was classed as a wee wee take. 

 

Got it to remember it’s designed to deter others from doing it as well.

[The Regulator]

12 minutes ago, RichieB said:

Doesn't sound like it's reset and Brum can just spunk loads of money again in the summer to me....

 

Sky Sports News understands Birmingham will remain with an "Imposed Business Plan" for the remainder of this season, which means they have to share and discuss all significant financial dealings with the EFL.

It is understood the club are not now under a 'soft embargo' and they will not face a transfer window ban this summer, but discussions about the future will continue with the EFL.

 

Birmingham, like all clubs, will have to publish their annual accounts later this year, and if they fall foul of the permissible £39m losses over the previous three years again, they may face further punishment

 

In which case I hope their imposed business plan makes provision for fighting the EFL in court. Do legal expenses count towards FFP losses?

[VBQ24]

No worries, Chansiri is on the phone to the EFL as we speak sorting out our points deduction. Clean slate next year. 

 

[HarrowbyOwl]

2 minutes ago, The Regulator said:

 

In which case I hope their imposed business plan makes provision for fighting the EFL in court. Do legal expenses count towards FFP losses?

Doubt they'd want to fight it in court. They probably feel they've got off quite lightly.

 

The points deduction is decided by a Disciplinary Commission. The rules state this consists of:

·         A chairperson (who must be either a qualified solicitor or barrister; or a ‘member’ or ‘fellow’ of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators)

·         two suitably qualified ‘side members’, one selected by the Claimant (The League) and the other by the Respondent (the club).

 

Each commission is assembled on a case by case basis, i.e. its not a standing body of the EFL

[HarrowbyOwl]

3 minutes ago, VBQ24 said:

No worries, Chansiri is on the phone to the EFL as we speak sorting out our points deduction. Clean slate next year. 

 

Phones will be engaged with every other b*gger trying to do the same thing

[Stevelknievel]

Right, the most points you can get in a season is 138 points, and you def win it with 100. Does anyone know the maximum number of points the EFL can deduct? I reackon 20.

 

Basically we just need to keep buying players until we get enough points to cover the deduction(s) plus 100 points and we are in EPL. 

 

 

[HarrowbyOwl]

5 minutes ago, Stevelknievel said:

Right, the most points you can get in a season is 138 points, and you def win it with 100. Does anyone know the maximum number of points the EFL can deduct? I reackon 20.

 

Basically we just need to keep buying players until we get enough points to cover the deduction(s) plus 100 points and we are in EPL. 

 

 

If only.

There's no fixed limit on number of points that can be deducted and basically unlimited 'other' penalties.

 

A Commission may issue a decision to:

·         order a party to do or refrain from doing anything;

·         order a specific performance;

·         make a declaration on any matter to be determined;

·         issue a reprimand or warning as to the future conduct of a party;

·         order the payment of compensation to The League, any Club, any other club, Player or other person;

·         order a suspension of membership of The League;

·         order a deduction of points;

·         impose a financial penalty payable to The League;

·         recommend expulsion from membership of The League;

·         order a withdrawal or loss of benefit otherwise available to members of The League e.g. basic award or ladder payment;

·         impose an embargo on registration of Players;

·         order any other sanction as the Disciplinary Commission may think fit; and

·         order that interest be payable on any sums awarded under this Regulation for such period and at such rates as the Disciplinary Commission thinks fit.

[Hirstys Salopettes]

I presume that the signing of Iorfa and the loans of Aarron and Lazarr was ratified by the EFL (although we were out of the soft embargo at the time). 

 

With so many players out of contract in the summer, and us observing the soft embargo and taking measures like loaning Rhodes out, I think we are a different case to Birmingham. 

 

The worry is is that the Birmingham deduction is due to the overspend and not the breaching of the embargo.  We are likely to be guilty of the former, but not the latter.

 

of course the whole playing field is skewed by the parachute payments.  

 

[Birley Owl 1867]

It's definitely not reset.

 

They are free to buy in the summer but if break the rules again (personally think it will he upped from 39m over 3 to about 54m over 3) they'll be punished again.

[Pablo Bonvin]

27 minutes ago, VBQ24 said:

No worries, Chansiri is on the phone to the EFL as we speak sorting out our points deduction. Clean slate next year. 

 

I bet that two hat blunt who complains regularly about D taxis etc has also been in touch...... anyone know who he/She is?

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

What a surprise at this "punishment" - if the financial button really is reset.

 

That must signal to Mr Chansiri - and all other ambitious owners in the division - to get the cheque book open in the summer and aim to buy promotion.

 

 

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

44 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said:

If only.

There's no fixed limit on number of points that can be deducted and basically unlimited 'other' penalties.

 

A Commission may issue a decision to:

·         order a party to do or refrain from doing anything;

·         order a specific performance;

·         make a declaration on any matter to be determined;

·         issue a reprimand or warning as to the future conduct of a party;

·         order the payment of compensation to The League, any Club, any other club, Player or other person;

·         order a suspension of membership of The League;

·         order a deduction of points;

·         impose a financial penalty payable to The League;

·         recommend expulsion from membership of The League;

·         order a withdrawal or loss of benefit otherwise available to members of The League e.g. basic award or ladder payment;

·         impose an embargo on registration of Players;

·         order any other sanction as the Disciplinary Commission may think fit; and

·         order that interest be payable on any sums awarded under this Regulation for such period and at such rates as the Disciplinary Commission thinks fit.

 

A precedent has been set for future cases now though. Birmingham and another club can't be punished differently for breaching the same rules!

[keepitsteel89]

 are we holding back our account as long as possible? 

 

Starting to get a bad feeling about this. If they have 9 points taken. I can't see us getting away with a slap on the wrist, looks like there setting some serious president's on their ridiculous rules, there's alot of money in football, I'm sure many a pocket has been filled in a nice quiet place

[sherlyegg]

Well it's taken 3-months to get this far..some may think, I wonder if they waited to see where they are in the league before making the decision. It was reported the EFL were pushing for a 12pt deduction yonks ago. Seems the disciplinary panel didn't agree...though there was only 3 of em and one of them represented Birmingham.

So if we are inline for similar treatment they have no foookin chance of doing us this season  (big problems next season if we don't go up somebody said ) 

 

[Swiss Toni]

6 minutes ago, keepitsteel89 said:

 are we holding back our account as long as possible? 

 

Starting to get a bad feeling about this. If they have 9 points taken. I can't see us getting away with a slap on the wrist, looks like there setting some serious president's on their ridiculous rules, there's alot of money in football, I'm sure many a pocket has been filled in a nice quiet place

 

Bramhall Lane?!

[simpark]

1 hour ago, RichieB said:

Doesn't sound like it's reset and Brum can just spunk loads of money again in the summer to me....

 

Sky Sports News understands Birmingham will remain with an "Imposed Business Plan" for the remainder of this season, which means they have to share and discuss all significant financial dealings with the EFL.

It is understood the club are not now under a 'soft embargo' and they will not face a transfer window ban this summer, but discussions about the future will continue with the EFL.

 

Birmingham, like all clubs, will have to publish their annual accounts later this year, and if they fall foul of the permissible £39m losses over the previous three years again, they may face further punishment

 

This points deduction is specifically for breaching the embargo they were under the summer by signing a player - they still have to abide by the P&S rules and haven't had the slate wiped clean

[sherlyegg]

6 minutes ago, keepitsteel89 said:

are we holding back our account as long as possible? 

They already have our accounts..

I reckon we could be on -6 next season...if we are still around

2 minutes ago, Junk Smuggler said:

looks like there setting some serious president's

He's quite serious old Trumpy.

 

Even if we start next season on -9 we could still make the play-offs

 

3 minutes ago, simpark said:

 

This points deduction is specifically for breaching the embargo they were under the summer by signing a player - they still have to abide by the P&S rules and haven't had the slate wiped clean

' Birmingham City have been handed an immediate nine-point deduction by the EFL for breaching Profitability and Sustainability rules'

They got off with signing a player while under embargo....even though the EFL were 'extremely disappointed' they signed a player...which has confused everyone..

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

I like how the Football League have made the punishment soft enough that they're safe from relegation

 

And by handing the punishment out this year, knowing they can't go up or down means it's not punishment at all

 

 

[Quist]

Interesting what it says about no more action over this issue. If it has wiped slate clean the 9 pt deduction will have been worthwhile exercise. It would seem barmy a club who was put under similar embargo followed advice to letter and still has to be careful for next couple of years. A team given same advice brings in player so clearly breaks rules, receives a points deduction which makes no material difference to club in they were not going to get promotion and will be not be relegated and if it clears the previous debt problem this looks to be a good move. It is difficult to see how any future profitability will be examined, it is supposed to be over 3 years the debt was such it would have meant they would be still in breach at end of this season. 

 

How does a points deduction equate with debt. the player they brought in has been a regular and who knows may have gained them an extra 9 points or more as they only have small squad. I actually think they are making this up as they go along.

 

Think this further illustrates the P & S is not fit for purpose.