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tarn owl

Training ground value/injuries

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The hot topic at the minute seems to be injuries and how to solve the issue. The training ground and facilities at our training ground keep coming up. Whether it being Chris Turner saying the pitches are too hard or that we don't have enough pitches. A quick look on Google maps confirms we are not a wash with space. Now forgive me for not visiting the training ground often so not being fully aware of just how central to the Hillsborough and quite a built up area the training ground is, but it does seem to be in quite the central location and so potentially good value land. Certainly land which a Tesco or housing developer might be very interested in. So with Sheffield not exactly being Manhattan and with quite a bit of land available we could develop a whole new academy and training facility on much cheaper land out of the middle of Sheffield just next to maybe the M1.

 

For examples i looked at other clubs. Those across the city have their academy in the north of Sheffield despite their ground being in the north. But it is still in a built up area. So i looked further a field at maybe what the bigger clubs do. On the train down to London when coming into Kings Cross you look at Arsenals ground and it couldn't be in a more built up area if you tried. Yet their training ground is right next to the M25 on the most north part possible to be still classed within London i guess, looks next to Farmers fields and not much else.

 

Now granted my research came to a grinding halt there, but if we have had injuries for years, which have never improved, we don't have much room and the land we have is actually worth something to housing developers, then sell up and build something special in the countryside on much cheaper land. Yes it will cost money, but with FFP if he wants to invest money on transfers but can't then now is the time to spend on this and then hopefully they will provide youngsters we can sell for a fortune and keep good players fit who can be sold on for a pretty fee. If Fessi had been fit over the last couple of years how much might he be worth? There are lots of plus points for doing this in my eyes. What do we think?

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The training ground is cursed. I drove past this morning and the security bloke has put his back out opening the barrier to let Bruce in. He will be  Back at work  in two weeks.

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I heard the tea lady scalded herself 

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I suppose it all comes down to cost.

 

We know its too small and if we want to get to Grade 1 academy or whatever the elite is we need more pitches and better facilities which means a new training ground as there is simply not the scope to do it where it is.

 

I see your point about the location close to the ground and this is something I would look to keep relative but we will have to go further a field than it is currently. Surely there must be some land that is viable near junction 35/36. Not as close as middlewood but not too far away from hillsborough.

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Can someone enlighten me how a training complex that is deemed too small gives everyone long term injuries ?

 

Has everyone forgot about mud bath pitches and training in the local park just a few decades ago ?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tarn owl said:

The hot topic at the minute seems to be injuries and how to solve the issue. The training ground and facilities at our training ground keep coming up. Whether it being Chris Turner saying the pitches are too hard or that we don't have enough pitches. A quick look on Google maps confirms we are not a wash with space. Now forgive me for not visiting the training ground often so not being fully aware of just how central to the Hillsborough and quite a built up area the training ground is, but it does seem to be in quite the central location and so potentially good value land. Certainly land which a Tesco or housing developer might be very interested in. So with Sheffield not exactly being Manhattan and with quite a bit of land available we could develop a whole new academy and training facility on much cheaper land out of the middle of Sheffield just next to maybe the M1.

 

For examples i looked at other clubs. Those across the city have their academy in the north of Sheffield despite their ground being in the north. But it is still in a built up area. So i looked further a field at maybe what the bigger clubs do. On the train down to London when coming into Kings Cross you look at Arsenals ground and it couldn't be in a more built up area if you tried. Yet their training ground is right next to the M25 on the most north part possible to be still classed within London i guess, looks next to Farmers fields and not much else.

 

Now granted my research came to a grinding halt there, but if we have had injuries for years, which have never improved, we don't have much room and the land we have is actually worth something to housing developers, then sell up and build something special in the countryside on much cheaper land. Yes it will cost money, but with FFP if he wants to invest money on transfers but can't then now is the time to spend on this and then hopefully they will provide youngsters we can sell for a fortune and keep good players fit who can be sold on for a pretty fee. If Fessi had been fit over the last couple of years how much might he be worth? There are lots of plus points for doing this in my eyes. What do we think?

We don't own it , Sheffield Council are freeholders so you can't sell without their permission (or giving bunce).

 

And to buy their freeholds , they have to be put to a public tender / auction (how Dave Allen bought Owlerton dog track freehold, beating Ken Bates at auction for £2million).

 

Plus, in planning terms, its in an area like Green Belt so only suitable for sports / leisure and that's why planning for housing refused in the past.

 

Of course, that helps when buying a new site if in green belt too as will have minimal land value (ex Norton aerodrome for example which is about 50 acres - against ,  what, 12 at Middlewood). 

 

One way to fund would be for Chansiri to sell fans some voting shares. Would also help Brucey and increase size of Owls family. 

Edited by fred mciver
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1 hour ago, fred mciver said:

We don't own it , Sheffield Council are freeholders so you can't sell without their permission (or giving bunce).

 

And to buy their freeholds , they have to be put to a public tender / auction (how Dave Allen bought Owlerton dog track freehold, beating Ken Bates at auction for £2million).

 

Plus, in planning terms, its in an area like Green Belt so only suitable for sports / leisure and that's why planning for housing refused in the past.

 

Of course, that helps when buying a new site if in green belt too as will have minimal land value (ex Norton aerodrome for example which is about 50 acres - against ,  what, 12 at Middlewood). 

 

One way to fund would be for Chansiri to sell fans some voting shares. Would also help Brucey and increase size of Owls family. 

Well there you go that covers most of my interested wonderings perfectly. I would still give it back to Sheffield Council and go build our own. Not in green belt. There must be somewhere we can stick 4 pitches on in Sheffield. Sure this will never happen knowing Wednesday but you never know.

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1 hour ago, the monk said:

Can someone enlighten me how a training complex that is deemed too small gives everyone long term injuries ?

 

Has everyone forgot about mud bath pitches and training in the local park just a few decades ago ?

I think it is progress. Better complex for training, recovery and treatment. Like hospitals needing new kit and equipment and building new wings for new areas. Man City have more staff than players, they also have too much money so not saying we should be the same, but maybe just improve and follow the times.

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5 minutes ago, tarn owl said:

Well there you go that covers most of my interested wonderings perfectly. I would still give it back to Sheffield Council and go build our own. Not in green belt. There must be somewhere we can stick 4 pitches on in Sheffield. Sure this will never happen knowing Wednesday but you never know.

Think we need a few more than 4. If were building a new one we need to do it properly so id say 4 astro pitches and 6 grass would be minimum.

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Posted (edited)

The training ground is not on green belt land.  It failed at planning last time round due to Asda wanting to build a superstore on site (plus some housing) it was rejected on the grounds of impacting the shops in Hillsborough. 

Sheffield-Green-Belt.svg

Edited by oakowl
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On 08/03/2019 at 17:18, oakowl said:

The training ground is not on green belt land.  It failed at planning last time round due to Asda wanting to build a superstore on site (plus some housing) it was rejected on the grounds of impacting the shops in Hillsborough. 

Sheffield-Green-Belt.svg

'...like green belt.' If you want exact planning designation, it's open space land suitable only for leisure or sports activities , not redevelopment.

 

Before ASDA application, Dave Allen tried to get just housing circa 2001 and this was rejected for above open space reasons.

 

Similarly, Norton Aerodrome is mostly in green belt and this would make an idea new training ground, relatively cheap.

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On the face of it blaming the training pitch for injuries seems a bit over the top.  Is there any evidence to back this claim up from other sources?  Seems a desperate attempt to find something to blame for the sake of it.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

On the face of it blaming the training pitch for injuries seems a bit over the top.  Is there any evidence to back this claim up from other sources?  Seems a desperate attempt to find something to blame for the sake of it.

 

 

 

Think this is right. If the clubs on going problems with injuries was as simple as too hard pitches at the training ground it would have been solved years ago.

 

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Wasn't we looking at doing something with the old Presto site or did I dream that

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Havent we enquired about buying the cricket fields from Niagara but council knocked back plans to build a bridge between the two sites ? 

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If we are to move to a new location for our training ground, we need to ensure it’s easy to get to for your ordinary folk (such as you and me) to get to. Some sites are great but are miles away or hard to get to, for example, the HSBC Sports Ground at Whirlow or the Aurora Sports Ground at Tinsley/Brinsworth. Both have great potential to be training grounds but would be 5h1t for the tea lady, the kit man and maintenance people to get to. 

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On 08/03/2019 at 12:30, tarn owl said:

The hot topic at the minute seems to be injuries and how to solve the issue. The training ground and facilities at our training ground keep coming up. Whether it being Chris Turner saying the pitches are too hard or that we don't have enough pitches. A quick look on Google maps confirms we are not a wash with space. Now forgive me for not visiting the training ground often so not being fully aware of just how central to the Hillsborough and quite a built up area the training ground is, but it does seem to be in quite the central location and so potentially good value land. Certainly land which a Tesco or housing developer might be very interested in. So with Sheffield not exactly being Manhattan and with quite a bit of land available we could develop a whole new academy and training facility on much cheaper land out of the middle of Sheffield just next to maybe the M1.

 

For examples i looked at other clubs. Those across the city have their academy in the north of Sheffield despite their ground being in the north. But it is still in a built up area. So i looked further a field at maybe what the bigger clubs do. On the train down to London when coming into Kings Cross you look at Arsenals ground and it couldn't be in a more built up area if you tried. Yet their training ground is right next to the M25 on the most north part possible to be still classed within London i guess, looks next to Farmers fields and not much else.

 

Now granted my research came to a grinding halt there, but if we have had injuries for years, which have never improved, we don't have much room and the land we have is actually worth something to housing developers, then sell up and build something special in the countryside on much cheaper land. Yes it will cost money, but with FFP if he wants to invest money on transfers but can't then now is the time to spend on this and then hopefully they will provide youngsters we can sell for a fortune and keep good players fit who can be sold on for a pretty fee. If Fessi had been fit over the last couple of years how much might he be worth? There are lots of plus points for doing this in my eyes. What do we think?

Derby's training ground is at Morley hayes which is quite a bit away from the ground.I'm not spying or owt

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4 hours ago, Mycroft said:

On the face of it blaming the training pitch for injuries seems a bit over the top.  Is there any evidence to back this claim up from other sources?  Seems a desperate attempt to find something to blame for the sake of it.

 

 

I would be looking into the deso pitch,

 

Pre Deso good team with very few injuries post Deso most of the team have been injured at some point or another and biggest cause of injuries seem to be joint related.

 

As for Abdi you would have to get him on a pitch to injury him, I heard lifting his wallet with all the money he has fleeced off us for the last 2 years pulled his back out and he could be out for the season. :Sid: 

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On 08/03/2019 at 16:18, oakowl said:

The training ground is not on green belt land.  It failed at planning last time round due to Asda wanting to build a superstore on site (plus some housing) it was rejected on the grounds of impacting the shops in Hillsborough. 

Sheffield-Green-Belt.svg

Yet they allowed Sainsbury’s to build on Claywheels Lane, about the same distance away. That’s Sheffield City Council for you. 

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16 minutes ago, room0035 said:

I would be looking into the deso pitch,

 

Pre Deso good team with very few injuries post Deso most of the team have been injured at some point or another and biggest cause of injuries seem to be joint related.

 

As for Abdi you would have to get him on a pitch to injury him, I heard lifting his wallet with all the money he has fleeced off us for the last 2 years pulled his back out and he could be out for the season. :Sid: 

According to this report from Wolves it may depend on which Desso it is?

 

It’s better for injuries. The original (Desso) pitches were renowned for being hard, like astro turf, but the particle size has got larger and they’ve changed the sand so it’s more forgiving on the limbs and softer than it used to be.

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